I've owned a 2nd gen and now my 2019. The 2nd gen was a nice car for it's time; luxury and good ride. I'd say the 2019 is all that plus better styling. Face it, the older Avalons look pretty boring on the outside. The current models are sportier and have the performance to go with it.

 

I've never owned an Avalon before my 2019 Limited V-6, and I love this car. The Gen 5 Avalon really REQUIRES a test drive, if you owned a previous generation to determine is you'll either love it or not. It has what most consider to be polarizing looks, great overall quality, legendary Toyota reliability, but is missing a few (possibly minor, depending on your specific needs) things that previous generations had as far as options (adjustable thigh support, lockable glove compartment, sun glass holder, folding rearview mirrors). For me, the 360 degree around view cameras are worth the loss of all the "missing" stuff above.

It also has distinctly different models, especially between the Limited and Touring, and the Hybrid versus the V-6 powertrains.

IMO, test drive(s) required!

 

Yeah, this car definitely looks polarizing, LOL. I can live without folding mirrors (never folded them anyway) and sun glasses holder, small price to pay for otherwise great car. It is funny you mentioned non-lockable glove compartment, people were complaining about it for years on some older Avalons. I guess Toyota wants us to trust people and to be more "open"😀

 

I haven't owned gen 4 or older Avalons, but here is good comparison between pre-TNGA and today, it's referring to the Camry but same principles for the Avalon. Comfort is subjective, what is comfortable for you might not be for others, and vice versa. And what is soft and seemingly more comfortable for short drives, might be unsupportive for longer ones. As others have said, it is best to test drive one yourself and see if the ride and ergonomics work for you, keeping in mind there is 1" difference in sidewall between the 17" and 19" factory wheels. In regards to the JBL, it is significantly better than the JBL from my 2005 Camry, a little better than the Harmon Kardon's of BMW 325 and X1 I had (both JBL and Harmon Kardon are now owned by Samsung), not as good as Mark Levinson or B&O I've heard in various cars, here is a nice article on the JBL for Avalon where the press compared it to the 2016 Avalon, I thought the last sentence quoted below is interesting:

Demonstrations inside the 2016 Avalon revealed the final results of this collaborative engineering effort. Based on a subjective listening experience, the team has achieved its targets. The quality of sound reproduction inside Avalon rivals premium audio systems in luxury competitors, with brilliant fidelity, musicality and tone. Even high volume levels can’t rattle the system, with no noticeable distortion or lack of clarity. While the effectiveness of Clari-Fi is more apparent with low-resolution source material, it doesn’t interfere with listening pleasure when the source material is of high-resolution and quality. Response to Quantum Logic Surround is a matter of taste. It can sound great on some material, horrible on others — it really depends on what you’re listening to, and how you want to experience it.

 

I haven't owned gen 4 or older Avalons, but here is good comparison between pre-TNGA and today, it's referring to the Camry but same principles for the Avalon. Comfort is subjective, what is comfortable for you might not be for others, and vice versa. And what is soft and seemingly more comfortable for short drives, might be unsupportive for longer ones. As others have said, it is best to test drive one yourself and see if the ride and ergonomics work for you, keeping in mind there is 1" difference in sidewall between the 17" and 19" factory wheels. In regards to the JBL, it is significantly better than the JBL from my 2005 Camry, a little better than the Harmon Kardon's of BMW 325 and X1 I had (both JBL and Harmon Kardon are now owned by Samsung), not as good as Mark Levinson or B&O I've heard in various cars, here is a nice article on the JBL for Avalon where the press compared it to the 2016 Avalon.

Very interesting. Thanks

 

My impression is that the driving position is less straight up than the previous generations and I'm so glad. I dislike driving suvs for just that reason: it's so straight up I feel like I'm driving a bus. I like the current Avalon somewhat more reclined driving position.

 

If anything it’s the grill that is polarizing, just as it is with today’s Lexus’.

 

My first Avalon was the last of the second gen (2004) and I had it until last year. My parents had a 3rd gen (2006) and now have two 4th gen (2016 XLE and 2017 Limited). I have to say what I dislike most about the current generation is the move to exposed trunk lid arms. The prior generations sacrificed a little space to put the arms behind/inside the flocked platic side panels inside the trunk. I find I'm always crushing things under the trunk lid arms in the current generation. This was impossible to do before. I really hate this particular design change. On an unrelated note, it's also a little more awkward to enter and exit the front seats.

 

I can see the possibility of things getting into the arm enclosures, especially moisture, maybe they discontinued this for long-term reliability reasons. I do like how they switched to the spring/strut setup versus the ugly torsion bars that run across the top of the trunk area, and the strut itself is positioned deep inside to protect it against weather, albeit at the cost of some room. My issue with the trunk is that the lid does not have any inside grab handles, so I find people grabbing the open lid from the outside bottom edge, ensuring over time that the paint will get scratches there (I can't find any paint protection film for this area).

 

I've owned 6 Avlons and less the tech, loved everything about the earlier years.

More roomy
As quiet off not more
More comfortable seats
Smoother ride
Loved the rear reclining seats and trunk space

I and a few others like the looks of the older ones, as for a luxury car. the new looks are nice, but in a cool sporty way.

Oh, in my opinion

 

You need to test drive it.
Personally I have no love for the gen 5 exterior and center stack trampoline, but the new Any comes with a few nice toys and interior materials are improved in some areas (and unfortunately declined in others), however imo all these things can't counter balance a civic like low driving position and more difficult ingress-egress. I still think the gen 2 was the best Avalon for its time, gen 3 - the second best and the gen 4 takes the bronze.

 

I had a 4th gen (2014) and purchased a 2019 LTD about a year ago. The upgrade to the 5th Gen (2019) feels substantial to me and my only complaint is the head rest appears designed to reduce a neck injury in an accident, but is too far forward for my liking. Performance is excellent and I find myself using SPORT mode very often as it's just FUN to drive with the added response. CarPlay was a must for me and while toyota is still a laggard with infotainment, they've at least taken a baby step towards an improvement there. Still slow and laggy but the large screen is great with my WAZE app or others too. Style is subjective but I've grown to like the grill (though was SHOCKED when I first saw it). Love the side profile and rear view. I have about 12K on it now and mileage is GOOD but not great. If I wanted great would have gotten a Prius. I prefer to Oooomph of the V6 as I mentioned. I really like the ventilated seats and perforated leather. Did I mention what I love most is the VALUE. Thanks to all the SUV buyers you can buy an AVALON for less than a Camry in many markets and the incentives they were offering for Avalon along with Loyalty were near obscene. Makes me feel like I can always get my equity out of this car since it was so heavily discounted on the front end by the dealer and Toyota Corporate. Love the Lexus but wouldn't pay the money when I was able to buy this car at a great price (around 31.6K Pre-TTL). I also like that you don't see many on the road.........My other car is a CR-V and you see about 100 of those on a trip to the grocery store.

 

The 5th gen Avalon Limited is a bold improvement over previous years. My first was a 2008 in blizzard pearl. Cruising on 95 was always a smooth experience. Im finding the JBL system on the '19 is much better than the JBL Synthesis.
The new Avy is sustantial in performance in every sense. Im not to fond of the headrest positions, and thats my only dislike. Ive tried measuring car for car and i find each one has its merits.

 

I find it very comfortable. My prior Avy was a 2000. I normally keep cars at least 15 years but I didn't see any need to get a new one until the 2019 came out and I finally found a reason to change and get all the electronic goodies the 2000 didn't have. The only major complaint I have is never drive in ECO mode. The hesitation trying to take off from a hard stop is aggravating. If you want ECO do it on a highway at 75. I fluctuate between the two but generally run in Normal mode. The seats are very comfortable, the inside of the Limited looks great. The ride is soft and very comfortable. I get 35, maybe a bit more, on long highway drives, whether doing 60 or 80. I get 23/24 in city only driving. My 2000 cost over the years was zip and I expect the 2019 to be the same. Toyota just makes a good car.

 

More than anything, I wonder what we'll buy once they stop making this fine car. While the ES seems like the next best option, for reasons of costs and maintenance cost 9Higher labor rates and all), I don't think many folks will make that leap?

 

The price markup on ES is INSANE. I looked at them about a month ago.
Currently, basic 2022 model with no leather and really BAD stereo is prices at 54,000. After intense negotiation they offered it to me for 48,500, which would mean approximately 53,500 OTD. It was considered "a good deal".
ES 350 Luxury with nice leather and ML stereo is available for a whooping 59,000. Even if they do come down on it, it will certainly end up at least 60,000 OTD!
Compare it to Avalon, and you will see why its not going to be a good replacement. Basically the same car with "L" up front for extra 20,000 dollars.

 

Unless Toyota cancels the Lexus ES350, once the parts shortages disappear I think the dealer markups will also go away and discounts will emerge again if they want to continue selling it. Although the ES350 is one of the few remaining sedans, there are other options in the $50,000 to $60,000 range that are more appealing to many people, as well as EVs.

 

Even without price markup it doesn’t make any sense. MSRP on Luxury is 53,000. That alone is 10,000 over MSRP of a comparable Limited. This is 10,000 dollars too much, IMHO.

 

My wife had a 2003 Avalon. It was nicer than the current stuff. Better materials of construction. It drove floaty and had a smooth ride. I've got a 21 Avalon and it's faster and cooler. Materials are not as good and the ride is stiffer and not as smooth. It drives way better though. The current Avalon is a nice car and I prefer it to the Lexus from a functionality of cabin perspective. If you can get AWD do that. I got a 21 touring for a few grand off, in this market I took it.

 

Were you able to try a Limited, @rahimler54 ? I get the shortage thing, but I wonder if you’d have been happier with the Limited than your Touring. Just curious.

I chose the Limited for those reasons you cited: better interior materials, more compliant ride, more comfort content. I also really, really didn’t want any complex adaptive suspension or piped-in exhaust sounds.

But I bought my 2020 before the shortages kicked into high gear, so maybe the Touring was all you had to choose from.

 

Were you able to try a Limited, @rahimler54 ? I get the shortage thing, but I wonder if you’d have been happier with the Limited than your Touring. Just curious.

I chose the Limited for those reasons you cited: better interior materials, more compliant ride, more comfort content. I also really, really didn’t want any complex adaptive suspension or piped-in exhaust sounds.

But I bought my 2020 before the shortages kicked into high gear, so maybe the Touring was all you had to choose from.

I figured I should have tried the limited but only one or 2 in the state. The touring was around 6 or 7k off the price of those limited. I vote with my wallet haha. Overall I like the touring, it's nice and alot more fun than any of my other cars. I also like the hud and the exterior look of the touring. I'm hoping the suspension holds out, the tnga plat has made the cars way better driving.

 

On the subject:
Back in 2014 I rented Avalon XLE for a week, drove 1000 miles on it. It was a brand new model, maybe 5000 miles on it.
I loved this car. This is the reason I got Avalon this time! However, I got XSE Nightshade.
My impression:
1. Definitely stiffer ride on 2021 XSE. But it does drive better IN SPORT MODE. More control, faster acceleration. I wasn’t happy with how oversensitive highway steering was on 2014 car. My wife drove it and said the same thing - “it felt shifty”. But soft and smooth, especially in the city.
2. Materials were betterNice black leather seats. XSE has Softex, which is not bad, but I’d probably prefer leather.
3. Stereo- it’s been 7 years, so it’s hard to compare, but I am happy with JBL and I was happy with whatever stereo it had too. So the same.

Granted, I can’t compare it to current year XLE or Limited, so it’s not exactly the same to the same.

 

I really like the ride from my '21 XSE, but I've never been one for "cushy" Cadillac rides.
After my '69 Buick, I drove a '69 Camaro, '76 Datsun P/U, '67 Chevelle, '88 Topaz, '91 Escort, '94 Toyota P/U, Tundra, Silverado, Blazer, Suburban, Tacoma, and Corolla
"Covered Wagon" is to me not an uncomfortable ride.
I'm happy that the Avalon can take a speed bump without me looking for a kidney belt.

 

You maybe right about the headroom for the 2019 at 37.4". I did my research on the 2019 Avalon three years ago, and as of today, when I tried to verify the numbers I recorded, I can't find the source of my 38.5" headroom, everything I am seeing today about the 2019 also says 37.4" I also noticed another discrepancy in the clearance I recorded as 5.5" while other sources show 5.3".

I was consolidating the various measurements from a wide source of reports, car magazines, etc so it is very possible I screwed up.

 

I wish Avalon headroom was 38.5". Would make a huge improvement in seat position comfort. Only reason I noticed is I have been looking at new cars lately, including the 2022 Avalon Hybrid Limited.

Sort of in this topic, I noticed also that although the 2022 Avalon does not have rain sensing wipers, the 2022 Lexus ES300h does. This may sway me to buy a Lexus instead of an Avalon, unless I decide to buy something other than those two cars.

 

If you don’t like the latest Avalon and want a bit more than 4th Gen. Then get the 2016 year Lexus ES with all the options. ML audio, rear heated seats, Lexus safety system +, semi aniline leather, power Trunk, passenger memory seats. I have one, very nice car.

 

Since 1999, all of our cars (except the Z4) were SUVs, minivans, or hatch backs. The problem with all is that our luggage is visible. My backpack itself has several thousands of dollars of tech gear.

My wife and I travel most weekends, so when we stop to eat, we have been restricted to places we can see the car (ex McDonalds). We also couldn’t explore enroute. Pulling the luggage cover doesn’t work because it advertises “something to steal below”.

My biggest reason for buying an Avalon was to have a trunk.

My first and only other Avalon was a gen1 1995. I went shopping for a Camry and bought the Avalon instead. It was a great car. That’s probably why I looked for an Avalon again in 2019 when I was craving a trunk again.

 

Since 1999, all of our cars (except the Z4) were SUVs, minivans, or hatch backs. The problem with all is that our luggage is visible. My backpack itself has several thousands of dollars of tech gear.

My wife and I travel most weekends, so when we stop to eat, we have been restricted to places we can see the car (ex MacDonalds). We also couldn’t explore enroute. Pulling the luggage cover doesn’t work because it advertises “something to steal below”.

My biggest reason for buying an Avalon was to have a trunk.

My first and only other Avalon was a gen1 1995. I went shopping for a Camry and bought the Avalon instead. It was a great car. That’s probably why I looked for an Avalon again in 2019 when I was craving a trunk again.

Bingo.
Tinted windows help, but overall, I want a lockable trunk separate from the cabin.
Safety is a concern as well. If a vehicle rolls over, you're going to be hurting.
Items in the back of an SUV flying about the cabin will add to that hurt. It would really suck to have a vehicle's safety system protect you in an accident, only to have your neck broken by your toolbox.

 

Last week the repairs were completed on my 2013 TAHL from when a deer hit me in November. The hood, grill, front bumper, right front fender and a few internal engine compartment parts were replaced to the tune of about $7,500.00. The Toyota Dealer Collision Center did an excellent job. The car looks new and you cannot tell it was repaired. They also detailed the inside and outside of the car.

Not having driven the car for month, I forgot how well it drives and how much I enjoy driving this car. So thankfully I am not in the market for a new car at this time and can let the car market get over the chip shortage and watch EVs evolve. What I determined when I was looking was if I buy another ICE sedan it would probably be the Lexus E300h Hybrid over the Avalon Limited Hybrid for the things that my Gen4 has that the Gen5 Avalon no longer has, such as rain sensing wipers, volume controlled air vents, finished trunk, higher quality interior, etc. More likely is I will buy an EV. RIP Avalon.

 

That's pretty much what Toyota is hoping the Avalon owners will buy the Lexus ES. I don't think any EVs are worth the time and trouble to recharge yet. I wonder how many EV owners switch back to the Hybrid after a few years with a full EV vehicle. The Hybrids seem to have the best alternative for every day driving and conditions .

 

Your post describes why I haven’t bought an EV yet. I will clearly buy one when the range equals my max distance in a day, and when everyplace I sleep had available charging stations. We are getting close, and I might even switch with a vehicle that gives me 70-80% of max daily range.

I do believe that eventually charging stations will become easier to find than gas stations, and the price of gasoline will make the economics of driving a gasoline powered car beyond the reach of most people. Not to mention that driving an EV is amazingly fun.

The smartest person I’ve ever worked with was Andy Grove who was a founder of Intel. After he retired about 20 years ago, he predicted that if the US really wants energy independence, (and he was not sure we really did), he said the only possible way was to move to an electric economy, especially for transportation. His rationale was:

1) All forms of energy are easily transported to whomever is willing to pay the most.
2) The exception is electricity, which is captive to the continent on which it is created.
3) The US is paying an extremely low amount for energy, but this is unsustainable in a global economy.
4) Every form of energy is easily converted to electricity, but the converse is not true.
5) Hence moving to an electrical power ecosystem gives a nation an economic advantage not attainable by any other means.

And this was all before the issue of global warming and carbon emissions was recognized.

 

I think I read somewhere a few months ago that the switch-back rate from EV to ICE is around 30%. Another Hybrid I have my eye on is the 2022 Lexus LS500h coming in the spring of 2022. If I like it enough, I could make it my reward for getting this far in life.

 

If I drove my Avalon more miles a day maybe the benefits of owning a new full size luxury vehicle would be nice. But driving for work 2 to 3 hundred miles a night in the gas truck makes driving not much fun anymore, no matter what I'm driving anymore. It's quite a challenge to drive with today's self thought gamer's.