Airplanes are diffrent than trucks!!!


Airplane engines are different than truck engines… It is true many airplanes have filters are exposed direct to the elements, but airplanes unlike trucks spend most of their time at altitude where there is much less dust than you find on streets… Aircraft also have an alternate induction air system which bypasses the filter if it becomes clogged.

I sure the guys at URD have spent a lot of time making sure this system works, I just think you’re comparing apples and oranges.

 

Decisions, decisions....

Does this make it harder or easier to decide? Remember it is Rear Wheel HP and not a guestimated crank HP that everyone else uses....

Gadget

 

Airplane engines are different than truck engines… It is true many airplanes have filters are exposed direct to the elements, but airplanes unlike trucks spend most of their time at altitude where there is much less dust than you find on streets… Aircraft also have an alternate induction air system which bypasses the filter if it becomes clogged.

I sure the guys at URD have spent a lot of time making sure this system works, I just think you’re comparing apples and oranges.

Just wondering, the pictures of the filter above, did you see any signs of it being clogged? keep in mind that it has been out in the grill since the supercharger system was prototyped about a year ago, never changed, never cleaned and it is a daily driven truck.

Lets say you were driving down a dusty dirt road. Where do you think would be the better place to draw in air, out in front of the truck where there is nothing but clean undistrubed air, or say the wheel well above the tire kicking up a crap load of dust?

Remember we are not using one of those crappy oil soad cotton filters with thousands of holes in the filter media much bigger then the dust particals you are trying to filter out, we are using the best air filter available, it is an AMSOIL Nano Fiber dry media filter.

Gadget

 

Gadget

I didn't say that there was a problem with your system, I'm simply saying to compare an airplane to a truck does not make sence...

I agree that the air infront of the truck is cleaner than the air in the wheel well, that's if there's nobody infront of you.

 

About the dyno sheet Gadget, was this dyno done with the MAF? If so, had it already been calibrated before you dynoed it with the CAI. If it was with the MAF, by the looks of it, the numbers say it hadnt been messed with.

 

Just wondering, the pictures of the filter above, did you see any signs of it being clogged? keep in mind that it has been out in the grill since the supercharger system was prototyped about a year ago, never changed, never cleaned and it is a daily driven truck.

Lets say you were driving down a dusty dirt road. Where do you think would be the better place to draw in air, out in front of the truck where there is nothing but clean undisturbed air, or say the wheel well above the tire kicking up a crap load of dust?

Remember we are not using one of those crappy oil soad cotton filters with thousands of holes in the filter media much bigger then the dust particals you are trying to filter out, we are using the best air filter available, it is an AMSOIL Nano Fiber dry media filter.

Gadget

OIL ANALYSIS?

I've seen lots of pictures of "clean" K&N air filters too.

I don't think anyone meant "clogged". I think we meant "exposed to an unnecessary amount of abuse".

I don't get any of the "crap load of dust" you speak of from the wheel well intake location. How do you figure that the air in front of the truck is clean? I've got a truck covered from FRONT to back in salt that screams otherwise.

You're trying to rationalize the placement of this filter and there is none. What's better? An intake filter that is protected from the elements under the hood with a vented piece of plastic and sheet metal protecting it from direct contact with rain, snow, sand and salt... or one that's got nothing but space between it and what's in front of a truck traveling at 70 mph? You seriously want us to answer that question?

Frankly, I like most of the URD products but this is a bad a idea for a majority of truck owners. Typically your posts sound informed and knowledgeable. But here you have presented a lot of circumstantial, and irrelevant, evidence that this intake will not cause engine problems in the future. "No issues" in ONE year is not very convincing considering most people here are considering keeping their trucks for TEN.

How much of that 18 RWHP gain is a direct result of the MAF calibrator?

 

wnedsmas

 

Nice post.

Here is the thing.

I have actually run the filter in that location for over a year. So, I guess you could say I have direct real experience with it. You have not. Direct experience trumps theory every time.

The intake is fine where it is. If there was any indication it was not, I would not say so or offer it as a URD product.

The thing works and it seems to work better then any other intake system on the market to date. It may not be for everyone, but our intent was to make the best performing street truck intake available. I think we have hit our goal.

Gadget

 

How much of that 18 RWHP gain is a direct result of the MAF calibrator?

/\ This question wasn't answered.

Marc M

 

Nice post.

Here is the thing.

I have actually run the filter in that location for over a year. So, I guess you could say I have direct real experience with it. You have not. Direct experience trumps theory every time.

You've run that filter for over a year? Well Amsoil came out with them in May of '06 so I find that a little hard to believe. https://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/2006/pr_EaAU.aspx

The intake is fine where it is. If there was any indication it was not, I would not say so or offer it as a URD product.

So then you've disproven your "experience over theory" hypothesis. My whole point is not to just give you a hard time but ask for concrete evidence (UOA) that the intake is indeed fine where it is. Do you guarantee that 5 years down the road customers aren't going to have to rebuild engines with 80k miles on them? Pictures are not proof.

The thing works and it seems to work better then any other intake system on the market to date. It may not be for everyone, but our intent was to make the best performing street truck intake available. I think we have hit our goal.

So if the PSC1 can produce 15 HP on a stock truck (Link). And together the PSC1 and CAI can produce 18 HP gain. Then deductive reasoning leads me to believe that the intake produces 3 HP gain?

I hope you have also hit your sales goals. That is the most important thing.

 

You really seem to want to jump to a lot of conclusions that are just plain wrong.

Now since I have actually run the intake in that location and you have not, let me say it again. There have not been any issues at all with the location of the intake. It is just that simple. Now if you have some evidence that there is a problem I would love to hear it. Instead it is just all theory on your part.

I guess I will have to correct myself on the dates. The original prototype was completed in March 06. I guess that is a hair less the a year and not over a year. The ortiginal prototype used an AEM filter. It had the intake inside of the engine compartment. More testing found that moving the intake to the grill dropped intake temp by 30*F. The grill intake version was done using the AMSOIL filter. There has never been one issue with that filter in the grill.

Now, the URD TCAI on our test vehicle was dynoed and the chart has been posted. How you can conclude that is a 3 HP gain is beyond me.

If you wish to discuss this any more you can contact me at Support@URDUSA.com.

Gadget

 

Like last friday, I ended up behind the sanding tuck on the highway. Freakin' swearing my head off at 8 in the morning. :cursin:

Got to work and there was a 1/2" of sand caked onto the front of my bumper.

Unless your truck is for show or you only take it out when the skies are blue and the roads are dry... the URD is impractical for everyday use.

That air filter is going to take a lot of abuse.

I was very intrested untill I read this post then saw a picture of the intake. I totally agree with boone. Looks like the TRD intake would be best for people seeling an aftermarket intake.

 

Nice post.



The thing works and it seems to work better then any other intake system on the market to date. It may not be for everyone, but our intent was to make the best performing street truck intake available. I think we have hit our goal.

Gadget

So this wont be good for an off road truck.......

 

If you do deep water crossings, then no, this is not the intake for you.

When I off road my off road 4Runner I routinely drive through creeks and streams and regularly a bow wave form and the the water splashes over the hood. You can see how submerging the intake under water would not be a good thing. Please do not do that with our intake system.

Gadget

 

You really seem to want to jump to a lot of conclusions that are just plain wrong.

Now, the URD TCAI on our test vehicle was dynoed and the chart has been posted. How you can conclude that is a 3 HP gain is beyond me.

You're kind of acting like a little bitch. I'm not going to take this offline. This is a forum and we're having a discussion. If you don't want to participate in this public forum, don't. Nobody is making you come here to market your product.

How did I come up with 3HP? Please correct me if I'm wrong. This is the THIRD post where I'm asking you to explain where the gains come from.

Well, you posted on 1/26/06:

The dyno chart you saw was from my X with a completely stock drive train. Stock airbox, stock exhaust EVERYTHING stock. I was able to get 15 HP with a simple retune. It displays REAR WHEEL HP. We don’t blow smoke by showing you a chart with inflated numbers that display CRANK HP GUESSTIMATE even when they take it from the rear wheels. We use real numbers the same way you can do it at about any dyno shop in the country.

I understand that comment as to say "by adding the PSC1/URD MAF calibrator you can get 15 HP gain from a stock truck." Am I mistaken?

Now fast forward to 2/16/2007:

Does this make it harder or easier to decide? Remember it is Rear Wheel HP and not a guestimated crank HP that everyone else uses....

Gadget

So 218.73 - 200.6 = 18.13 HP. I'm just assuming this dyno shows the effects of the PSC1 and URD CAI together. Stop me please... I don't want keep saying things that are just plain wrong.

So let's bring in Mr. Wizard. 15 HP gain from just the PSC1 as stated in January last year. 18 HP from the PSC1 and CAI as posted 2 days ago. Mr. Wizard says that "the difference between these two values is 3 HP. The PSC1 is the common denominator that we value at 15 HP. Thusly, the URD CAI has a value of 3 HP."

So were you just blowing smoke up our asses when you said the MAF calibrator could provide 15 HP alone?

You're side stepping questions like a politician. I get this same shit from the Amsoil dealers on BITOG all the time. Lot's of marketing, lots of here-say, never any proof. At least you bring dyno sheets, you don't explain them, but at least they are provided.

 

You're kind of acting like a little bitch. I'm not going to take this offline. This is a forum and we're having a discussion. If you don't want to participate in this public forum, don't. Nobody is making you come here to market your product.

How did I come up with 3HP? Please correct me if I'm wrong. This is the THIRD post where I'm asking you to explain where the gains come from.

Well, you posted on 1/26/06:



I understand that comment as to say "by adding the PSC1/URD MAF calibrator you can get 15 HP gain from a stock truck." Am I mistaken?

Now fast forward to 2/16/2007:



So 218.73 - 200.6 = 18.13 HP. I'm just assuming this dyno shows the effects of the PSC1 and URD CAI together. Stop me please... I don't want keep saying things that are just plain wrong.

So let's bring in Mr. Wizard. 15 HP gain from just the PSC1 as stated in January last year. 18 HP from the PSC1 and CAI as posted 2 days ago. Mr. Wizard says that "the difference between these two values is 3 HP. The PSC1 is the common denominator that we value at 15 HP. Thusly, the URD CAI has a value of 3 HP."

So were you just blowing smoke up our asses when you said the MAF calibrator could provide 15 HP alone?

You're side stepping questions like a politician. I get this same shit from the Amsoil dealers on BITOG all the time. Lot's of marketing, lots of here-say, never any proof. At least you bring dyno sheets, you don't explain them, but at least they are provided.

i asked the same question earlier in this thread, i asked was the MAF put on with this CAI or not. it does seem like youre beating around the bush (more of around the question).

 

Well, as usual you keep jumping to gross mistaken conclusions. Dude you are WRONG, it is just that simple.

The dyno chart speeks for its self. For you to conclude that there is only a gain of 3 HP is just wrong. The data is right there in front of you.

The dyno chart was done on a stock truck with the URD TCAI. The URD Normally Aspriated Power Package that includes the URD TCAI, URD Y Pipe, URD 3" Cat-Back, and the URD MAF Sensor Calibrator gives a gain of 31 RWHP.

It is clear that you are just trying to create a problem, why I have no idea. You are just making things up that are not true. All your conclusions are wrong, I have explained where you are wrong, yet you keep insisting on being wrong.

If you wish to discuss this further please feel free to contact me at Support@URDUSA.com.

Gadget

 

Well, as usual you keep jumping to gross mistaken conclusions. Dude you are WRONG, it is just that simple.

The dyno chart speeks for its self. For you to conclude that there is only a gain of 3 HP is just wrong. The data is right there in front of you.

The dyno chart was done on a stock truck with the URD TCAI. The URD Normally Aspriated Power Package that includes the URD TCAI, URD Y Pipe, URD 3" Cat-Back, and the URD MAF Sensor Calibrator gives a gain of 31 RWHP.

It is clear that you are just trying to create a problem, why I have no idea. You are just making things up that are not true. All your conclusions are wrong, I have explained where you are wrong, yet you keep insisting on being wrong.

If you wish to discuss this further please feel free to contact me at Support@URDUSA.com.

Gadget

Gadget, I am by all means not trying to stir up a problem, lets get that straight. I like the products put out by URD. I have the shortshifter kit and like that you use Rotrex with your superchargers. I am not trying to bash URD products. Clear this up for me and we will be good.

Ok to the point. You just posted that the Power package gains 31whp. Without the MAF it would be roughly around 16whp for the TCAI, Y pipe, and cat-back. So all im asking is how much is coming from JUST the TCAI on a bone stock truck without any other modifications? In the dyno you posted an 18whp gain and never explained what other mods had been put on or already were on. It all just doesnt come together. Just explain this and all will be settled...

 

Well, I am sorry. My last post was directed to the guy that has resorted to personal attacks and name calling.

The dyno chart was from a stock truck with the URD TCAI installed. NOTHING ELSE. The URD MAF Sensor Calibrator was wired in, but for that run it was set to a neutral setting with no signal correction at all, so it was as if it was not there at all.

Gadget

 

it would be nice to be able to see a dyno plots showing....


1- totally stock
2- stock w/maf tune
3- urd's cai w/maf tune

same vehicle, same day, same tune (rich/lean).... for a valid reference showing potential gains. if you re read urd's site 15rwhp was gained on a stock xrunner, but similar stock vechiles gained 8-15 hp. not all will vehicles will yield 15hp gains stock. probably because of the allowable +/- accuracy rate in the maf sensors in our stock toyota parts. yet there's gains to be made, but how much varies.... read the material....

 

Correct me if I am wrong on this. I have read that the MAF works differently in terms of gains depending on the truck? The last and only thing I am confused about is that the Power package brings 31whp. If the TCAI adds 18 then the cat-back and MAF would add roughly around 13 correct? So in this instance the rough estimates would be TCAI adds 18, MAF add 10, cat-back added 3. Does that seem about right to you? If so, then I agree with your info and have no more questons.

EDIT: This is directed for Gadget.

 

Thanks for clearing that up Gadget. I, like others, was getting a little confused.

 

Correct me if I am wrong on this. I have read that the MAF works differently in terms of gains depending on the truck? The last and only thing I am confused about is that the Power package brings 31whp. If the TCAI adds 18 then the cat-back and MAF would add roughly around 13 correct? So in this instance the rough estimates would be TCAI adds 18, MAF add 10, cat-back added 3. Does that seem about right to you? If so, then I agree with your info and have no more questons.

EDIT: This is directed for Gadget.

Becarful you don't fall into that common trap with the expectation that results from one mod stacks perfectly on top of the results of another mod. It almost never works that way.

The first mod on a stock truck will usually yeild the greatest result. The next although impressive by its self on a stock truck, generally will not stack. With our normally asipriated power package when all those things were installed they did not stack, and the end result on the test truck was 31 RWHP. I feel that is an impressive number considering that on the 5vz just the TRD Supercharger alone gave 40 HP to the rear wheels. What I can tell you is that 31 RWHP gain sure does make the truck more fun to drive.

Gadget

 

Becarful you don't fall into that common trap with the expectation that results from one mod stacks perfectly on top of the results of another mod. It almost never works that way.

The first mod on a stock truck will usually yeild the greatest result. The next although impressive by its self on a stock truck, generally will not stack. With our normally asipriated power package when all those things were installed they did not stack, and the end result on the test truck was 31 RWHP. I feel that is an impressive number considering that on the 5vz just the TRD Supercharger alone gave 40 HP to the rear wheels. What I can tell you is that 31 RWHP gain sure does make the truck more fun to drive.

Gadget

Yeah thats what I figured. I figured not all would yield as large gains when put together hence why I put the MAF would only get 10 rather than the largest 15. Alrighty all clear then, thanks for taking the time to explain things.

 

OK Gadget, sign me up! I just got my tax return and am gonna give this TCAI a shot! You got a discount code or anything??