This is a first for us with the new 2018 Highlander Ltd. It just doesn't feel right to have the engine stopping and starting every time you come to a red light. To ME it would seem like wear and tear on the starter so I plan to turn it off. Anyone LIKE it?



All opinions appreciated.



Haze

There are I think numerous threads on this. EPA awards 1 mpg for S/S system. On top of that take into consideration very thin oil Toyota uses etc. one of the reason why I will get 15-16 HL is S/S system in 17-18.


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There are LOTS of people who hate it.
We have this whole thread on creating a device that disables it permanently
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/3...ander-3rd-generation-2014/1524522-stop-start-custom-disabling-device-build.html

With the help of the incredible members of this forum, there is now a device in production to defeat and disable S/S on 17/18 Highlanders
It's a huge thread you may just want to skip to the end to see the completed device, with this link below hahah
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/3...ation-2014/1524522-stop-start-custom-disabling-device-build-8.html#post13202842

 

To ME it would seem like wear and tear on the starter so I plan to turn it off.

Do YOU honestly believe Toyota engineers didn't know what they were doing when they added this to millions of vehicles?

 

You,have to be kidding;:surprise: have you ever heard of CAFE?

 

YASS thread! :wink:

I activate S/S only when I come to a stop light that I know will be a long wait by depressing the brake firmly. I have been using it 1+ year and like it so far.

 

I hate it and that’s why I use the S8 transmission setting.

 

I really don't mind the S/S feature, it operates pretty much unobtrusively and once you get accustomed to it you're really not aware of it. What I don't like is it only works in "D" and I don't like the shift points and the transmission's reluctance to downshift when in "D" - as a result I drive in "S8" almost all the time.

 

I bought the device from a forum member and works like a champ. I forget I even installed it and yes I hated the s/s feature.

 

Is that device mentioned here?
I now might consider 2017 used one.



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The guy that makes them is on the thread linked above that somebody sent you. If I remember it might be him. There not expensive and doubt you'll find one used.

 

This is a first for us with the new 2018 Highlander Ltd. It just doesn't feel right to have the engine stopping and starting every time you come to a red light. To ME it would seem like wear and tear on the starter so I plan to turn it off. Anyone LIKE it?

All opinions appreciated.

Haze

YASS thread! <img src="http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/images/ToyotaNation_2014/smilies/tango_face_wink.png" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" />

I activate S/S only when I come to a stop light that I know will be a long wait by depressing the brake firmly. I have been using it 1+ year and like it so far.

Same here. I only use it around town on lights I know will be 2 or so minutes long.

 

13% of all fuel consumed in the US by passenger vehicles is wasted idling, billions of gallons more billions of dollars just to create pollution. The EPA cycles did not include sitting and idling so the manufacturers saw no benefit in implementing the technology, which is fairly ancient. Not even considering the money saved, this technology is here to stay.

Mazda's sky-activ technology even stopped the cylinder in the perfect spot for the restart to occur when the plug fired the sitting cylinder, starting the engine without having to crank it with a starter motor.. This actually happened 100 years ago with a Rolls Royce Silver ghost. turned on the ignition and a cylinder fired that had sat overnight!!!!

I just do it manually whenever the circumstances allow it, sometimes at 70 mph not just sitting=infinite MPG. Been doing it for 10 years and over 100k miles. 50 years ago, I drove on a penny a mile, last tank 4.4 cents a mile.

 

13% of all fuel consumed in the US by passenger vehicles is wasted idling,...

Where does that 'information' come from? Do you have a reliable, verifiable source?

According to actual studies done in 2015 a large sedan burns less than .4 gal. per hour when idling. For a real world perspective that's less than 5 teaspoons a minute. To get up to 13% one would likely have to leave it idling all the time the vehicle is not in use.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicle...61-february-23-2015-idle-fuel-consumption-selected-gasoline-and-diesel-vehicles

 

It's rare, but I really don't like it when you are planning a left turn in heavy traffic, ready to hit it with a tight fast gap. And the motor stops...

 

Really? The engine is running before you can move your foot from the brake to the accelerator. Also, it's not like you are Big Daddy Don Garlitz waiting to burn rubber when the green light comes on. You see when the gap is coming and lift your foot off the brake.

The only time I wasn't thrilled when the engine shut down was when I was stopped at a red light in a spooky rural town in the middle of the night with thick fog all around. The silence kind of creeped me out.

 

I find that the sensitivity on the HL brake pedal to trigger the SS is just right. It doesn't usually come on at a normal stop at a stop sign. I rented a Pacifica recently and the brake was really sensitive in that SS would come on at most stop signs...

 

This is exactly how I find it. Mine rarely goes off when I use it because I don’t have to jamb on my brakes to stop, usually! But every once in awhile I forget and press too hard on the pedal and I find it annoying more than anything else when it goes off. Thus the switch to the S8 mode.

 

Kind of reminds me of my previous 2005 Corvette with the manual transmission. For EPA sake, there is a skip shift. So at times, depending on various factors, you are forced to go from 1 to 4. And there have been times similar to the above where it can be unnerving. Being in 4th instead of the expected 2nd gear.

 

What many (all?) are failing to mention is that is you hate S/S that much, all you have to do is not MASH the brake pedal to the floor like a gorilla every time you stop at a red light. I know this because my HL routinely tells me that I need to press more firmly on the brake pedal if I want the S/S to engage.

It's almost as if... Toyota engineers knew that not everyone was going to want S/S... so they found the out that still allowed them to meet emissions targets.

 

It still sucks. All too easy to engage it. If you like it, good for you. I love my disabling device.

 

That feature is another reason we sold our 17 gas and went to a 18 hybrid. Even though the engine still shuts off in the hybrid, it feels natural.....coming from a Prius owner.

When the gas model restarts itself, there was a lag to it. With the hybrid, it was almost instant and when it restarts, you can barely notice it. Hard to explain. But the hybrid feels so much better.

 

That feature is another reason we sold our 17 gas and went to a 18 hybrid. Even though the engine still shuts off in the hybrid, it feels natural.....coming from a Prius owner.



When the gas model restarts itself, there was a lag to it. With the hybrid, it was almost instant and when it restarts, you can barely notice it. Hard to explain. But the hybrid feels so much better.

Because electric engines are seamlessly already push vehicle. ICE just joins the motion.


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@edycol – I'm not following on what work is exactly involved. I just get in mine and drive to perform all my Dad duties as required. If the engine stops at a light – it stops. If it doesn't, it doesn't.

Somebody coming by this board would get the impression that Toyota designed some kind of faulty system. That's not the case – it works exactly as it's designed to perform.

As to why people find S/S so bothersome, we'll - you've got me.

 

@edycol – I'm not following on what work is exactly involved. I just get in mine and drive to perform all my Dad duties as required. If the engine stops at a light – it stops. If it doesn't, it doesn't.



Somebody coming by this board would get the impression that Toyota designed some kind of faulty system. That's not the case – it works exactly as it's designed to perform.



As to why people find S/S so bothersome, we'll - you've got me.

It is bothersome, for me. Then you have arguments: do not apply brake too hard, switch to S8 ( sport and HL? Whatever), turn on power mode (I guess you get 50hp?). I want go turn it on and do not want it to turn off. It is HL. It is drive and forget car. EPA is taking away 1mpg if manufacturers make S/S possible to be permanently turned off. On top of that, I do not like engine starting on and off like that. I worked on development of engine oils and while I understand that manufacturers are using heavy duty starters, AGM batteries etc. it is still engine start. On top of that, EPA gives 1mpg across the board for S/S. You have no idea whether you are actually gaining 1mpg or not.


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Did the exploding Pinto engineers know what they were doing?

 

Or the Chevy Corvair that could turn itself over when cornering...
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_at_Any_Speed)

 

Not sure if this test is applicable to all cars with a S/S system but this European test with a diesel in the city got a 10% improvement.

 

Not sure if this test is applicable to all cars with a S/S system but this European test with a diesel in the city got a 10% improvement.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8D6N981zo8

European cities are much more congested and slower. However, 10% in diesel especially, considering that it is already efficient, seems a lot.
Now i drive a lot there since I am from there. Sometimes idling takes a lot of time and turning off engine is obviously ok. But sometimes also in that traffic S/S can be really clunky, especially in diesel.


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So far, I don't mind using the S/S feature, have not disengaged it yet. I really like it at the long red lights that last +/- 1.5 minutes. Now that the outside temps are in the 90sF, the engine turns back on much sooner, for "climate control".

 

Before I shut down engine I make sure all systems are off (radio, ac, ventilation, lights). When I am starting vehicle I do not want anything ON.


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Some GREAT conversations in this thread people. Many great arguments for and against S/S. I really appreciate the feedback and loved the "Big Daddy Don Garlits" comment. I have been to his museum in Ocala.

Happy motoring Highlander Family!!


Haze

 

I am not familiar with the s/s system in the gasoline Highlander. I have a HL Hybrid. It is my second hybrid so the s/s system in them is not new to me and seems to work quite well. Does the hybrid system work or start differently than the gas powered HL? I know it stops the gas engine while converting to electric mode.

If they work the same I am mystified by the many concerns expressed regarding life expectancy of the starter, etc. It has been used for literally decades in many hybrids to include those made by Toyota.

 

I am not familiar with the s/s system in the gasoline Highlander. I have a HL Hybrid. It is my second hybrid so the s/s system in them is not new to me and seems to work quite well. Does the hybrid system work or start differently than the gas powered HL? I know it stops the gas engine while converting to electric mode.

If they work the same I am mystified by the many concerns expressed regarding life expectancy of the starter, etc. It has been used for literally decades in many hybrids to include those made by Toyota.

The big difference is that with a hybrid the electric motor starts you moving the instant you press on the gas pedal. The non-hybrid has a split second delay until the engine starts. That split second can be hairy when pulling into traffic.



The second difference is that the hybrid uses the motor generator to start the engine. It is a huge motor and spins the engine like crazy - the engine is revved before it even starts. Also being much more heavy duty than an ordinary starter motor and directly connected to the crankshaft, there is no flywheel / pinion gear wear and little wear from continued restarting.


I had an Escape hybrid for ten years and the start / stop experience is night and day different. Escape start stop never bothered me at all.

 

No. Definitely doesn’t feel the same. Hybrid feels way better. No lag. Feels smoother in transition.

The gas is basically restarting the car every time

 

The biggest irritation to me is the fact that it is forced on you. You cannot turn it off and leave it off like let's say the radio. You have to turn it off every time you get in the car. Surprised we haven't had the wonderful radar cruise control discussion, what a pain it can become all by itself.

 

hey they forced the seatbelt use on you too, but I assume you want to turn that "off" too and won't use it. Buy a car that doesn't come with S/S if it is that bothersome.
I've been driving HHL for 10 years with S/S and the only thing that bothers me is you don't hear it starting. Even 1st thing when starting you don't hear a starter turning around and that is hard for me to get used to, but to me it never lags.
If I want to accelerate quick I drive the Mini Cooper or any other car with a manual.

 

2018 LE with V6 for the win. No S/S feature!!!

 

Does LE has button operated trunk? That is must for me since my wife is 5ft tall.


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For the price (about 10k savings) , the LE isn’t a bad choice. Does it come with smart key?

If not, wouldn’t the LE hybrid have smart key since all hybrids come with it?

Smart key is a must for us. Traditional keys are obsolete to us. Even my 2005 Lexus has a smart key

 

I think there are different levels of what a smart key is. The LE does not have push button start if that is what you are looking for. I do have a single integrated key with 3 buttons, lock, unlock, and alarm. I believe you can control the behavior of the beeping, when things lock, etc on the control menu but I haven't played with any of that yet.

(Edit) As far as hybrids, I don't know, I have not looked at anything with any of the hybrid models.