http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMN-WEWM5IE It works in all line of Toyota, and Lexus, I tried it ,cool stuff, from now on you can burn out your tire with 280Hp avalon, lol
jamesoy
Hmm... it's not that hard in all models is it? I know in the new 09 Corolla all you have to do is press and hold the Trac Off button until the VSC OFF light comes on. Or does this permanently disable it until re-enabled?
Jeff
Jeff
umm I dont think it will have , by model, avalon still not a sporty car, it s full-size sedan, so i think my contribution only like "Sport mode" in a short time, because when the car start over again the VSC and TC still be enabled automatically. another thing is , FWD is risky when the VSC and TC off. Be careful volks.
Why bother? If your tires are spinnin' - you're wasting time.
VSC and traction control has saved my butt on more than one occasion. When you need it you're not going to have the time to re-enable them.
I'd really advise against doing that...
VSC and traction control has saved my butt on more than one occasion. When you need it you're not going to have the time to re-enable them.
I'd really advise against doing that...
I agree with Tom. If you're going to disable important safety features, while you're at it, why not go ahead and rip out those pesky, confining seatbelts?
With a mere 1" of snow, our '05 Avalon cannot climb a 5% grade unless the Traction control is disengaged. Afer the silly complicated process is accomplished, it goes fine in snow, just like every other front-wheel-drive car I have ever driven. Even my rear-wheel-drive 2WD pickup can out-traction the Avalon in snow with TC active. I know because I used the pickup to go out and rescue my wife when the Avalon was stuck on a slight hill.
On slippery surfaces, the "traction control" seems to work more like "traction prevention".
Traction Control is automatically restored when the ingition is turned off, so I am not worried about giving up the safety benefits forever.
On slippery surfaces, the "traction control" seems to work more like "traction prevention".
Traction Control is automatically restored when the ingition is turned off, so I am not worried about giving up the safety benefits forever.
inov8 - that doesn't sound right (not that I disbelieve you!). I've taken my Avy through Snoqualmie Pass (summit of 2800 feet) during white-out blizzard conditions on three separate occasions. The snow depth climbing up to the summit was 4-6 inches on the interstate. The Avy out performed every other vehicle I've ever owned - including a 4x4 F-150.
For comparison purposes - I'm running the factory original Michelin S-8's.
For comparison purposes - I'm running the factory original Michelin S-8's.
Wow, this is certainly a very volatile discussion full of subjective cautionaries.
Personally, I hate VSC and would love not to have it. I made the mistake of buying my '02 4Runner with VSC, but since then I have had two other Toyota's without it. I am contemplating a LSD differential in my 4Runner in an attempt to limit the VSC activity. If there was a way to disable it I would do it.
Please understand that I am not saying this to disparage anyone's ability. We 'Old school' drivers never had any of the modern electronic technology and we knew how to control skids and 4-wheel drifting. I loved it, but now we are CONTROLLED.
If some one comes up with a proven across the board all model inclusive VSC disable procedure --- LMK!
- Peter
Personally, I hate VSC and would love not to have it. I made the mistake of buying my '02 4Runner with VSC, but since then I have had two other Toyota's without it. I am contemplating a LSD differential in my 4Runner in an attempt to limit the VSC activity. If there was a way to disable it I would do it.
Please understand that I am not saying this to disparage anyone's ability. We 'Old school' drivers never had any of the modern electronic technology and we knew how to control skids and 4-wheel drifting. I loved it, but now we are CONTROLLED.
If some one comes up with a proven across the board all model inclusive VSC disable procedure --- LMK!
- Peter
For what it's worth - I'm also an 'old school' driver that's constantly throwing away those damned AARP membership invitations.
When I want to hang the tail out in the curves I'll get in my Mustang GT (equipped with a traction control "Off" button) and let 'er rip.
But for the Avy - it's a different car and in my opinion (subjective or otherwise) does better with the controls in place.
When I want to hang the tail out in the curves I'll get in my Mustang GT (equipped with a traction control "Off" button) and let 'er rip.
But for the Avy - it's a different car and in my opinion (subjective or otherwise) does better with the controls in place.
To climb a grade in snow, momentum and controlled wheel spin are my allies.
At the onset of slip, I either cut back just slightly on the throttle, or “blip” it to dig down to coarser surface. The choice depends on conditions, and is a heck of a lot easier to learn/feel than describe.
My Avalon Traction Control fights you every inch of the way. As soon as it detects impending slip/spin, it apples the brakes and completely closes the throttle. Feels like someone reached over and turned off the ignition. All momentum is lost, and the game is over (back down and try again). Disabling the TC is like night and day . . . what was previously impossible becomes easy. Original Michelin all season tires here as well.
Perhaps the software was improved after ’05, which could explain why Tom in Tacoma is able to manage OK in serious snow country. There was a long thread of similar complaints over on the Edmunds forums back in ’05.
At the onset of slip, I either cut back just slightly on the throttle, or “blip” it to dig down to coarser surface. The choice depends on conditions, and is a heck of a lot easier to learn/feel than describe.
My Avalon Traction Control fights you every inch of the way. As soon as it detects impending slip/spin, it apples the brakes and completely closes the throttle. Feels like someone reached over and turned off the ignition. All momentum is lost, and the game is over (back down and try again). Disabling the TC is like night and day . . . what was previously impossible becomes easy. Original Michelin all season tires here as well.
Perhaps the software was improved after ’05, which could explain why Tom in Tacoma is able to manage OK in serious snow country. There was a long thread of similar complaints over on the Edmunds forums back in ’05.
Must be your '05, inov8. This has been a mother of a winter in Iowa with record snowfall totals. My '07 went through it so much better than my previous (non-Toyota) vehicles. Is there a TSB on the problem?
Michelin Energy MXV4 all-season, factory original size (215-55/VR17). When I first discovered how easy it was to get stuck, they had ~6000 miles of wear. No doubt dedicated winter tires would be a lot better, but snow traction is adequate for local conditions once TC is turned off. We rarely see more than 3"-4" inches before the plows make a pass.
I don't get it - same effective car, exact same tires (the S8 is the same as the MXV4).
You mention you have traction control - does yours also have vehicle stability control?
You mention you have traction control - does yours also have vehicle stability control?
Based on what is printed in my manual, I think the answer is Yes. We have the Limited model. See info directly below copied from the ABS/TRAC/VSC section (I have a PDF version).
The brake control system (ABS with EBD, Brake Assist, TRAC and VSC) of ’05 Avalon has the following functions:
ABS (Anti-lock Brake System)
The ABS helps prevent the wheels from locking when the brakes are applied firmly
or when braking on a slippery surface.
EBD (Electronic Brake force Distribution)
The EBD control utilizes ABS, realizing the proper brake force distribution between
front and rear wheels in accordance with the driving conditions.
In addition, during cornering braking, it also controls the brake forces of right and
left wheels, helping to maintain the vehicle behavior.
Brake Assist
The primary purpose of the Brake Assist is to provide an auxiliary brake force to
assist the driver who cannot generate a large brake force during emergency braking,
thus helping draw the vehicle’s brake performance.
TRAC (Traction Control)
The TRAC system helps prevent the drive wheels from slipping if the driver presses
the accelerator pedal excessively when starting off or accelerating on a slippery
surface.
VSC (Vehicle Stability Control)
The VSC system helps prevent the vehicle from slipping sideways as a result of
strong front wheel skid or strong rear wheel skid during cornering.
The ABS helps prevent the wheels from locking when the brakes are applied firmly
or when braking on a slippery surface.
EBD (Electronic Brake force Distribution)
The EBD control utilizes ABS, realizing the proper brake force distribution between
front and rear wheels in accordance with the driving conditions.
In addition, during cornering braking, it also controls the brake forces of right and
left wheels, helping to maintain the vehicle behavior.
Brake Assist
The primary purpose of the Brake Assist is to provide an auxiliary brake force to
assist the driver who cannot generate a large brake force during emergency braking,
thus helping draw the vehicle’s brake performance.
TRAC (Traction Control)
The TRAC system helps prevent the drive wheels from slipping if the driver presses
the accelerator pedal excessively when starting off or accelerating on a slippery
surface.
VSC (Vehicle Stability Control)
The VSC system helps prevent the vehicle from slipping sideways as a result of
strong front wheel skid or strong rear wheel skid during cornering.
5. Outline of TRAC System
If the driver presses the accelerator pedal aggressively when starting off or accelerating on a slippery surface, the drive wheel could slip due to the excessive amount of torque that is generated. By applying hydraulic brake control to the drive wheels and regulating the throttle to control the engine output, the TRAC system helps minimize the slippage of the drive wheels, thus generating the drive force that is appropriate for the road surface conditions.
For example, a comparison may be made between two vehicles, one with the TRAC system and the other without. If the driver of each vehicle operates the accelerator pedal in a rough manner while driving over a surface with different surface friction characteristics, the drive wheel on the slippery surface could slip. As a result, the vehicle can not start smoothly.
However, when the vehicle is equipped with the TRAC system, the Skid Control ECU instantly determines the state of the vehicle and operates the brake actuator in order to apply the brake of the slipping drive wheel. Furthermore, the ECM receives the signals from the Skid Control ECU and regulates the throttle in order to control the engine output. Thus, the system can constantly help maintain a stable driving force.
However, when the vehicle is equipped with the TRAC system, the Skid Control ECU instantly determines the state of the vehicle and operates the brake actuator in order to apply the brake of the slipping drive wheel. Furthermore, the ECM receives the signals from the Skid Control ECU and regulates the throttle in order to control the engine output. Thus, the system can constantly help maintain a stable driving force.
Transition to the service mode (TRAC and VSC OFF mode).
The TRAC and VSC systems can be turned off by following the procedures below:
When using the parking brake and brake pedal:
1) Check that the IG is off and the shift lever position is at P.
2) Start the engine after turning the IG to the ON position.
3) Operate the following steps 4 to 8 within 30 seconds after engine start.
4) Turn the parking brake switch on.
5) Depress and release the brake pedal twice.
6) Turn the parking brake switch on and off twice while depressing the brake pedal.
7) Depress and release the brake pedal twice while the parking brake switch is on.
1) Check that the IG is off and the shift lever position is at P.
2) Start the engine after turning the IG to the ON position.
3) Operate the following steps 4 to 8 within 30 seconds after engine start.
4) Turn the parking brake switch on.
5) Depress and release the brake pedal twice.
6) Turn the parking brake switch on and off twice while depressing the brake pedal.
7) Depress and release the brake pedal twice while the parking brake switch is on.
Notice:
Steps 6 and 7 should be performed within 15 seconds each.
8) Check that the VSC warning light and slip indicator are turned on. If they are not turned on, start over from step 1.
9) The brake control system will return to the normal mode by turning the IG to the ON position from off.
8) Check that the VSC warning light and slip indicator are turned on. If they are not turned on, start over from step 1.
9) The brake control system will return to the normal mode by turning the IG to the ON position from off.
For details transition to the service mode, see the 2005 Avalon Repair Manual (Pub. No. RM1169U).
Dis-Connecting is sometimes essential
Thanks for this update. I'm a fanatical skier (50+ days per year) and normally use our XC-70 to get into the Rockies. The Avalon is equipped with Michelin snows but I had a heck of a time yesterday (March 14, 2009) extracting it from a backroad parking spot at my favourite hill. I wished I had the foresight to include these instructions in my glovebox as the front wheels barey budged in the icy and snowy conditions (albeit relatively benign for this area). A fair bit of "rocking" finally dislodged me, but having the ability to disconnect would have saved a lot of commotion. I'm a bit surprised that the Avalon just doesn't have a simple button as we does our Volvo and Mercedes. In any case, the thread has been copied and put int he glove ocmpartment for next time!
Thanks for this update. I'm a fanatical skier (50+ days per year) and normally use our XC-70 to get into the Rockies. The Avalon is equipped with Michelin snows but I had a heck of a time yesterday (March 14, 2009) extracting it from a backroad parking spot at my favourite hill. I wished I had the foresight to include these instructions in my glovebox as the front wheels barey budged in the icy and snowy conditions (albeit relatively benign for this area). A fair bit of "rocking" finally dislodged me, but having the ability to disconnect would have saved a lot of commotion. I'm a bit surprised that the Avalon just doesn't have a simple button as we does our Volvo and Mercedes. In any case, the thread has been copied and put int he glove ocmpartment for next time!
add me to the list...HATE IT !
I have the same Michelin tires on my 08 Avalon LTD I couldn't get up my gradual slope drive without a TON of problems!
My dealer assured me that we would LOVE this feature in the winter. Well he should drive this thing! It sucks!
I just want a car that runs well in the winter, tolerate the snow and ice, go where it's supposed to...my 2 cents
I have the same Michelin tires on my 08 Avalon LTD I couldn't get up my gradual slope drive without a TON of problems!
My dealer assured me that we would LOVE this feature in the winter. Well he should drive this thing! It sucks!
I just want a car that runs well in the winter, tolerate the snow and ice, go where it's supposed to...my 2 cents
Congrats for finding something that works for you !
I am in another thread discussing tires as well.
My car is less than a year and we have 31K on it. The majority is highway going 60-70 mph. It sounds like you found a good tire, just don't know if that would work for me.
With the Bridgestones you haven't had an issue with the traction???
I am in another thread discussing tires as well.
My car is less than a year and we have 31K on it. The majority is highway going 60-70 mph. It sounds like you found a good tire, just don't know if that would work for me.
With the Bridgestones you haven't had an issue with the traction???
No issue with traction, just felt spongy around corners until I upped the PSI. These tires have millions of little cross slits in them for ice traction and I think that could limit their wear-ability, but I only keep them on during the really bad snow months. I am driving to FL at the end of this month and will swap back to my Potenza's.
I was having propblems with my 4Runner and said the heck with this and bought some serious snow tires for that. They hum like a siren but I can go through a snowbank with them and they were cheap --- $75 per. I am getting new wheels for that car too so I can use some aggressive road tires instead of going 50/50.
I was having propblems with my 4Runner and said the heck with this and bought some serious snow tires for that. They hum like a siren but I can go through a snowbank with them and they were cheap --- $75 per. I am getting new wheels for that car too so I can use some aggressive road tires instead of going 50/50.
Interesting tidbits on the TC. This will be my first winter with this Av, so we'll see what it's like. My 2004 Corolla was marginal at best due to the light front end, an automatic Corolla I drove was much better. This Av should have no problem weight wise.
I'm about to pull the trigger on a set of Dunlop Winter Sport SP 3D snow tires.
I almost was going to get another set of Blizzak Ws60's, the best snow tire I've had to date.
I'm about to pull the trigger on a set of Dunlop Winter Sport SP 3D snow tires.
I almost was going to get another set of Blizzak Ws60's, the best snow tire I've had to date.
Has anybody tried the dealer to see if they could permanently disable the TRAC control? I doubt they would due to safety concerns and liability. Does anyone know how to disable it via the fuses or to install a switch like many other vehicles have? If I could get access to good electrical schematics I may be able to figure something out. I'm looking into it.
The dealer wont even disable the seatbelt chime despite the fact its clearly in the service manual. I'm sure there's no permanent override.
It's shame its so tedious. I got it on the first try, but it was much easier in my Hyundai Azera to just hit the "esc off" button rather than mess with the complicated toyota big brother sequence.
UPDATE:
I bought the Michelin XICE2 snows. They are very nice tires. Like most Michelin snows, not as good as the snow gets deeper. Certainly no Blizzaks. But the ride nice, handle pretty well (you feel the crosswinds a lot more as with most snows), and they stop well in the ice and hardpacked snow.
The TC just sucks. The last two weeks have made me realize how bad this system is. The tires will go, as long as they're allowed to spin. Going up a slick hill was like climbing an ice wall wearing skates.
BTW, I wonder what kind of brake wear these system account for? I need new pads again and a set of rotors. Resurfaced at 45k, done at 55k. My 1996 Av went 95000 miles on the original rotors, and the pads lasted a long time.
I bought the Michelin XICE2 snows. They are very nice tires. Like most Michelin snows, not as good as the snow gets deeper. Certainly no Blizzaks. But the ride nice, handle pretty well (you feel the crosswinds a lot more as with most snows), and they stop well in the ice and hardpacked snow.
The TC just sucks. The last two weeks have made me realize how bad this system is. The tires will go, as long as they're allowed to spin. Going up a slick hill was like climbing an ice wall wearing skates.
BTW, I wonder what kind of brake wear these system account for? I need new pads again and a set of rotors. Resurfaced at 45k, done at 55k. My 1996 Av went 95000 miles on the original rotors, and the pads lasted a long time.
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