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Intake air temperature sensor - 1992 V6 Pickup - Code 24

2 reading
738 views 12 replies 3 participants last post by  LostYears  
#1 ·
Symptom was that the truck started and ran fine, except occasionally on a cool day it would start fine, run a few seconds, and die. I've replaced the fuel pump a couple of times over the years (owing to ethanol in the gas - deterioration) but am pretty sure the pump, fuel pressure regulator, and so forth are all fine.

This went on for a while; over the Summer the truck did not do it, it ran fine and I thought of all sorts of possible temperature-related things, even checked the cold start injector per the manual, it is fine. Now it is cooler and I cannot get past the starting/dying.

The CEL code is 24, which says that the intake air temp sensor is the problem.

The intake air temp sensor is built in to the Air Flow Meter. Manual says to check ohms between various pins, all of which are good per the manual - except the two pins for the air temp reads 'open circuit' instead of the ohms the manual prescribes at various temperatures.

Manual says to replace the AFM if anything does not check right. Fine, it is only money and the truck has been really good to us since 1992 so I do not begrudge it any parts it needs - but can't find an AFM anywhere. Couple sketchy-seeming places on the Internet claim to have rebuilt ones, Toyota says "Discontinued" - so here I am.

The part number is Denso 197100-2920 and Toyota number is 22250-65010.

Questions:

1) Anyone know where to get a suitable AFM, new or rebuilt?
2) Anyone have an idea who might rebuild this AFM - install a new temp sensor?
3) any way to pinch hit for the temp sensor with an add-on resistor of some kind?
4) since the truck is old enough to be emissions test exempt, is is possible to delete some or all of the electronic controls and just make it run 'mechanically'?

Thank you if you've read this far.

And thank you very, very much if you have any suggestions or guidance.

I cannot let one miserable electric piece kill this truck.
 
#2 ·
No idea the quality but they do make returns easy!
 
#6 ·
Interesting option... I'd need to find 'the other end' of the wire at the THA terminal - where it connects to the actual sensor.

The manual says the resistance between THA and E2 should be:
10-20 k-ohms at 4 degrees F
4-7 k-ohms at 0 32 F
2-3 k-ohms at 68 F
0.9-1.3 k-ohms at 104 F
0.4-0.7 k-ohms at 140 F.

Since the truck only needs to run in the 60 - 100 F range (Texas), I thought of splicing a 1.5 k-ohm resistor in that circuit, and just fixing the resistance in approximately the correct range. Might work.
 
#5 ·
#7 ·
Thanks! I've heard of Temu but never bought anything from them. All the similar parts on Amazon are Chinese knock-offs, so "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know".

I appreciate your searching for me.

Not disrespecting Santa Claus, but I had some wild hope that by posting my problem, some magical person would come back with "there is a guy named Joetheelectronicsguru who specializes in rebuilding those sensors". Ha!
 
#9 ·
I'd just grab the Amazon unit, install it and if it doesn't work send it back.
The T100's had the same problem in the 3.0 and no-one has found an option besides salvage yards.
I guess a certain one off a Volvo will work the the connector has to be de-pinned and rearranged.
These guys say they have one in a 4Runner, 1994 but should be the same. Salvage yards are getting $35 - $60 bucks. From car-part.com

Lee's Used Auto Parts, Inc. USA-TX(Alvin) 281-331-3314
1994
Air Flow Meter
Toyota 4Runner
 

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#10 · (Edited)
Thanks! I did order the one you linked from Amazon, and oddly enough I found the one at Lee's in Alvin and tried "live chat" with them - they are about 55 miles away and I thought Santa Claus had landed! Chat lady said they don't ship and did not respond when I wrote I could be there in an hour to pick it up. None of the other links on that page - that I clicked - seemed to go anywhere.

I miss Lane's Auto Parts - salvage yard in Rosenberg, TX that closed down after being there since cars were invented. They bailed me out repeatedly over the years, but time passes.

Amazon says Wednesday so we'll see.

I am a jerk, looking at the terminals (I took off the plastic cover on top) the two wires at E2 and THA are identical slide terminals that go down under a circuit board almost certainly straight to the actual temp sensor - so putting in a fixed resistor would be simple, if I could find one. Only problem is whether guessing and using a value 'in the middle of the proper range' might cause too-rich / too-lean and fry valves or something. It the Amazon one works I may 'risk' taking out the circuit board from the old one and seeing if I can get to the sensor; if I break it, it's already broke so no big loss.

At least I'm learning something about how these electronic things work. Growing up in the 50s and 60s, everything but the ignition coil was obvious how it worked by looking at it. Even voltage regulators had little solenoids in them, with contact points, so you could actually see how they worked.
 
#11 ·
I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving!

The Crow I'm about to eat is not going to taste as good as Turkey.

Long-story-short, the 'open circuit' reading was invalid, it was a consequence of my not knowing how to set the digital multimeter to 'autorange' by pressing a certain button. When I read the dmm manual and pushed that button, the E2-THA reading was correct or close to it - not open circuit.

So the AFM is not bad per the ohm readings in the Toyota Manual. My diagnosis is wrong, have to start over.

Lessons learned:
1) don't believe the CEL trouble code immediately.
2) don't jump to conclusions.
3) learn to use your measuring tools properly.
4) remember the difference between a mechanic and a 'parts replacer'.

Thank you for your time and support on this issue. I apologize for wasting your time.

Will post an update when I find out what the problem actually is.
 
#12 ·
Update:
Still do not know what was wrong, but the truck runs.

Yesterday morning I tried starting it and it started and ran normally. Cool day so temperature does not seem crucial. Ran it for half an hour at a time, driving out to the paved road and back and around the farm, several times during the day, and it started and ran fine. This morning same thing. Still says CEL 24 but no 14 anymore. So I do not know what the problem was or how it got 'fixed' - or if it will stay fixed.

The too-long details are at https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/question-about-troubleshooting-efi-with-volt-ohmmeter.1791928/
 
#13 ·
After being fine for a day or so, Monday morning the truck reverted to starting and then dying within a few seconds. Still CEL24 code. I got frustrated and re-measured the resistance between E2 and THA, setting the DMM properly to autorange.

The astute reader will note, in the image, that there are two (2) terminals marked E2, and the schematic says they are physically connected. One is third from Left, other is third from Right.

Image


Resistance between THA and E2 on the right was open-circuit, no matter autorange or not. THA to E2 on the right was about 2 k-ohms.

On the unit from Amazon that sdspeed linked to, the resistance between THA and E2 (both E2s, one at a time) was identical and 2.8 k-ohms. This makes sense, both E2 terminals come from the top of THA; unclear how they can be different on the original unit unless a wire is broken or terminal unsoldered. Unless it has something to do with what I'm taking as a variable resistor in the top of the that picture, that also seems connected to the wire between the two E2 terminals.

Enough! I put in the new unit and all good, for three days in a row, cold and rainy (today) as well as cool and dry (Monday and Tuesday).

Thank you all for your guidance and forebearance with someone who really does not 'get' any of this, and would be delighted to go back to a carburetor.

If I dissect the old Air Flow Meter and discover why the two E2 terminals are not connected, I'll post about it. And - I still can not explain why on certain days the truck started and ran fine.

Thank you again.