I think that motor was secretly a diesel! Lol. Mine does not sound like that... Was that motor tested at all? Hopefully you got one with the 90 day or 30,000 mi warranty.

 

I started to think so too lol. It was checked for oil leaks but wasn't tested prior to installation. After the install, there are no codes currently - just this sound that is noticeable. Luckily, it came with 6mo replacement warranty but no labor

 

Hi Everyone,

I am new to this forum and would like to get your thoughts if the sound at idle is normal for 2GR-FE highlander engines as this is my first highlander. I recently had an engine swap and was advised engine has 33K miles. please let me know if I should further investigate or this is nothing to be concerned of.

Engine warmed up at idle - hood closed
Engine warmed up at idle - hood open
Engine warmed up - higher rpm

Any thoughts on what this is will be appreciated. Thanks in advance

My 08 Highlander.

 

My 08 Highlander.

Thanks so much for posting. Runs very smooth and barely any engine sound / only sound from tires. Would you be kind to share (whenever it is convenient) how it sounds at idle?

 

I would try a can of additive to clean the valve lifters. Stop by your local NAPA dealer.

I doubt if this is a low mile engine. If you find a VIN number on it you maybe able to find out the real mileage through Carfax. Not sure if the VIN numbers are still used on engines.

My Highlander V6 and Camry 4 crlinder both have about 130K on them. 4 cylinder is very quiet compared to the V6, especially at start up. My V6 sounded like yours at start up until I added the additive.

 

Thanks for your response - I also added cold start up sound for reference as well. The knocking/ticking sound seems to be more noticeable when the engine is warmed up at operating temperature.

I will try the lifter cleaners after the first oil change (as I am planning to send the first sample for oil testing analysis). Any recommended brands that is known to help reduce lifter sound?

Engine was inspected visually for oil leaks and physical damage and unfortunately, it did not have any vin number on it to be able to verify the mileage.

 

Some very slight tick is normal. What you have is not normal "ticking" sound these engines make. That sounds like an engine that was run for it's entire life on the same sludged up oil.
I would try a couple of oil and filter changes with proper 0W-20 synthetic and see if it changes one way or the other. BTW rule out the belt tensioner as I have heard them sound like an engine ready to fail. But yeah that one knocks louder than the Kubota diesel tractor I looked at to buy the other day. Sorry

 

Some very slight tick is normal. What you have is not normal "ticking" sound these engines make. That sounds like an engine that was run for it's entire life on the same sludged up oil.
I would try a couple of oil and filter changes with proper 0W-20 synthetic and see if it changes one way or the other. BTW rule out the belt tensioner as I have heard them sound like an engine ready to fail. But yeah that one knocks louder than the Kubota diesel tractor I looked at to buy the other day. Sorry

Thanks for sharing. I used Pennzoil platinum fully synthetic 0w20 oil and Fram ultra synthetic oil filter. will do give a lifter cleaner a shot after the oil analysis. will also check the tensioner too!

 

My 2012 sounds the same at 120k, oil changed < 1k miles ago

 

Thanks for sharing. Sounds like my swapped engine could even be over 100K then

 

I too had an engine failure, it was likely the camshaft gear which is a weak point. I swapped in a used engine a few months ago and can verify that the VIN is on the block. When I shopped around, I correlated the block VIN to the car and got the service history that way. I did that for me now but will also be a + at resale.

The cold start sounds fine. I do hear something at idle, warm... a slight knocking sound. I would run it w/o the Serp belt installed and see if it changes. The answer to that will narrow things down quite a bit.

A great way to check the overall engine sludge condition is to remove the VVTi screens (either clean or replace). Very easy to do from up top, there's one on each bank behind the oil line banjo bolts.

Bob

 

I too had an engine failure, it was likely the camshaft gear which is a weak point. I swapped in a used engine a few months ago and can verify that the VIN is on the block. When I shopped around, I correlated the block VIN to the car and got the service history that way. I did that for me now but will also be a + at resale.

Bob

Hi Bob
Is the VIN number stamped into the block or is it on a sticker? If stamped somewhere, can you please tell us where or send a picture showing us?
Thank you

 

Here's some example 3.5 V6 Highlander cold starts (on my personal Toyota).
Part one:

Part two:

 

Thanks so much for sharing. I am even more convinced that engine I have doesn't have 33K miles

 

My 2010 Highlander with 76,000 mi makes a somewhat similar noise at idle after the engine has warmed up, but it's not as loud as yours. I don't hear it while driving around or even when sitting still if the rpms are revved a little. I don't hear it at start up or while the engine is warming up on high idle. The previous owner had the oil changed at the dealer every 5,000 miles, so I think it is not related to oil sludge or other abuse. While I find it mildly annoying, I'm not really worried about it. But I'm not a mechanic, so I could be wrong.

I've also heard a couple other 2GR engines that made similar noises. I remember reading something a while back about the 2GR-FE engines being noisy.

 

My 2010 Highlander with 76,000 mi makes a somewhat similar noise at idle after the engine has warmed up, but it's not as loud as yours. I don't hear it while driving around or even when sitting still if the rpms are revved a little. I don't hear it at start up or while the engine is warming up on high idle. The previous owner had the oil changed at the dealer every 5,000 miles, so I think it is not related to oil sludge or other abuse. While I find it mildly annoying, I'm not really worried about it. But I'm not a mechanic, so I could be wrong.

I've also heard a couple other 2GR engines that made similar noises. I remember reading something a while back about the 2GR-FE engines being noisy.

This is somewhat relieving to know. Yes, mine is very distinct and noticeable at idle when engine is at operating temperature

 

If all I am going by is that cap IMO that engine was NOT cared for. Either improper oil or no oil changes. If you looked at mine with 149k on it the engine it would be spotless. But mine has been serviced timely (every 5k) and with only Mobil 1 0w20 going back to the day it was put in service.

 

I think so too 😕

 

There are several regular maintenance things you can do , to miminize this.

Use Chevron Techtron cleaner in your gas.
Change oil and filter and use quality oil such as Penzoil Platinum Syn 5-30 or 0-20 and toyota brand filter.
Clean your throttle body with Throttle body cleaner and clean MAP sensor with MAP cleaner (instructions are on this forum).
Make sure you have a Clean quality air filter.
Clean or replace PCV valve. Only replace with Toyota orginial.
Make sure you dont have any loose vacuum hoses.
Replace sparkplugs, if over 100k miles. Only use denso or toyota.
Use good name brand gas.

 

Thank you. I will definitely use OEM Toyota oil filter. and I can use Chevron cleaner without having to wait for oil testing analysis, as I think it will not interfere with the results. I actually just fixed one of the broken vacuum hose connection to air box and changed the filter while at it. PCV valve & spark plug recommendation for the sound or avoiding sludge?

 

Something to consider is when you have noise, you have excessive wear. The lifter uses a cushion of oil to reduce the clearance between the parts in your valve train so they do not hammer on each other. The noise is caused when there is excessive clearance and they collide with each other.

Many people say do not use additives. Your engine was abused and oil was not changes regularly (as you can see by looking at the crud on your oil filler cap). It will not go away on its own by using a quality synthetic oil. I change my oil at 5K intervals for 40K miles and proved this (previous 80K was done at 10K mile intervals).

As noted earlier I have the same engine, 125K miles and adding a detergent additive cleaned the lifters and eliminated the lifter noise. The noise was reduced within 2 days and gone within a month. If your noise is coming from the top side of the engine, you may want to try the same.

 

Something to consider is when you have noise, you have excessive wear. The lifter uses a cushion of oil to reduce the clearance between the parts in your valve train so they do not hammer on each other. The noise is caused when there is excessive clearance and they collide with each other.

Many people say do not use additives. Your engine was abused and oil was not changes regularly (as you can see by looking at the crud on your oil filler cap). It will not go away on its own by using a quality synthetic oil. I change my oil at 5K intervals for 40K miles and proved this (previous 80K was done at 10K mile intervals).

As noted earlier I have the same engine, 125K miles and adding a detergent additive cleaned the lifters and eliminated the lifter noise. The noise was reduced within 2 days and gone within a month. If your noise is coming from the top side of the engine, you may want to try the same.

Totally agree - it will not going on its own as it seems to be sludge built up over long period of time. With the theory of oil being cushion to reduce clearance, this also can mean thicker oil can help too. I also read transmission oil being used to clean the lifters / cams. Any thoughts?

 

The cheapest and easiest thing to try to quiet the engine is use a Toyota OEM oil filter. I've done oil changes myself in all my vehicles over the years and never had a problem until I changed the oil in my 2013 Venza at 66,000 miles and used a different oil filter. For some reason, I bought what I thought was a good quality oil filter at Autozone. After the oil change the engine noise was night-and-day noticeably louder. The ticking was definitely worse at idle and you could hear it easily from inside the car. I read through some forums and immediately went back to a Toyota OEM filter. The noise was gone immediately. Just my 2 cents...

 

Very interesting. I will definitely use OEM oil filter. They are actually much cheaper than Fram Ultra Synthetic and easily available at local shops or online. What was the oil you used in your Venza? I will test 5w-30 first then maybe 10w-30 to see if it makes any difference too. Any preference Pennzoil Platinum 0w20 or Mobil 1 0w-20 extended performance? I have been driving for a week now; I was really hoping sound to go away as engine is breaking in but still same

 

Your engine doesn't sound that bad honestly. Mine has 185k km and sounds similar. If it doesn't burn oil then just maintain it properly and you'll be fine for years.

 

That is relieving to hear. Thanks for sharing

 

my engine, not too bad
Engine Warmed Up

 

For some reason, link doesn't open

 

300500- If you use an additive, can you please respond back letting us know what you did and if it worked?
There are folks here who say they do not work while in my case it obviously did.

 

After driving 2 weeks; I have taken oil sample and sent it to lab for analysis yesterday. I was initially planning only taking the oil sample but I realized oil looked very muddy brown color so I ended up changing the oil. First thing I did is to use OEM Toyota oil filter and switched both oil brand and viscosity from Pennzoil Platinum 0w-20 to Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w-30. I switched oil brands because I always used M1EP without any issues before for years and increased the viscosity to help remedy any piston slap and considering summer is around the corner and 0w-20 is used mainly for fuel saving (which is not my priority even though I get 15-16mpg 😐).

After oil change, It ran much smoother but the slight knocking sound was still there. So I first added 200ml Valvoline Synthetic ATF-4 drove for a bit, observed no change, then added another 200ml drove around for a bit and observe no change. Next day, I added the remaining of ATF (totaling to 1QT) and drove around for 30-50 miles before doing the next oil change within same day. After driving for a while, I changed the oil again with Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w-30 and OEM Toyota Oil Filter, and it did quite the engine bit more but slight knocking is still there at idle - and no change when revving from 800 to 1800 rpm.

Root cause seems to be - based on general consensus here too - is that engine I was sold has many more miles than 31K. Junkyard promised to sent me engine with 43k miles but sent me engine with over 100K miles instead and refusing the cover the labor. I am reluctant to do another swap because of the cost implications and the experience I had dealing with this specific junkyard (they tried to sell me the same engine I bought twice at first, and already asking for the engine with knocking sound to possibly to sell someone else). I'm considering all options, including legal, on how to proceed next. My plan for this engine though is to drive it with the sound as it is until it breaks apart (whenever that may be) as I have invested over $3.5K so far for swapping engine excluding time and stress.

 

I just saw this post and I'm a little concerned because I bought a 2012 about a year ago and it sounds the same 78k miles. I thought this was the normal sound for these engines. I had couple ES's shortly with this engine and they sounded about the same, maybe little quieter. This Highlander's previous owners never towed, no hitch, elderly 1 owner, and had all the oil changes. It also appears the user that posted about his 2013 idle in a different thread sounds the same as this one and mine. So my question is why is everyone saying this sounds like a bad engine? Can people post some audio of the hood open on their same gen (preferably if it's been running on 0w-20, unless they've been using that since '08 unlike the Avalon)? Almost wondering if I should trade it now if this is actual a serious engine issue. I had planned to keep it for over 300k miles.

Thanks

 

I don't think using 0w-20 is a guideline written in stone, especially current user manual recommends 5w-20 oil alongside. To my understanding, 0w grade oil is strictly recommended by manufacturers to improve fuel economy, therefore meeting emission requirements. Also, based on the readings I have done in various forums, Toyota also recommends 10w-30 oil for same 2GR-FE engine in Europe?

If the trade in will cost you more than $3.5K (avg. cost of used engine and labor) and if you like your current HL, my recommendation would favor keeping it but at the same time saving into separate fund just for engine swap in case of any failure.

Interesting read:

Any one running thicker oil than manual recommends?

My mechanic(service manager at toyota w/ a side business) was telling me he puts thicker oil in toyotas than what the manual states(0-w20) because he has toyotas with blown engines coming in with 120k on them and he blames the thinner oil for this. So my question is, would it hurt to run a...

www.toyotanation.com

HL Manual:

 

I used about a 1/3 quart of the transmission fluid. It has been in there about 2 months now (over 1500 miles) with no lifter noise or engine problems. If you decide to try it again, i would leave it in a while for the chemicals to break down the varnish in the lifters. It may also help unclog the screens in the 2 oil passages feeding oil to lubricate the lifters and cam bearings in the heads if clogged. There is a post saying how to change the screens if you want to try it.

Is you knocking noise coming from the under the engine or top of the engine? if under, it could be a loose bearing in which case nothing will fix this.

 

Thank you. Yes, I am planning on keep using 1/2QT ATF 500miles before doing each oil change. While doing the oil change after driving with transmission oil, I found some particles on a 1 day old oil filter. I am assuming it is breaking off the sludge inside the transmission - in that case, might take longer to clean

That's also a really good point. I will have to disconnect each ignition coil to see if it makes a difference. I didn't do that yet because of check engine light coming with the misfire once ignition coil removed.

1 day old filter, Oil contained 1QT transmission oil in it driven for a day:

 

Here is a question you should consider. Does the 2GR-FE have lifters? But before you answer that question, ask yourself this. Is the 2GR-FE a pushrod type engine or does it use an overhead cam type engine? Guess which one the 2GR-FE is.

 

You are correct in some sense. If you look it up on Rock Auto the section it is under states "valve lifter" while the actual title on the part is "hydraulic lash adjuster". It operates in the same manner- has an internal piston and valve which uses oil to take up the play in the valve train and eliminate noise.
If it gets gummed up or does not receive enough oil because the screen feeding the oil is partially clogged, it can not do its job and you get a ticking noise.

Link below shows the small moving parts inside the lash adjuster which can gum up.

Hydraulic lash adjusters

<p>Eaton's hydraulic lash adjusters are specifically designed to automatically adjust valve lash ensuring precise valve seating, optimized engine air flow, and precise fuel management. Our hydraulic lash adjusters ensure stable valvetrain operation during engine life, are maintenance free, and...

www.eaton.com

2013 TOYOTA HIGHLANDER 3.5L V6 Valve Lifter | Shop Now at RockAuto

Engine Parts and More for Your 2013 TOYOTA HIGHLANDER at Reliably Low Prices. Fast Online Catalog. DIY-Easy. Your Choice of Quality. Full Manufacturer Warranty.

www.rockauto.com

 

The old wives tale about ATF is just that. An old wives tale. ATF is not formulated to stand up to the extreme heat inside an engine (especially up around the pistons and stuff). This old myth got started WAY back in the late 40's and 50's and at the time MAY have been helpful. But it has long ago outlived it's usefulness especially on today's very stressed out engines compared to the lazy dirty engines of that day and age. At best it's just dumb at worst can cause more damage than you think it will help.
There is a valid reason 0w20 oil is specified over and above fuel economy. More having to do with flow characteristics. Someone actually put an excellent video up here specifically addressing all the armchair engineers on this. I forgot who and don't see the link at the moment.
Bottom line NOTHING you put in the crankcase will FIX a bad engine. NOTHING! OP it seems you may have a bad engine. All you can hope to do is mask that but you will not FIX it unless it's torn down and rebuilt.
If your goal is simply to mask it you may find less damage will occur if you simply use the CORRECT oil and turn up your radio. But bottom line you may be doing more harm than good here.

 

There is a valid reason 0w20 oil is specified over and above fuel economy. More having to do with flow characteristics. Someone actually put an excellent video up here specifically addressing all the armchair engineers on this. I forgot who and don't see the link at the moment.

Owners manual:
"An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions.", so... no armchairing. All parts in the Avalon 2gr-fe are the same, which specifies 5w-30.
Considering most of us drive 70+ on highway these days, seems 30 is what Toyota is recommending unless you only drive in the city.

 

Transmission fluids do not have any extra chemicals to clean an engine. That is an ol' wives tale. Since ATF doesn't have to deal with combustion byproducts, its has a lower dosage of detergents and dispersants when compared to cheap motor oil.

The 2gr in my '08 recommends 5w20 for non tow package and 5w30 for tow package. So, explain why the engine, when equipped with an oil cooler/heater, needs a thicker oil? I do miss the 5k mile recommended intervals. I've seen nothing but problems from automakers recommending longer intervals. My 2gr in the '11 is a different vehicle and Toyota recommends 5w30 only but some claim 5w20 backspec'd. The 2gr in the '16 recommends 0w20. And, there is no difference in these engines. The 08 and 11 recommend 5000 mile changes. The '16 recommends 10000 mile changes. In foreign markets, the 2gr can take 10w30, 15w40, 20w50..... There is no difference in the engines. So, weather permitting, you can use whatever grade you want.

And, there is no issue with thicker oil flowing thru the screens. Your 0w20 COLD is thicker than a 20w50 HOT.

No need for the Toyota oil filter and never has been... conventional cellulose media is slowing heading into obsolescence, about 30 years too late.

Can mask some noises with thicker oils. I run the gauntlet of high HTHS 5w30's, 0w40's 5w40's, 10w40's... in mine. Just consider weather/temps and don't go overboard. And, as always, run synthetic oil.

I only recommend synthetic oil. There is no 'magical' brand of oil. So, use whatever brands you want and there is no issue with alternating among the brands.

Conventional oil is slowly heading into obsolescence.... about 30 years too late.

If you think your engine is dirty, then shorten your oil change interval considerably, use quality current spec oils and synthetic media filters.

Clean your VVT screens. If they are dirty, then your maintenance is lacking. Pull a rocker cover and inspect for sludge. If there is any sludge, then your maintenance is lacking. You reap what you sow with your noisy dirty engine.

 

All of these replies are great, but it’s made me wonder about one thing: the possibility that two engines that roll off the same line, one after the other, are not 100% identical. I’m talking about machining and processing tolerances over time and the possibility that all motors of a certain batch are totally and completely identical. I would argue they are not, but I don’t know anyone on an assembly line that builds motors. So your motor might be bullet proof and quiet and yet another guy’s might be slightly “tickier”, BUT then again we are discussing maintenance and the possibility someone was sold something that the other person was dishonest about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

If you want to learn about motor oil ratings, viscosity etc, go to the expert.

Motor Oil 101 - Chapter One - Operating Temperatures and Viscosity - Bob is the Oil Guy

Chapter One Understanding what viscosity grades mean can be confusing. The average driver just tries to follow what is in the owner’s manual – this is a good practice. Some owner’s manuals allow for different grades based on the predicted operating temperature. For example, they may specify a...

bobistheoilguy.com