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LED fog lights - explain it like I'm 5..

16K views 71 replies 12 participants last post by  AlaricD  
#1 · (Edited)
I've had my '15 S Plus a week so be patient, I'm still learning this car.

It has the halogen fog lights. They are dim and dont match the LED headlights. I want the fog lights to match and have much better output.

Where I get confused is I see retrofit kits out there (Morimoto) and I see people buying Phillips LED bulbs and from what I gather Toyota themselves may offer them. I'm sure you're familiar with this youtube video of an install.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fcvdLxncrI

So, what is the most direct answer to my problem of low light output and non-matching fog lights to my headlights? I want plug & play or at least an easy install.

thanks!
 
#2 ·
#4 ·
I have the Philips LED which I got here: [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Philips-12834UNIX2-X-tremeVision-Lamp-pack/dp/B00U2NHLTI/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1435210809&sr=1-3&keywords=philips+led[/ame]


The brightness will be doubled and will match the LED low beam. Very easy to install, just like changing a regular bulb.
 
#7 ·
The Philips 12834UNIX2 X-tremeVision are a good choice BUT you just can't go wrong with the Morimoto XB LED fog lights. like Kobyg91 said

"unbolt the factory ones plug in the new ones and bolt them up and your good to go. I got a set of B stock (have minor imperfections, although mine were in perfect condition) for 70 bucks instead of the normal 170 list price."
 
#10 ·
The morimoto kit will put the light in a better spot in front of the car, more focused i guess. the bulbs in the stock reflector housings will scatter the light more causing less to go where you want, also there is a chance they will burn/ melt the stock housings since they will produce more heat.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Please tell me if this is an insane move, but I believe I will go that route of simply installing the Phillips LED bulbs. The 2 reasons I think this is better than other reasons are its cheaper $120 vs $170 (morimoto) and apparently the morimoto is not an exact fit and I have to say... I'm an exact fit kinda guy. lol

* Auer Automotive LED upgrade $239 Too expensive
* Morimoto LED upgrade: $170 Not a perfect fit, but a good choice
* Philips X-treme Ultinon LED bulb $120 Cheapest, and great bulbs but stock reflectors
 
#22 ·
* Auer Automotive LED upgrade $239 Too expensive
* Morimoto LED upgrade: $170 Not a perfect fit, but a good choice
* Philips X-treme Ultinon LED bulb $120 Cheapest, and great bulbs but stock reflectors[/QUOTE]

Morimoto is an exact fit you just have to wire the connector up, and i would advise waiting till they have a set come in the closeout section on the retrofit source for having "slight imperfections".

Some guys are also running the Nokya LED Bulbs, not sure of pricing or anything though.
 
#25 ·
It has the halogen fog lights. They are dim and dont match the LED headlights. I want the fog lights to match and have much better output.
The fog lamps don't need to match anything-- they are fog lamps and only should be used in heavy fog and at very low speeds. They are bright enough, being made to the apposite SAE standards for fog lamps. Unless it's very foggy, and you're going 25mph maximum, leave them switched off.

Where I get confused is I see retrofit kits out there (Morimoto) and I see people buying Phillips LED bulbs and from what I gather Toyota themselves may offer them. I'm sure you're familiar with this youtube video of an install.
Morimoto sure sounds Japanese, but it's not a Japanese company and their products do not belong in automotive lighting.


So, what is the most direct answer to my problem of low light output and non-matching fog lights to my headlights? I want plug & play or at least an easy install.
The output is not low. The output is correct for a fog lamp.
They don't need to match.
There's no simpler solution than to NOT install anything.
 
#26 ·
I forgot to mention that the LED headlamps in your car are quite excellent-- their performance eliminates the need for fog lamps in the first place (the low beams have a very wide beam and excellent glare control). Sure, these fog lamps conform to the new (and better) J2510 specification, but the headlamps are really all you need.

Fog lamps are merely an extra because people don't understand fog lamps and can't stand to buy a car without every possible option. If someone doesn't can't get a Corolla with fog lamps, they'll run out and get a (say it isn't SO) Civic with fog lamps instead. Or a Subaru, or any other number of competing vehicles. So, the option is still available in the hopes of snagging an extra sale, or perhaps to get someone to upgrade to the next higher model grade because it comes with fog lamps!

Remember, if fog lamps *really* improved the fog driving experience, they'd be Federally-regulated and perhaps *required* items.
 
#27 ·
Okay, I feel like I should clarify my reasoning for a fog light upgrade. If I end up moving to the extremely rural mountains of Western North Carolina, fog lights of stock nature would certainly help me out in their daily foggy weather conditions. Until I move there, I simply wanted to upgrade for aesthetics. I think the car would look nice with white LED fog lights and the standard LED low beams at night. So, just for looks.


If I indeed move to NC, a more functional solution to a real problem would be the OEM fog lights so, if I do the LED upgrade, I can always go back to halogens.
 
#33 ·
Dang I'm just getting these

I don't use my fog lights to see anything, I think the headlights light up everything sufficiently. I just like the look of the 4 lights but want the color to match better.

In my case, it doesn't seem like there's any benefit to getting LED fogs... right?

I'd rather spend $30 than $150+
 
#35 ·
I just like the look of the 4 lights but want the color to match better.
If you are using your fog lamps when they aren't needed, especially at highway speeds, you are doing it wrong.


I'm not sure who you're trying to impress; people who understand fog lamps are certainly not impressed when they see them misused.


In my case, it doesn't seem like there's any benefit to getting LED fogs... right?

None whatsoever. Save your fashion statement for a paint job or a new shirt.
 
#43 ·
Well-known, maybe. But respected? I find it hard to respect them because they can't get the bulb designations correct. That, and they sell that blue-coated bulb nonsense, and claim it's brighter (it can't be-- the wavelengths passed by some of their deeper blue filters comprise only 15% of the filament's actual output! They throw 85% of the light away!).


I might be tempted to get their yellow bulbs to at least try some photometric testing on, and maybe pass them along to my friend who has fog lamps and just never uses them anyway, but other than that, I can't find much to respect. There's much less harm in the yellow bulbs than the blue ones-- the wavelengths passed by the yellow filter comprise about 85% of the beam-- and in a lamp that's scarcely used except when conditions really call for it, the light loss is not an issue.


They also sell ridiculously overwattage bulbs (that probably still can't meet their advertised wattage ratings) with overly-large, sloppily-placed filaments that result in a horrifically defocused beam. Then there's their claims for other bulbs that "55W=80W", which just absolutely violates the laws of physics- 55 watts is 55 watts. (Not to mention that the light output of a bulb is described in lumens, not wattage. Wattage is just a power input rating.)
 
#47 ·
Just saying - the new Corollas are what tends to annoy me (and I like the cars) - mainly when one is behind me and it hits a dip in the road and is going uphill when I am level so the light reflects into the rear-view mirror.

Not stirring the pot, but I think we are also mis-using terms.

You are referring to true fog lights.

Most cars DO NOT come with fog lights - what the OEMs and most lay-people call fog lights and want for fog lights have a white beam and tend to light up the outside of the road and would more properly be referred to as DRIVING lights.

Not sure if that changes your feelings on how/when they should be used and would appreciate your comments ...
 
#50 · (Edited)
Just saying - the new Corollas are what tends to annoy me (and I like the cars) - mainly when one is behind me and it hits a dip in the road and is going uphill when I am level so the light reflects into the rear-view mirror.
The new Corolla headlamps put out quite a bit of light, keeping light out of the glare zone. As with any high-performance headlamp, there will be instances (such as in your particular illustration) that your rear-view mirror becomes the target of the headlamps, rather than the roadway and the objects that would be ordinarily outside of the glare zone and in the main beam. There's also the potential for more specular glare-- the light reflecting off of the road surface itself.


Not stirring the pot, but I think we are also mis-using terms.

You are referring to true fog lights.

Most cars DO NOT come with fog lights - what the OEMs and most lay-people call fog lights and want for fog lights have a white beam and tend to light up the outside of the road and would more properly be referred to as DRIVING lights.
No, what the OEMs call fog lamps are fog lamps. For the North American market, they build them to conform to SAE J583 (for a time, there was an SAE J2510, but that spec is now part of SAE J583.). The lenses will be marked F or F3-- fog lamps made to the old SAE J583 spec will be F; if made to J2510 or the current J583, will be marked F3). (F2 is reserved for the *rear* fog lamp; the F is for "fog", not "front".) (Whether the fog lamps perform *well* is another story; there's quite a bit of room in the standards for objectively good and objectively poor fog lamps.)

What people colloquially call "driving lights" are actually "auxiliary high beam lamps"; *no* cars come with auxiliary high beams. Auxiliary high beam lamps are made to conform to SAE J581, and will be marked with a Y.
Occasionally, you'll see references to "fog/driving lights" in marketing material, such as from Sylvania; marketers' misspeak often ends up in consumers' vocabularies, but when their vocabulary differs from the official designation, it is the official designation that is authoritative. (For example, when Nokya claims there are two H16 types. Nokya is wrong-- there's only one H16, not two, yet the notion of there being two H16s starts permeating the consumers' minds.)

Not sure if that changes your feelings on how/when they should be used and would appreciate your comments ...
It doesn't change my feelings about when/how they should be used-- fog lamps are fog lamps, for low-speed nighttime fog/heavy rainfall/heavy snowfall -- not for daytime use. They aren't for spotting deer on the shoulders of the road, they're for picking out the lane markings so you don't end up going off into a ditch or crossing over into oncoming traffic.

Auxiliary high beams are used in conjunction with the factory high beams, only at night, only in *clear weather*, and in the absence of other traffic.
 
#51 ·
Actual, true fog lights that are meant to cut through fog
[pic unquoted]
What the modern world accepts as fog lights is usually just a lower, dimmer set of lights.
No, fog lamps are not meant to "cut through fog". Fog lamps "cutting through fog" is one of those myths that just will just not die!
(Fog lamps are also the most the most misused lamps on a car: http://papers.sae.org/970657/ (Read the rest of the paper, not just the abstract))

What the modern world accepts as fog lamps are fog lamps constructed to either SAE J583 or SAE J251(in North America) with SAE J2510 being better, or UN Regulation R19. (There's also the ADR but two continents is enough for now.) These lamps produce a bar-shaped, and wide, beam of light, with a sharp vertical cutoff (you might also see "horizontal cutoff"-- indeed, the cutoff is horizontal but it limits light in the vertical direction. A little esoterica for you.) While fog lamps may occasionally use Selective Yellow, it's not the light color that determines the performance, it's the beam pattern. It's true that Selective Yellow is easier for our eyes to process than white light, but both white light and Selective Yellow light will exhibit the same backscatter in the fog. This is why it's the beam shape that is most important-- a Selective Yellow high beam in the fog is worse than a plain white low beam in the same fog density. Glare control is the issue here.

All fog lamps need to do is to show you the road edges and the lane markings, and the very immediate foreground. This makes them quite unsuitable for being lit at highway speeds no matter what the weather. They will make it much harder to see as far as you need to be able to see. Choosing "looking cool" over "seeing well enough to drive" is choosing... poorly.
 
#53 ·
I've seen quite a bit of misinformation from people trying to sell something. Yes, selective yellow is better than white in fog, but either one can cause glare. I tell ya, it's the myth that never dies :)

http://mirlyn.lib.umich.edu/F/?func=direct&doc_number=005446195&local_base=UMTRI_PUB and http://mirlyn.lib.umich.edu/F/?func=direct&doc_number=005457264&local_base=UMTRI_PUB are two fairly dry papers that go into quite a bit of detail about light color. Then there's http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/handle/2027.42/49444 and http://web.archive.org/web/20090514062609/http://ntlsearch.bts.gov/tris/record/tris/00640036.html, and studies done like this http://www.lightingresearch.org/programs/transportation/pdf/SAE/2001-01-0320.pdf

Unfortunately, it's really difficult to get a good yellow light from a fog lamp unless the reflector or the lens is the right color-- we can't use cadmium glass anymore because cadmium is a particularly nasty metal.

Now, we're probably all familiar with French and their yellow headlamps-- there are a lot of myths as to why they required them for so many years, but it was based on 1936 legislation requiring road-illumination lamps (headlamps, fog lamps) on all vehicles to emit Selective Yellow light. This legislation was based on advice from the French Central Commission for Automobiles and Traffic; this was based on experiments done by the French Academy of Sciences. They concluded that Selective Yellow light is less glaring than white. Nope, not because of military needs as some might have you believe.

As far as kerosene vs. electric or even acetylene lamps, that's some kind of urban legend with no factual basis.