Thanks for the detailed comparison. In regards to vacuuming the carpet, you might like to consider getting a plastic/rubber floor cover, such as from MaxPider and WeatherTech, which also covers the rear floor hump as one piece. If you regularly vacuum such as I do, you will notice the carpet eventually wearing from the vacuuming itself, the floor covers will protect the carpet from that.

In comparing platforms, a lot of people forget that newer platforms must conform to higher crash safety standards, thanks in large part to the IIHS (versus the completely inept NHTSA), who was the first to institute the difficult small overlap frontal collision test, among other things. Toyota emphasizes this fact when discussing TNGA-K when it was first introduced (“crash testing takes the longest (in developing a new platform)”), and there is no doubt the older K platforms would do poorly in this area.

In regards to the powertrain, if you appreciate 6 cylinders, you have to try BMW's beautiful inline 6, that engine is much more "swift and energetic" to the comparably lethargic 2gr, and ironically Toyota's last remaining 6 cylinder in the Supra next to the Tundra. Glad to hear the UA80 8 speed in your specific Avalon feels more refined, I've earlier made a post about the dreaded Aisin 8-speed automatics, nevertheless an increasingly moot point as we transition to the all-hybrid/BEV era, with the Hybrid-Max models even reverting back to the 6-speed (no doubt strengthened to handle the increased power).

 

As a prospective new owner of an Avalon, I’m really having trouble choosing between the gen 4 and 5 versions. I really appreciate your detailed report concerning the differences. I just test drove a 2020 and I was very impressed. The gen 4 is obviously quite a bit less $ and if the handling is comparable I would make due with the less attractive styling. The visa illy was outstanding and it’s good to hear the gen 4 is not bad either. Many thanks for the info as it’s helping me decide.

 

I drove a few 4th gens a long time ago and thought the ride and/or seats were not comfortable (something I read in reviews, too).

 

Ended up trading my 15 Mustang Ecoboost convertible for a 2020 XLE. I thought I would miss it. Nope. What a beautiful comfy sporty and almost as fast car!

 

Greetings all,

I just want to throw some observations out there living with these two generations of the former Toyota flagship:

I find that the 4th gen interior is definitely more upscale and the materials are of higher quality. Especially the carpet! To me the carpet is a big deal because I find the 4th gen carpet easy to vacuum as the fibers don't really hold onto debris. On the 5th gen, the carpet really likes to hold onto debris. It took me an hour+ to properly vacuum out the car. I went through 3 6amp/hr batteries with the green tool vacuum. Now admittedly, most people aren't anal like me as I vacuum out the 4th gen at least 5 times a week during the 2am hour lol. I won't have that problem in the future as I don't carry passengers and that first vacuum session is always the hardest.

Due to the change going from the old but still wonderful k platform to the tnga-k platform, the flat floor is gone. That hump is a hassle to deal with when vacuuming. The 4th gen floor pan is much flatter.

The interior dome lights on the 5th gen are quite a bit smaller then the 4th gen. Now they are factory leds on the 5th gen vs incandescent from the factory on the 4th gen. I upgraded all the lighting (dome, door panels, reverse, trunk, high and low beams, front turn signal/marker) on the 4th gen to led. It is interesting to see how much darker the lit up at night interior is comparing the 4th and 5th gen.

When checking the coolant and washer fluid levels on the 5th gen, be wary of the front splitter. It juts out quite a bit and is more than happy to say hello to your shin! The washer fluid bottle is completely buried in the inner fender well on the 5th gen. All that is exposed is the filler neck so you must use caution when filling and must pour slowly as you cant see the level in the bottle unlike the 4th gen.

The oem floor and trunk liners are rubber on the 4th gen vs plastic on the 5th gen.

The sheet metal is very flexy on the 5th gen. Especially the hood and front fender.

I've read that people complain about the lack of head room on the 5th gen and the difficulty of getting in and out. I had no such issues. But then again, I'm only 5'8 lol and I prefer the seat to be at the lowest position no matter what vehicle I drive.

I actually found visibility a bit better on the 5th gen if you can believe that! Specifically a pillar and rearward visibility. Sometimes things would get lost in the a pillar on the 4th gen but i don't have that problem on the 5th gen due to the thinner and more upright a pillar.

The rear glass is less raked and more upright on the 5th gen so rearward visibility is improved.

I was saddened to see the plastic rear parcel shelf on the 4 gen replaced with a fabric/carpeted shelf on the 5th gen. If you drive with the windows open, eventually it will get dusty back there and on the 4th gen, a wipe with a damp towel and the parcel shelf is all clean. Now it is not easy to reach back there or clean the inside of the rear glass but removing the rear head rests and kneeling on the seat most certainly helps!

The rear seats fold on the 5th gen so that's a +. Trunk space is the same between the 2 at 16 cu. ft.

Driving Impressions:

I've always liked the handling of the 4th gen. I've read in many reviews where the 4th gen is praised for its smooth and nimble handling. I've also read that it represented a great step forward in terms of handling over the similarly k platformed 2nd and 3rd gens. Now I've never driven a 2nd or 3rd gen so I cant comment on the handling improvement but I've always found the 4th gen drove smaller than its size. The only time its 195 inches would show up for me is in certain parking spaces.

The 5th gen handling is incredible! What ever little slack that remained in the 4th gen handling was eliminated in the 5th gen. It is almost like the car is on rails and I drive the least handling oriented version, the XLE. Things were definitely tightened up but not at the expense of ride comfort. Its got the same complaint ride of a 16-18 4th gen XLE. I guess that is the advantage of tnga-k vs k platform I suppose.

I know when Toyota first came out with the UA80 8 speed, it was an absolute cluster fudge and the spinning blades were flinging excrement every which way. The complaints of weird shifting funky and clunky characteristics were abound. Especially for those were were used to the flawless and seamless operation of the U660 6 speed.

Fortunately, my particular 2021's transmission works perfectly. I can only assume that Toyota was able to work the kinks out with a couple years time. That's why I wanted a 21-22 5th gen. The only thing I notice compared to the 4th gen and the U660, when driving around town at part throttle, I find I have to use a bit more throttle to replicate the acceleration curve I'm used to on the 4th gen. I would describe the feeling as driving a vehicle after having put in a higher stall converter if that makes sense. I'm not light on the throttle, I like to keep it moving. Driving with purpose is what I call my driving style.

I find that the 4th gen doesn't torque steer that often whereas the 5th gen is more than happy to lol.

On the 5th gen, Toyota somehow managed to improve the engine mounting and dampening that you don't feel any vibrations though the steering wheel of the 2gr-fks one bit! On the 4th gen, you could barely and I mean barely feel any vibrations of the 2gr-fe through the steering wheel when warmed up.

The 2gr in either one sounds great at full tilt and speaks in hushed silken tones when driving normally. That's why I love the V6 hence my username. The 2gr is a smooth operator. Sad that Toyota is phasing out this wonderful motor though I know it not by choice. Efficiency and lower emissions is the name of the game so the smooth and bullet proof 2gr v6 and UR series v8's became victims.

Both are swift and energetic.

Sorry for the long winded post. I think I've covered everything. It might sound like I'm knocking the 5th gen but I'm not. I would not have purchased one in cash no less if I didn't like the car. I just can't help but notice where Toyota cut corners as compared to the 4th gen that still lives with me.

I like big v6 powered reliable sedans. Unfortunately this is a dying to dead market for that type of vehicle.

I'm not gonna lie, my first choice was to buy another low mileage 4th gen but I couldn't find one in my area. If I could have gotten a new custom made 4th gen from TMMK, I would have done that lol. People understandably just don't let them go. They are that good. Hell, I got my 5th gen from out of state! There are not that many certified Avalon's out there!

Greetings all,

I just want to throw some observations out there living with these two generations of the former Toyota flagship:

I find that the 4th gen interior is definitely more upscale and the materials are of higher quality. Especially the carpet! To me the carpet is a big deal because I find the 4th gen carpet easy to vacuum as the fibers don't really hold onto debris. On the 5th gen, the carpet really likes to hold onto debris. It took me an hour+ to properly vacuum out the car. I went through 3 6amp/hr batteries with the green tool vacuum. Now admittedly, most people aren't anal like me as I vacuum out the 4th gen at least 5 times a week during the 2am hour lol. I won't have that problem in the future as I don't carry passengers and that first vacuum session is always the hardest.

Due to the change going from the old but still wonderful k platform to the tnga-k platform, the flat floor is gone. That hump is a hassle to deal with when vacuuming. The 4th gen floor pan is much flatter.

The interior dome lights on the 5th gen are quite a bit smaller then the 4th gen. Now they are factory leds on the 5th gen vs incandescent from the factory on the 4th gen. I upgraded all the lighting (dome, door panels, reverse, trunk, high and low beams, front turn signal/marker) on the 4th gen to led. It is interesting to see how much darker the lit up at night interior is comparing the 4th and 5th gen.

When checking the coolant and washer fluid levels on the 5th gen, be wary of the front splitter. It juts out quite a bit and is more than happy to say hello to your shin! The washer fluid bottle is completely buried in the inner fender well on the 5th gen. All that is exposed is the filler neck so you must use caution when filling and must pour slowly as you cant see the level in the bottle unlike the 4th gen.

The oem floor and trunk liners are rubber on the 4th gen vs plastic on the 5th gen.

The sheet metal is very flexy on the 5th gen. Especially the hood and front fender.

I've read that people complain about the lack of head room on the 5th gen and the difficulty of getting in and out. I had no such issues. But then again, I'm only 5'8 lol and I prefer the seat to be at the lowest position no matter what vehicle I drive.

I actually found visibility a bit better on the 5th gen if you can believe that! Specifically a pillar and rearward visibility. Sometimes things would get lost in the a pillar on the 4th gen but i don't have that problem on the 5th gen due to the thinner and more upright a pillar.

The rear glass is less raked and more upright on the 5th gen so rearward visibility is improved.

I was saddened to see the plastic rear parcel shelf on the 4 gen replaced with a fabric/carpeted shelf on the 5th gen. If you drive with the windows open, eventually it will get dusty back there and on the 4th gen, a wipe with a damp towel and the parcel shelf is all clean. Now it is not easy to reach back there or clean the inside of the rear glass but removing the rear head rests and kneeling on the seat most certainly helps!

The rear seats fold on the 5th gen so that's a +. Trunk space is the same between the 2 at 16 cu. ft.

Driving Impressions:

I've always liked the handling of the 4th gen. I've read in many reviews where the 4th gen is praised for its smooth and nimble handling. I've also read that it represented a great step forward in terms of handling over the similarly k platformed 2nd and 3rd gens. Now I've never driven a 2nd or 3rd gen so I cant comment on the handling improvement but I've always found the 4th gen drove smaller than its size. The only time its 195 inches would show up for me is in certain parking spaces.

The 5th gen handling is incredible! What ever little slack that remained in the 4th gen handling was eliminated in the 5th gen. It is almost like the car is on rails and I drive the least handling oriented version, the XLE. Things were definitely tightened up but not at the expense of ride comfort. Its got the same complaint ride of a 16-18 4th gen XLE. I guess that is the advantage of tnga-k vs k platform I suppose.

I know when Toyota first came out with the UA80 8 speed, it was an absolute cluster fudge and the spinning blades were flinging excrement every which way. The complaints of weird shifting funky and clunky characteristics were abound. Especially for those were were used to the flawless and seamless operation of the U660 6 speed.

Fortunately, my particular 2021's transmission works perfectly. I can only assume that Toyota was able to work the kinks out with a couple years time. That's why I wanted a 21-22 5th gen. The only thing I notice compared to the 4th gen and the U660, when driving around town at part throttle, I find I have to use a bit more throttle to replicate the acceleration curve I'm used to on the 4th gen. I would describe the feeling as driving a vehicle after having put in a higher stall converter if that makes sense. I'm not light on the throttle, I like to keep it moving. Driving with purpose is what I call my driving style.

I find that the 4th gen doesn't torque steer that often whereas the 5th gen is more than happy to lol.

On the 5th gen, Toyota somehow managed to improve the engine mounting and dampening that you don't feel any vibrations though the steering wheel of the 2gr-fks one bit! On the 4th gen, you could barely and I mean barely feel any vibrations of the 2gr-fe through the steering wheel when warmed up.

The 2gr in either one sounds great at full tilt and speaks in hushed silken tones when driving normally. That's why I love the V6 hence my username. The 2gr is a smooth operator. Sad that Toyota is phasing out this wonderful motor though I know it not by choice. Efficiency and lower emissions is the name of the game so the smooth and bullet proof 2gr v6 and UR series v8's became victims.

Both are swift and energetic.

Sorry for the long winded post. I think I've covered everything. It might sound like I'm knocking the 5th gen but I'm not. I would not have purchased one in cash no less if I didn't like the car. I just can't help but notice where Toyota cut corners as compared to the 4th gen that still lives with me.

I like big v6 powered reliable sedans. Unfortunately this is a dying to dead market for that type of vehicle.

I'm not gonna lie, my first choice was to buy another low mileage 4th gen but I couldn't find one in my area. If I could have gotten a new custom made 4th gen from TMMK, I would have done that lol. People understandably just don't let them go. They are that good. Hell, I got my 5th gen from out of state! There are not that many certified Avalon's out there!

I am the owner of a 2016 Avalon Limited and absolutely love it. I am currently in the market for a set of tires and would like some recommendations. I have the 18" wheels and live on the coast so don't need snow gripping but do need wet driving conditions. I searched the Gen 4 community and not a lot of new posts. My Avalon only has 45k miles. Currently running Michelin Primacy MMX.

 

[QUOTE="jwbarksdale, post: 1494967

I picked up some Goodyear "Reliant" tires at Walmart for $65 each on a Black Friday Sale. Very impressive smooth ride and handles very well in the rain. It doesn't snow where I live so I can comment on that. Perfect tires for my 2010 Avalon with 178,000. Reliant is a Walmart exclusive house brand manufactured by Goodyear. I got all four tires for the price of one Michelin tire.