Well, I was just thinking... it's been a while since we've had a thread focused on 'cars today aren't as good as cars from the 1970s and 1980s'. Like most of those other threads that you've started- the answer is that consumer tastes have changed. No one wants to buy the cars that were popular back in the 1970s and 1980s. Those that want them apparently weren't willing to actually buy them the last few years that they were available, so they went to the automotive graveyard in the sky.

With that said- a few thoughts:

You might want to test drive one of the following if you are interested in trading in your 1995 Corolla for a comfortable full-size sedan:

2026 Toyota Crown XLE. Full-size, extremely quiet, rides on a cloud.
2025 Lexus ES350 or ES300h: Full-size, bank-vault quiet, rides on a cloud.
2025 Lexus LS500: Full-size, Bank-vault inside a bank vault quiet, extremely smooth, probably rides just as well as any of the vehicles you mentioned.

Note: When adjusted for inflation, the Crown and ES350 would likely be cheaper than the Cadillac, Lincoln, and Chrysler you mentioned- probably the Mercury and Buick too. The LS would be on the more expensive side- but would likely be cheaper than the top trims of the 1970s Lincoln Continental.

The sedan market has been shrinking for years. The full-size sedan market is almost extinct. This is all due to changing consumer preferences, which again, is largely the factor responsible for all of the changes that you have discussed in your threads in the past. Older Americans preferred large sedans. As those Americans moved from their homes to their retirement villas... and eventually to their local cemeteries, the younger generations that took their place have largely rejected sedans in favor of SUVs... which is something that's pretty much universal across most generations these days. Toyota and Honda still sell a fair amount of Camrys and Accords, but other than that, everyone seems to want SUVs. Car companies that have responded to that change in consumer demand have survived. Those that didn't respond went extinct. Just ask a former Oldsmobile or Mercury salesman.

 

A small car like your Corolla will not have a big car ride. A more apt comparison would be a Nova or Maverick. Neither had a great ride. If you want a big car ride you need to buy a big car.

 

That was the logic both my father and grandfather held. But can't a big car be made to be easy on fuel or even run totally on batteries?

I challenge the automotive industry to make a car with old-school Lincoln comfort along with Honda Civic thrift on energy.

 

Cars don't ride like 1970's land yachts because people like cars that can handle and take turns without dragging their mirrors on the ground. I was a kid in the 70's and 80's and remember riding in those big American cars. They felt floaty and unstable once speeds got above 70 MPH. I remember the first time I rode in my cousin's BMW and how stable and solid it felt, 80 mph felt like you were barely moving. To a 14 year old kid just starting to drive It was an epiphany. You could feel what the car was doing through the steering wheel, there was no play, even at high cruising speeds the car felt planted to the road. You hit a dip in the road and the BMW's suspension compresses and rebounds then immediately settles back down. However, the ride wasn't harsh and very comfortable for long drives, the perfect mix of ride and handling. In the Buick you would float up and down 2-3 times before it would settle down and 80 mph felt like 120 in the Buick. I felt more in control of the BMW at 80 mph than my Mom's Buick at 50 mph.

Today a Camry handles and rides just as good or better than that 1987 BMW. We've come a long way and for the better

 

Can't compare those 20' cars with a boat like ride to these short wheelbase cars of today. I could remember those 96 rave4's when they first came out having a lumber truck like ride. At any rate my gen3 tacoma rides so much better than my 2003 gen1 tacoma ever did.

 

I don't know the answer to your question and frankly, no one else is asking it.

 

I was hoping those with knowledge of automotive engineering would chime in here. I have no intentions of getting a different automobile anytime soon. I'm just fascinated by automobile knowledge. I'm not sure if any small SUV that gets 30 MPH plus can possibly be BUILT to rival the ride quality of a typical large, heavy automobile. It seems as automobile buyers always give up something no matter what they choose. I don't want to bother dealers test driving things unless I'm actually out on the market to buy something.

Right now, the Toyota Corolla Cross interests me as a possible future set of wheels for me but I won't ever expect a magic carpet ride comparable with a big 1970's Chevrolet, Buick, Oldsmobile, Chrysler, Mercury or Ford. I suspect the comfort level would still be above that of my current '95 Corolla sedan.

I dream of the perfect automobile or wagon. Does the human species today have the technological know-how to build what I envision?

1. Toyota reliability and longevity
2. Volvo safety
3. 1970's Lincoln Continental magic carpet ride
4. Honda Civic thriftiness on fuel, or an EV that runs on solid state batteries as Toyota is now pioneering
5. BMW handling
6. mommy van roominess
7. won't roll over easily

 

I was hoping those with knowledge of automotive engineering would chime in here. I have no intentions of getting a different automobile anytime soon. I'm just fascinated by automobile knowledge. I'm not sure if any small SUV that gets 30 MPH plus can possibly be BUILT to rival the ride quality of a typical large, heavy automobile. It seems as automobile buyers always give up something no matter what they choose. I don't want to bother dealers test driving things unless I'm actually out on the market to buy something.

Right now, the Toyota Corolla Cross interests me as a possible future set of wheels for me but I won't ever expect a magic carpet ride comparable with a big 1970's Chevrolet, Buick, Oldsmobile, Chrysler, Mercury or Ford. I suspect the comfort level would still be above that of my current '95 Corolla sedan.

I dream of the perfect automobile or wagon. Does the human species today have the technological know-how to build what I envision?

1. Toyota reliability and longevity
2. Volvo safety
3. 1970's Lincoln Continental magic carpet ride
4. Honda Civic thriftiness on fuel, or an EV that runs on solid state batteries as Toyota is now pioneering
5. BMW handling
6. mommy van roominess
7. won't roll over easily

COMPARING LARGER WHEELBASE HEAVIER CARS TO SMALLER LIGHTER SHORT WHEELBASE ONES IS LIKE COMPARING APPLES TO ORANGES, SO WHAT PART OF THAT ARE YOU HAVING TROUBLE TO COMPREHEND ?

 

 

I have no intentions of getting a different automobile anytime soon.

Car companies, to be blunt, don't care about what people care about if they don't intend to buy a car. Why should they design cars for people who don't buy them?

I'm just fascinated by automobile knowledge. I'm not sure if any small SUV that gets 30 MPH plus can possibly be BUILT to rival the ride quality of a typical large, heavy automobile.

There are plenty of vehicles that ride nicely. It will be hard to find a car that has the ride and handling of a 70s land yacht, but there are probably plenty of vehices that ride nicely in the small SUV class. A Rav4 LE with its relatively small (for today's world) wheels would likely ride fine. Not Cadillac from the 1970s nice, but certainly nice enough for daily driving.

It seems as automobile buyers always give up something no matter what they choose. I don't want to bother dealers test driving things unless I'm actually out on the market to buy something.

Yes. Every car on the market comes with pros and cons. I don't think that there is a car that does everything (handle like a BMW while riding as well as a 70s Cadillac, for example). Consumers, however, have lots of choices and it's all a matter of priorities.

Right now, the Toyota Corolla Cross interests me as a possible future set of wheels for me but I won't ever expect a magic carpet ride comparable with a big 1970's Chevrolet, Buick, Oldsmobile, Chrysler, Mercury or Ford. I suspect the comfort level would still be above that of my current '95 Corolla sedan.

A Corolla Cross, of course wouldn't have the ride comfort of a large sedan. That's because it's a subcompact economy CUV. When adjusted for inflation, it costs a fraction of what the Lincoln, Cadillac, and Chrysler (that you mentioned in your original post) did. You are comparing apples and oranges.

I dream of the perfect automobile or wagon. Does the human species today have the technological know-how to build what I envision?

There are multiple problems with this. First, your concept of an "ideal" vehicle is so far outside of what the vast majority of consumers today want, so why would a car company spend a fortune to develop it given that it's not going to sell. Second, you've already mentioned that you have no intention of buying a car, so as I mentioned earlier, car companies couldn't care less about what the non car-buying pubic wants.

1. Toyota reliability and longevity
2. Volvo safety
3. 1970's Lincoln Continental magic carpet ride
4. Honda Civic thriftiness on fuel, or an EV that runs on solid state batteries as Toyota is now pioneering
5. BMW handling
6. mommy van roominess
7. won't roll over easily

As I mentioned in your other thread, a modern Toyota Crown Signia satisfies most of what's on your list, and would likely be closest to what you envision as a perfect car. It's got #1, #2, #3, #4, and #7 down pat. It's pretty roomy in the cabin and cargo area, so it's probably close to your ideal version of #6. Your #5- BMW handling, isn't really all that compatible with some of the other items on the list. A car that rides like a 70s Caddy isn't going to handle like a BMW. Unless you are going to pay big bucks for a luxury car that has a fancy and effective adaptive suspension (which would sacrifice #1 on your list, because those systems are not reliable long-term and cost a fortune to repair), you're out of luck.


But going back to the main point here- you have no interest in buying a car, so automotive companies don't care what you think. That might sound harsh, but as long as you continue driving your 1995 Corolla and aren't interested in upgrading, they simply don't care. They care about the millions of Americans that want a SUV.... so that's what they build and sell... and they are making tons of money doing it.

 

Car companies, to be blunt, don't care about what people care about if they don't intend to buy a car. Why should they design cars for people who don't buy them?

Unless JLB has a business case, this will get laughed out of a meeting

There are plenty of vehicles that ride nicely. It will be hard to find a car that has the ride and handling of a 70s land yacht, but there are probably plenty of vehices that ride nicely in the small SUV class. A Rav4 LE with its relatively small (for today's world) wheels would likely ride fine. Not Cadillac from the 1970s nice, but certainly nice enough for daily driving.

Yes. Every car on the market comes with pros and cons. I don't think that there is a car that does everything (handle like a BMW while riding as well as a 70s Cadillac, for example). Consumers, however, have lots of choices and it's all a matter of priorities.

A Corolla Cross, of course wouldn't have the ride comfort of a large sedan. That's because it's a subcompact economy CUV. When adjusted for inflation, it costs a fraction of what the Lincoln, Cadillac, and Chrysler (that you mentioned in your original post) did. You are comparing apples and oranges.

There are multiple problems with this. First, your concept of an "ideal" vehicle is so far outside of what the vast majority of consumers today want, so why would a car company spend a fortune to develop it given that it's not going to sell. Second, you've already mentioned that you have no intention of buying a car, so as I mentioned earlier, car companies couldn't care less about what the non car-buying pubic wants.

As I mentioned in your other thread, a modern Toyota Crown Signia satisfies most of what's on your list, and would likely be closest to what you envision as a perfect car. It's got #1, #2, #3, #4, and #7 down pat. It's pretty roomy in the cabin and cargo area, so it's probably close to your ideal version of #6. Your #5- BMW handling, isn't really all that compatible with some of the other items on the list. A car that rides like a 70s Caddy isn't going to handle like a BMW. Unless you are going to pay big bucks for a luxury car that has a fancy and effective adaptive suspension (which would sacrifice #1 on your list, because those systems are not reliable long-term and cost a fortune to repair), you're out of luck.

But going back to the main point here- you have no interest in buying a car, so automotive companies don't care what you think. That might sound harsh, but as long as you continue driving your 1995 Corolla and aren't interested in upgrading, they simply don't care. They care about the millions of Americans that want a SUV.... so that's what they build and sell... and they are making tons of money doing it.

 

When you purchase a toyota, idk about other manufactures, but it isn't long before I'd get their survey in the mail. They have a long survey asking just about everything that made you purchase that vehicle. Well, being what I consider an experienced driver, it seemed every time I sent those surveys back in, they've never listened to me. Last one I complained of all the nanny, and other electronic bs in my 2019 gen3, tacoma. I thought was over the top. I asked them to just build a basic tacoma like those gen1's, intended for us older folks that don't need all that stuff. What did we get currently in the gen4 tacoma? More of the same with higher prices. I'm getting the idea car companies don't pay much attention to their customers, instead pay more attention to what their competitors are doing.

 

It's a shame we have to spend money on something just to have the privilege to tell carmakers what we hate and what we would like.

Here are my automobile priorities:

0. nice polite folks at the dealership that sells them new
1. it has to fit my own budget to own and drive
2. mechanically trouble-free and long lasting
3. it has to have the room and capacity to haul whatever I need to haul
4. it can't be inherently dangerous
5. offers good crash protection
6. jolt-free comfort over even crappy roads; magic carpet ride
6.50 quiet with no squeaks, squeals, dashboard plastic vibrating buzz or rattles
6.75 no shaking at idle or shaking in the steering wheel; no Harley-Davidson-like shaking or mirror rattle
7. good looks and style
8. a name that I like (I don't like how TESLA, SUBARU, HYUNDAI, YUGO, LEXUS and KIA sound)
9. slot-car handling

Toyota covers most of my priorities except it might never be as soft on my bones over Iowa potholes as a big 1979 Chevrolet (when it was new) and a new Corolla Cross won't be as roomy as one in the driver seat. I drive conservatively and don't need slot-car handling. By the same token, I don't want a car pulling hard left or right either.

 

It's a shame we have to spend money on something just to have the privilege to tell carmakers what we hate and what we would like.

Here are my automobile priorities:

0. nice polite folks at the dealership that sells them new
1. it has to fit my own budget to own and drive
2. mechanically trouble-free and long lasting
3. it has to have the room and capacity to haul whatever I need to haul
4. it can't be inherently dangerous
5. offers good crash protection
6. jolt-free comfort over even crappy roads; magic carpet ride
6.50 quiet with no squeaks, squeals, dashboard plastic vibrating buzz or rattles
6.75 no shaking at idle or shaking in the steering wheel; no Harley-Davidson-like shaking or mirror rattle
7. good looks and style
8. a name that I like (I don't like how TESLA, SUBARU, HYUNDAI, YUGO, LEXUS and KIA sound)
9. slot-car handling

Toyota covers most of my priorities except it might never be as soft on my bones over Iowa potholes as a big 1979 Chevrolet (when it was new) and a new Corolla Cross won't be as roomy as one in the driver seat. I drive conservatively and don't need slot-car handling. By the same token, I don't want a car pulling hard left or right either.

So- what is your theoretical "budget"?

As mentioned above, a Crown Signia would satisfy almost all of your priorities. The only thing that is reasonably priced that will have slot-car handing would be a subcompact Japanese car from the 90s. The newer ones don't drive like that anymore- as they have more weight in the steering. A base model Highlander is also probably a good candidate. With it's 18" wheels and 235/65/18 tires- you have a huge amount of tire sidewall and the ride is pretty cushy. Tons of room in the back, its two engine offerings seem to be pretty reliable, it isn't dangerous and offers great crash test ratings, is relatively quiet- although you'll need to go to a higher trim level if you want acoustic side windows.

A subcompact or even a compact SUV isn't likely going to satisfy your requirements- although a Rav4 LE might ride nicely with the smaller wheels.

But... going back to your earlier statement:

I have no intentions of getting a different automobile anytime soon.

Toyota, nor any other company, gives a hoot about what you care about- because you aren't going to be buying a new car anytime in the near future.

It might be better to trade your Corolla in for a late 90s or early 2000s Buick LeSabre. It was one of the last land yachts made, it's 3.8L V6 and four-speed transmission were actually quite reliable (for a GM product of that era), tons of room inside, the thing just floats over the road, and it gets decent mileage for being a large car- around 20/27mpg. Being a 90s car (or early 2000s), the safety isn't going to be as good as something new, but the things were large enough that they would be plenty safe for around town. Best part- they are dirt cheap on the used market. Here's one with just 131,000 miles for $2000.

If you got a bit more in your budget, you could get a newer LaCrosse- which was produced up until the 2019 model year. I don't think the LaCrosse's powertrain would be nearly as reliable as the old 3.8L pushrods in the LeSabre. Those things last forever.

 

It might be better to trade your Corolla in for a late 90s or early 2000s Buick LeSabre.

He could get a used 2011 Lincoln Town Car, Mercury Grand Marquis or Ford Crown Victoria, that was the last year Ford made the body on frame, RWD Panther platform cars.

 

I am trying to get an improved special pension income from the VA which might boost my annual income to an extra $10-$12K a year. Then I will start saving up for a new automobile to pay cash for it. The first new car I want to test drive when the time comes is a Toyota Corolla Cross. I want to keep the new automobile under $30K OTD if I can. I vowed a long time ago never to own a Big Three product again. Whether it rides like a big Lincoln or not, it has to be Toyota. I have a black German Shepherd, so a wagon makes the most sense for me. For now, my still-reliable '95 Corolla will do. I have a headrest fan to keep my dog cool in the back seat and a protective seat cover back there as well. The fans plug into the cigarette lighter socket and move some of that that a/c air from front to back for my pooch. A Cross will have back seat a/c vents. I might splurge for an all-wheel-drive Cross when the time comes.

Quite frankly, I don't think anything in the price range of a new Cross will actually beat it for ride comfort level. It has the utility of a wagon, optional all-wheel drive for wintering Iowa, Toyota reliability and very good crashworthiness. It can get 30+ highway to boot. Before I die of old age, I would like that NEW CAR SMELL once again! Ah, that smell of hot fresh paint under the hood! I'm 61 and don't smoke. I have some years left.

Here is my boy Gustav at 14 weeks and about 35 pounds.

 

I am trying to get an improved special pension income from the VA which might boost my annual income to an extra $10-$12K a year. Then I will start saving up for a new automobile to pay cash for it. The first new car I want to test drive when the time comes is a Toyota Corolla Cross. I want to keep the new automobile under $30K OTD if I can. I vowed a long time ago never to own a Big Three product again. Whether it rides like a big Lincoln or not, it has to be Toyota. I have a black German Shepherd, so a wagon makes the most sense for me. For now, my still-reliable '95 Corolla will do. I have a headrest fan to keep my dog cool in the back seat and a protective seat cover back there as well. The fans plug into the cigarette lighter socket and move some of that that a/c air from front to back for my pooch. A Cross will have back seat a/c vents. I might splurge for an all-wheel-drive Cross when the time comes.

Here is my boy Gustav at 14 weeks and about 35 pounds.

View attachment 493906

At $30k, your best options are:

• a 2-3 years old RAV4 Hybrid. Spacious, reasonably safe. It won't handle like a BMW or ride like a Lincoln but it's reasonably comfortable. If you get a certified pre-owned it will come with decent warranty.
• a somewhat older Highlander Hybrid. Still easy on gas, and significantly more comfortable than RAV4.
• in 3-4 years, used Crown Signias will probably approach the $30k range.

 

Simply put, you will not find a brand new Toyota in 2025 for under $30,000 that meets all of your requirements. You'll be lucky to satisfy a few. Realistically, the only Toyotas these days that are under $30,000 new are the Corolla or Corolla Cross. With destination, everything else gets pushed above the $30,000 mark.

If you insist on a 'wagon', the Corolla Cross and Corolla Hatchback are your only options- and both ride decently for what they are- but they are no where near the old-school Cadillacs or Lincolns you remember from fifty years ago. They don't offer fun handling, and their interior space reflects their compact/subcompact size.

Sorry, but that's the reality of the under $30,000 price point these days- and with the factors in play these days that are going to increase costs of both cars and parts, your options that you'll have in a year or two might end up being over the $30,000 price point unless you are able to find a true base model- which is hard these days.

Sorry to say, but your list of demands is just not realistic when reflecting on your theoretical budget. The Corolla Cross will offer you basic, no-frills transportation with a fair amount of cargo room, acceptable ride quality, and lackluster handling if you aiming for a BMW.

It might be time for a moderator to lock this thread down, as your question has been answered multiple times.

 

Simply put, you will not find a brand new Toyota in 2025 for under $30,000 that meets all of your requirements. You'll be lucky to satisfy a few. Realistically, the only Toyotas these days that are under $30,000 new are the Corolla or Corolla Cross. With destination, everything else gets pushed above the $30,000 mark.

If you insist on a 'wagon', the Corolla Cross and Corolla Hatchback are your only options- and both ride decently for what they are- but they are no where near the old-school Cadillacs or Lincolns you remember from fifty years ago. They don't offer fun handling, and their interior space reflects their compact/subcompact size.

Sorry, but that's the reality of the under $30,000 price point these days- and with the factors in play these days that are going to increase costs of both cars and parts, your options that you'll have in a year or two might end up being over the $30,000 price point unless you are able to find a true base model- which is hard these days.

Sorry to say, but your list of demands is just not realistic when reflecting on your theoretical budget. The Corolla Cross will offer you basic, no-frills transportation with a fair amount of cargo room, acceptable ride quality, and lackluster handling if you aiming for a BMW.

It might be time for a moderator to lock this thread down, as your question has been answered multiple times.

I have no desire for a BMW. The new Cross satisfies most of my new car requirements anyway for something I might be able to afford within a few years' time. My thread was mainly about what might be POSSIBLE anyway from a scientific and engineering standpoint. It wasn't supposed to be about what I could personally afford anyway but about what automobile manufacturers could possibly make.

I'm sure there is no PERFECT car in the world that exists for any one person here. Your desires and my desires might not be the same. I do know that most older people in America prefer a car that is easier to get in and out of and doesn't jolt their tender bones while hitting bumps. Being environmental or thrifty on gasoline has always been a low priority for most of those people. Old people have often driven gas-guzzlers for the longest time.

My hopes for the future are that there will be NEW automobiles that are eco-friendly, roomy, gentle in ride quality while still being affordable to buy and operate for many. Will there someday be cars that offer a level of comfort on par with old school full-size American automobiles but are sensible and affordable still? Your guess is as good as mine. For now, it seems that the cheapest new car on the market means being crammed into something dinky that rides like a wheelbarrow.

To me, the new Corolla line is at the threshold of what is relatively cheap but still decent overall. Hell, the base Cross even has cruise control!

 

I have no desire for a BMW.

Um... it's #5 on your list of what you "envision":

Does the human species today have the technological know-how to build what I envision?

1. Toyota reliability and longevity
2. Volvo safety
3. 1970's Lincoln Continental magic carpet ride
4. Honda Civic thriftiness on fuel, or an EV that runs on solid state batteries as Toyota is now pioneering
5. BMW handling
6. mommy van roominess
7. won't roll over easily

The new Cross satisfies most of my new car requirements anyway for something I might be able to afford within a few years' time. My thread was mainly about what might be POSSIBLE anyway from a scientific and engineering standpoint. It wasn't supposed to be about what I could personally afford anyway but about what automobile manufacturers could possibly make.

In short: No, not for the price point that you are looking for. For under $30,000 these days, if you want a new vehicle from Toyota, you're going to get an ecobox. The good news is that even ecoboxes today come with impressive safety and convenience features. If you spend a bit more, you could get into a more comfortable Camry or Rav4, but not for under the $30,000 mark.

You can't have everything.

It seems like the car that is truly what you want is (again) a Crown Signia- which is $14,000 more than your stated budget. Wait a few years and you could likely find one in pretty good condition with low miles for about $30,000. Most people that seem to be buying them are older and don't drive a lot- and odds are you'll be able to find one that was driven by someone retirement age that likely took good care of it to the point where it's probably still pretty shiny.[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

Um... it's #5 on your list of what you "envision":





In short: No, not for the price point that you are looking for. For under $30,000 these days, if you want a new vehicle from Toyota, you're going to get an ecobox. The good news is that even ecoboxes today come with impressive safety and convenience features. If you spend a bit more, you could get into a more comfortable Camry or Rav4, but not for under the $30,000 mark.

You can't have everything.

It seems like the car that is truly what you want is (again) a Crown Signia- which is $14,000 more than your stated budget. Wait a few years and you could likely find one in pretty good condition with low miles for about $30,000. Most people that seem to be buying them are older and don't drive a lot- and odds are you'll be able to find one that was driven by someone retirement age that likely took good care of it to the point where it's probably still pretty shiny.

[/QUOTE]


No, I don't want to pay $30K for any USED car. I don't want a gas-guzzler either. If I can't have everything, I will have to settle for most of everything. What I really want is billions of dollars so I can found my own car company to build exactly what I want. Until then, I will trust Toyota.

I have plenty of good ideas, but the status quo doesn't seem to operate on my frequency. Man rode horses for 1,000's of years before some humble Michigan farm boy came up with a better idea. His name was Henry Ford. The trouble with me is that I'm just too practical.

 

Hate to say it, but even toyota isn't the company it once was. They've gotten more like all the domestics. Still, they are probably one of the less evils to choose from.

 

They still seem to have nicer people working at their dealerships than Big Three. A lot nicer. I've met some real arse-wipes at Big Three stores. I would say "Yota" is much less "evil" than Chevrolet and all the rest.

American-brand car drivers are apologists. This term APOLOGIST has been used of "Harley-Davidson" by AMF riders of the 1970's. They know the shit they drive is over-priced crap and Big Three companies and dealers are assholes. They think it is their "patriotic duty" to buy 'American' when most of this Big Three slop is made in Canada or Mexico. My '95 Corolla was made in Fremont, California. Many Yota trucks hail from Texas or Georgia.

 

PS - I have had a fantasy American car company in mind that would build American automobiles "Volvo safe, "Toyota reliable", "Rolls-Royce solid", 'mouse quiet" and "German engineering superior". Products would be strictly built on American soil by American minds and hands. They would in theory be in the price range of the new automobiles, vans, light-duty trucks and SUV's that most American working-class people TYPICALLY buy and be as eco-friendly as technologically possible and ride as close to a "magic carpet" as technologically possible. Dashboards, and vehicle lines, inside and out, would be simple and easy on the eyes. Infotainment SCREENS WOULD BE FLUSH IN THE DASH AND NEVER PROTRUDE. The factory outlets, not dealerships, would have "Toyota nice" people working there to boot. Customers would always get service with a smile.

To me, how customers are treated is just as important as the quality of the products they buy.

 

All those cars are huge and heavy with huge soft springs. OMG gas guzzlers too.

 

My son recently borrowed my 2013 Avalon Limited. It is notoriously nicked for its "stiff" suspension. I replaced the factory 18" rims with Camry 16" hoops, spooned on a set of Michelin Cross Climates and viola in my sons words . . . "dad, that Avalon is rocking 1995 Caprice vibes with those supersized sidewall tires!" Never thought of it that way, but except for the FWD dynamic (the Caprice was RWD) he is exactly right!

 

Very simply, great handling has a feel of the road, feel the ride, where the 70's big car float like a boat comfort had very poor handling. I have always preferred driving a good handling car and hated that soft floating feel. I prefer to feel more in control when I drive.

 

You should feel the potholes in the streets of Des Moines!

In 1990, I bought a new Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais 2.5L 2-dr. coupe. Front drive. Column-mounted AT, PS, PB, AC, and AM/FM cassette. Metallic silver with gray cloth interior. Small car, good on gas, about 30 MPH highway, fairly roomy inside and pretty soft on ride quality. Handled well on mountain roads and California coastal roads too. A bit squirrely on the icy roads of Oklahoma. Had to drive it very conservatively during harsh winters. About $10,500 OTD. I was age 25 in the army then at Fort Sill, OK.

 

The longer the wheel base the smoother the ride.

I for one would not trade a modern car for those crappy domestic cars I had from the 60s 70s and 80s. They never started in the winter, oil change every 2k miles, new spark plugs every year, change the anti freeze every second year, new exhaust system every 3 years etc etc. Now I change the oil once a year and that's about it and it starts no matter how cold it is outside.

 

It's easy for me to say that.I h.ave a 2011 Avalon, with a 120000 miles.Seems to me you need a used Avalon. Find one with the lowest miles you can find maybe a 2012 and Mine does great gas mileage and I do a lot of highway Driving.Have you driven one?You'll find one at a good price.Plenty of power and with
the 2GrFe engine. Drive one,you will believe.

 

PS - And if I were FINANCING, I would use my own credit union for that purpose.

 

But what if Toyota Financial offered a lower APR? You pick and choose your battle based on the numbers

 

The smoothest riding vehicle I've ever been in was my Mom's 2002 Toyota Avalon. Even driving over railroad tracks you could barely feel anything. I borrowed her every time I went home to visit in Maine. (Rust, finally, killed her but not after the family put almost 300,000 mile son her.)
For a Toyota, my WORST driving car was a 2012 Scion iQ I bought as a commuter car. Sure, that 1.3L 4-banger got great mileage (40 mpg) but the short wheelbase and her being so light made for a miserable ride. (And cheap seats, Scion was truly a Toyota "budget" make!) I went through rear shocks quite often....would find seal broken with leaks on those all the time. (Glad they were cheap)
Let's see if I can find a photo of the car my family nicknamed the Pumpkin....

 

Even if the ride wasn't smooth, this little quirky car has a lot of personality. I can see how the light weight and short wheelbase would make it a bumpy ride compared to the smooth Avalon. It has a reputation for a comfortable and smooth ride. It's interesting how much ride quality can vary even within the same brand. The Scion iQ is rough on comfort yet great on gas, as it sounds like a tough trade-off.

 

First of all, SUV's have a higher center of gravity, so need stiffer springing to avoid excessive leaning/rolling tendencies.

Those big cars like Town Cars and Grand Marquis' had a long wheelbase and wide stance for their height, so didn't need such stiff springs to control pitch and roll. They also had tall-profile tires that needed less-stiff belts to control their flat tread-surface shape as they were inflated.

Modern cars are expected to meet standards for stability in emergency maneuvers, so cars that don't handle very well might have to be insured at a much higher annual expense. This is even further important as highway speeds keep getting higher.

I've driven a 1988 Isuzu long-bed Pickup for decades, and a 97 Town Car, plus my recent 2015 Camry and 2010 Corolla purchases.

The Truck and Town Car have to take exit ramps very slowly compared to the newer Toyota sedans!

The Corolla felt pretty tinny, the Camry seems much quieter and more solid. Both handle really well under sudden cornering inputs and stay on the intended path. The truck and the Town Car are sluggish to respond and can't really sustain a sudden direction change at speed.

For the additional expense of sophisticated suspension and fancy wheels and tires, bigger cars can be made to offer luxury and performance. Such cars like the Lexus and BMW sedans and SUV's do get closer to offering the best of all worlds. Such pricey cars also tend to be more expensive to register and to maintain.
Hint, hint, used Lexus vehicles are priced accordingly higher because of their better reliability and lower operating cost.

 

If big, heavy automobiles like Lincolns, Mercurys and Buicks (and had ranges comparable with gasoline powered cars) of old could practically be made to run on 100% renewable energy as the solid-state rechargeable batteries Toyota is working on, that would be super. My big concerns are the environment, the numbered days of fossil fuels on earth, fuel costs and pollution.

The old-fashioned station wagons built on automobile chasses had low centers of gravity and wider stances. They, full size, midsize or compact, could be both highway stable and ride soft. A wagon is a great set of wheels for a German Shepherd owner as me.

 

The less I have to pay for a car to own it and drive it, the better for me. I don't have oil stocks. A boring car therefore might make for excitement in the end when one sees how much money they have saved for fun things like a deer hunting trip, a fly-fishing trip in the rivers of Montana, a new shotgun for doves or a nice dog to play Frisbee with. I prefer sensibility in an automobile, light-duty truck or wagon.