Before you decide on hybrid vs conventional vehicle please, describe your intended use of it and daily commute parameters.
Hybrids are not for everyone.
Either way, I'd not be buying anything that does not have factory warranty leftover. If money is a concern, rather sacrifice mpg and buy conventional.

 

Hi there--good question.

This car will be primarily used for short trips around town (often less than 10 miles), with the occasional 2-4 hour road trip. The terrain has mild hills.

We live in an area with frequent snow as well.

 

DO NOT BUY A HYBRID.
You will have no benefit for paying premium.
I really don't even want to get into specifics of how and why. You can simply take my word for it but, every time we have owner complaining here on crappy mpg, they admit short trips.
So don't. Not an option for you.
I don't even have a good suggestion for you as SUV alternative. Hybrids are considered for mpg purpose. If that's the primary consideration, SUVs simply do not have good mpg.
Just buy regular Highlander. Fine cars.

 

Forgot to mention--if there are other threads you could direct me to that might explain some of the rationale here, I'd be happy to read them! Did a bit of searching but didn't find much.

 

Interesting.

I don't really understand -- it seems like short trips/town-driving is where hybrids shine. I don't want to take up too much time, but if you could give me a few details....I'll do more research.

Hmmm.

Do you think there is any validity to the claim that the AWD function is better on the hybrids?

 

The electric motor won't power the vehicle until the engine warms up. Which will take a few miles. By that time, you're nearing half your commute. So that first half... you really arent getting good mileage. Its better for longer commutes and city driving is better than highway for a hybrid

If you really must have space, consider the non hybrid highlander.

 

Simply go through threads here page by page and read through any one that refers to poor gas mileage. It's same pattern - short trips.
Rationale is very simple: hybrid synergy drive takes anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes, depending on outside temperature to warm up. Also, catalytic converter has to be warmed up, as part of EVAP system considerations.
That causes ICE - internal combustion engine - to run practically continuously for warm up.
Hence, for that period, you are driving a regular Highlander. How much of your commute you cover in that time? Most or all?
Especially, if you were in city type driving. Every stop and go will make ICE to turn on. yes, I do KNOW what they say. But, from real life experiences, city mpg is actually worse than regular driving.
Hybrids of this type shine in two areas:
- rolling in HWY traffic with roll/acceleration pattern, low speeds
- cruising on some back roads at speeds below 42 mph for your year. ICE turns on after 42 mph on 08, after 45 on newer models.
So what's the point? Considering - 08 it is - a higher chance of traction battery to near its useful time (anywhere between $2000 to $4500 replacement) - is it worth buying a hybrid?
I mean - I owned two, own one, and will buy another one in heartbeat. great cars. But not for what you intend it for. I'd rather go electric for short commutes. Chevy Bolt. My commutes are 1.2 hr one way, 75% FWY, lots of long rolling roads. So I do 31+mpg average and did around 40 on my then Camry Hybrid. But it's different.

 

Thank you--immensely useful and specific advice. Perhaps this isn't the right application for a hybrid. I was not aware of the warm-up period--that is signficant.

I suppose the only argument left standing is the idea that the AWD system is superior. Care to comment?

 

Definitely not. We had reports about having hard time going up steep hills, gravel roads even pulling a boat out on ramp.
Not saying it's typical but we had those reports.
There is one thing you likely do not know. Rear wheel drive is ONLY electrical. This vehicle does not have mechanical transfer case or driveshaft. So by no means it can be even remotely compared to anything like AWD on regular Highlander, where you have driveshaft, transfer case and mechanical rear differential.
Those cars are rather odd going uphill in reverse too.
Again, by no means shall I qualify AWD as superior to anything. Want that - buy a Subaru.

 

I completely disagree with the MOD. I have a 2012 HiHy that I use for the exact scenario the OP described. My twice daily local road commute is ~14 miles and I average 30mpg in that time. My weekend trips are 2+ hours and get about 25mpg there. I live in MA and found the AWD to be great even in 6" of snow. I would definitely recommend this car in my situation and yours!

 

Glad to hear that. I'm actually leaning back towards the hybrid. Found one with 60k miles....very tempting.

 

my wife makes driving the grandchildren to school/soccer/dance class - only a couple of miles at most - we're still getting in the high 20's. If I include some longer trips in the 10 mile range we can get well over 30.

hence, you actually proved my observation. Short trips - worse mpg, longer trips - better mpg.
Thank you.

This is destined to go into same old discussion we had before, when I had screen shots of HWY/cruising at 40/city mpg posted, as objective proof that in the city mpg drastically drops down.
That said, there so MANY variables that influence a particular vehicle mpg, with driving style, ambient weather conditions, terrain, tires likely being the primary ones, that it is very unfair to glance at someone's commute and say - this it this or this is that.
Short trips are known low mpg factor. Due to simple principles of how hybrid system operates. One can't avoid warm up periods.

 

You realize that whenever I'm city driving, I'm doing so in ECO mode? It's impossible to get the numbers you're offering with ECO mode activated. Do you even know this exists? It seems like you may not...

In the end, you can't argue with the truth. Reasonable city driving in ECO will provide higher MPG over highway driving. That's why I bought a hybrid initially. If you can't grasp that, that's your damage.

 

ECO button is in the center console next to EV one. I actually used it for a year and stopped as it does not do any improvement in mpg anyway.
ECO part in your commute stops with every red light and stop sign when you have to take off and ICE kicks in. Also, low driving speed to distance traveled ratio does not improve mpg. 20s? I do 30 in Seattle suburb.
But that's not what I want to point out.
I want to point out use of offensive language insinuating low mental capacities in another poster. Mod or not. As moderator, I shall be militant about not allowing disrespectful to others posts in my forums.
Please be civil, respectful and be warned.

 

The quote. "Hybrids are not worth the money - cant recoup the cost " would only apply to new vehicle purchases , not used .

 

And not if you were paid for business mileage. My TCH paid for itself in 3 years and thereafter was pure profit just in that. Less maintenance costs, of course yet.

 

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I’m not really sure which years to avoid. I’ve had three highlander hybrids and none of them needed anything more than routine maintenance. But this conversation has moved more towards gas mileage issues. So I thought I would post this from the other day.


It is much higher then my normal mileage, but it is pretty damn good over a 26 minute drive.

 

Hybrid batteries have a limited life. Prius owners claim that the batteries last longer than warrantied.

I don't care for hybrids because I don't live in a city. In a city with crawly commutes a hybrid might make sense. Out in the country I don't see the advantages of hybrids.

 

Hybrid batteries have a limited life. Prius owners claim that the batteries last longer than warrantied.

I don't care for hybrids because I don't live in a city. In a city with crawly commutes a hybrid might make sense. Out in the country I don't see the advantages of hybrids.

The above part about the battery and lifespan is what I was going to comment as well. We bought a new 2014 HyHi 3 years ago. Wife loves it. She wanted the Hybrid. It will take years to make that $8000 difference (roughly, as, at the time, we had to get the top trim instead of the trim we would have been fine with without the hybrid battery) but we do keep our vehicles for a long time. 7 years has been shortest. Have also had a 1998 Honda Accord that is now with my niece and a 2001 4Runner that my son will get next year when he is 16. All of them have been purchased new and under 25 miles when delivered.
So, we may actually come out ahead on the HyHi. Even if we don't, it is something she wanted.


That said, if I were buying a used one, I would worry about the battery having issues after x years and being a big expense. I don't know their normal lifespan, I have heard ~5-8 years, but that is something to think about. Hopefully, someone here may know real numbers about the lifespan; other than to just say "don't do it.".


As for mpg.....wife's commute is ~10-15 miles each way, per day. We have taken it on trips, as it is better mpg than the 4Runner, and more comfortable. She gets better mileage than I do, with her style of driving. She is consistently ~28+. I am more consistently around 25 when I drive it. I also get places quicker.....

Not sure about the older ones you are looking at, just giving examples for our 2014, but again, biggest thing I would think of would be the battery lifespan that is left and any cost of replacement....

 

Not going to get into any minutiae specs. We purchased a 2009 HiHy...figured we would due our small part (albeit very small) for the environment while saving a little bit of gas money over the years (we tend to hold on to our vehicles for awhile). We can honestly say we have averaged 25 MPG over the years. (I believe some folks just tend to inflate their numbers--for whatever reason). So, not an explosive savings amount...but like i said...over the years it can add up. I estimate we save approx 250-300$$ a year, based on filling up every 2-2.5 weeks. Do the math...looking at 2.5K to 3K savings over 10 years...almost bridging the gap for paying for the HiHy in the first place.

As far as reliability...what can we say/i do most of the mx on my vehicle and the only thing i have had to have the dealer fix for me was the Driver side window regulator. Oh, i had to replace the vehicle battery (not the Hybrid drive batts). Everything else has been flawless...car is mainly used as daily driver for the wifey. We love the car, lots of room for kids and groceries and trips. BL: Not sure what specific reason you are getting a hybrid...if it makes you feel good/and your have abit of extra cash--then do it. If you are planning to keep for awhile, you will recoup much of the extra $$ (particularly if gas prices start to creep back up). Hope this helps. ETR

Pave53

 

I can't speak to the Highlander, but apparently the first few years of the Camry hybrid were a disaster. From other posters, there were water pump, steering, brake or acceleration issues and much more. I'm not sure which year the interior rattles and vibrations disappeared, as my 2011 has plenty.
The hybrid is a "commuter car." If you work in a place like Los Angeles or New York, a hybrid will shine. I've driven my wife's Prius C to work a few times and gotten over 65 mpg every trip. On a couple of Fridays, leaving L.A. for the suburbs, I got 75 mpg. I hit 40 mpg in my TCH almost every trip. In almost every case, a new hybrid costs a healthy premium over the same gas car. At $3/gallon, that's close to 7 years for a 2007 Prius or TCH vs an Accord LX or Camry LE. BTW, my 2006 Accord has 244,000 miles on it. A year and a half ago, I found a used TCH for a healthy discount.

 

In almost every case, a new hybrid costs a healthy premium over the same gas car. At $3/gallon, that's close to 7 years for a 2007 Prius or TCH vs an Accord LX or Camry LE. .

I dont know anything about prius or camry hybrids, but the cost is coming way down for a highlander gas vs hybrid. The 2017 limited platinum hybrid was only $1500 more than the non hybrid. it used to be 5000 to 7000 more.

 

I bought my 2008 new. My only problem has been the DC battery losing it's charge.

 

Original owner of a 2013 HH Limited with 125k+ flawless miles. Would I buy another HH: absolutely! But my next vehicle will be a Lexus LX570. I always buy Toyotas new and run them into the ground. Sold a 2012 Sequoia Limited for the HH and still own a 1997 4Runner Limited with over 300K miles. One thing that I'm getting tired of is sitting and waiting for my Toyota to be serviced. As I get older my patience is running thinner. So I'm looking forward to Lexus' service and getting a loaner each and every time my vehicle will be serviced.

 

I didn't know the Toyota Nation forum even existed when I was shopping. I've heard several people say to avoid the first year or two of a new model, as there are bugs to be worked out. After finding the forum, I learned of melting dash issues on 2007-2009 Camrys, that 1980s-2005 never had. I also learned of hybrid system water pumps failing before 60k miles (07-09TCH). The more research I did, I learned of Toyota adopting something called "six sigma," which is a corporate way to penny pinch.

Anyhow, research has led me to the fact that computers control almost everything. Every Toyota accused of sudden acceleration was a "drive by wire." You can't use a rag and a can of spray and clean your throttle body like you did on a previous car, because the IAC's twin controls the butterfly. If you have push button start on a hybrid, it is up to the computer whether the car goes into ready mode. I have replaced the 12v battery, and mine still sometimes ignores the seatbelt buckled and brake pedal pressed, and doesn't start until the second or third button push.

The TN forum is full of people's complaints of their time not being valued by their local Toyota dealer. When a person with a 2007 gas Camry with 62,000 miles has to haggle with the dealer service department because they insist 1.5 qts oil loss in 4000 miles is normal, that should be unacceptable. Toyota cut some corners, but the customer will pay for it all in time and stress. In my case, several weeks worth of days off x 8 hours pay in the hope that I can wear some Toyota service rep down far enough to fix the software for the push button start.

My 2006 Accord LX, now with 245,000 miles, a fresh Ca smog report and new sticker, still does everything it did when new. How does the guy on tv say "set it and forget it!" I'm not willing to spend $40k or more on a car just to have a service writer who wasn't behind a McDonald's or Taco Bell counter 2 months earlier. BTW Penske Toyota isn't even registered with the BBB! According to the BBB website, there may be 1 or 2 Toyota dealers in all of L.A. county that haven't mistreated customers.

 

Bottom line is when you are considering a used car that is past the 10 year mark, buy the simplest car you can afford with what you can pay for it out of pocket. I can fix anything but that is only part of the equation. Can i fix it cost effectively? The answer is I drive an 18 year old Echo, the most basic car you could ever imagine. It has one fan belt. It has manual windows and steering. It has things you would not even consider acceptable in a modern transportation environment. I don't care what you think, I only care about the amount of crap I have to deal with to achieve the requirement of transportation.

For over 3 decades I have advised people to keep it simple when you are talking older cars and I live by that rule. Ignore it at your own peril. Keep a simple transportation appliance at your disposal and you will not suffer the price of ancient technology in a modern environment. Old hybrids are "old" and seldom retain any decent residual value, thus the rationale for buying the least complicated 17 year old car you could imagine.