What RPM? A brand new engine shouldn’t be doing much over 2500.

 

My 23 Camry with 14k miles does the same, jerk shifts, slow acceleration, I have to floor it to go and get up hills, has to downshift a lot to make it up the smallest hills. I hate it so much but I’m stuck with it, they made a technical service bulletin for the 18 and 19s but not for the new ones it fixed the transmission issues.

 

PS: what has the dealership said about it?

 

Did you test drive this car before buying?

Is it possible you incorrectly installed a floor mat that's affecting the gas pedal?

Jerky transmissions have been a problem with these Camrys since the beginning, 2017.

 

I did test drive it but a short quick drive. I was not allowed to drive into the street but mostly by a open road right next to the street. I didn't notice it when test driving it.

PS: what has the dealership said about it?

I am taking it to the dealership tomorrow. I am absolutely beside myself because this is the second car I have had issues with. The first car, within 3 days there was exessive wind noises coming from the driver side and clicking noises from the passenger side. They were gracious enough to give me a second car after I complained up the chain to the director. The initial manager said they had no return or exchange policy.. Now this second car has even bigger issues.


there are no floor mats in the car right now.

What RPM? A brand new engine shouldn’t be doing much over 2500.

the RPM doesnt go above 2500 from what I noticed. I am unsure about that.

 

It's a brand new car you should drive it for a while before thinking something is wrong. You need to get used to it and since it has an adaptive transmission it needs to get used to you. It also needs some time to break in properly, this is your first new car after all.

Also most cars now have low rolling resistance tires so it won't immediately slow down when you lift your foot off the accelerator.

If you bring this car back with complaints like the other one you will be "That Guy" to the dealership. They are going to tell you no returns and consider this a warranty claim. Then they're going to say the cars doesn't have any trouble codes and is working as designed.

 

It's a brand new car you should drive it for a while before thinking something is wrong. You need to get used to it and since it has an adaptive transmission it needs to get used to you. It also needs some time to break in properly, this is your first new car after all.

Also most cars now have low rolling resistance tires so it won't immediately slow down when you lift your foot off the accelerator.

If you bring this car back with complaints like the other one you will be "That Guy" to the dealership. They are going to tell you no returns and consider this a warranty claim. Then they're going to say the cars doesn't have any trouble codes and is working as designed.

I understand but the first car they gave me didn't have these transmission issues. It had exessive wind noises and clicking noise from the passenger side. I looked through this thread and there is a TON of people complaining about wind noise from their car for Camrys along with the clicking noise. Looks like these new camries are issue prone.

I don't want to risk driving it for a while and then the issue turns out to be massive. As far as the tire comment. It appears to pause during the areas where it should be shift changing. And there is a definite shake or feeling of a lunge around those areas. I highly doubt it is related to tires. This was also not an issue with the first car.

 

Seems like you have two options:

1) Take it back to the dealer and ask them to test-drive it.
2) Drive it for a while and see if it gets better. Not everyone likes the 8-speed transmission in newer Toyotas. It's is programmed for maximum fuel efficiency which can sometimes make it shift strangely. It's also a transmission that slowly "learns" how you drive and will adjust- so there's a possibility that it just needs to adapt to your driving style. The fact that you are saying that it is jerking though makes me think that there might be an issue that might warrant a trip to the dealer. If not for anything else- just to document that you noticed the issue. Keep the paperwork just in case it continues to be an issue.

A lot of people don't like the frequent shifting of the 8-speed and how it can hang on to gears for longer than in previous Toyota transmissions- again- this is largely the programming and intentional- for fuel efficiency purposes. It's unfortunate that your dealership wouldn't allow you to test drive it on an actual road- because it would have presented itself if you would have. 8 gears is a lot of shifting- and it can be alarming or weird for someone if they aren't used to a transmission with so many gears.

But- if you feel as though there is a problem- take it in and save the paperwork just to be on the safe side.

Good luck.

 

Seems like you have two options:

1) Take it back to the dealer and ask them to test-drive it.
2) Drive it for a while and see if it gets better. Not everyone likes the 8-speed transmission in newer Toyotas. It's is programmed for maximum fuel efficiency which can sometimes make it shift strangely. It's also a transmission that slowly "learns" how you drive and will adjust- so there's a possibility that it just needs to adapt to your driving style. The fact that you are saying that it is jerking though makes me think that there might be an issue that might warrant a trip to the dealer. If not for anything else- just to document that you noticed the issue. Keep the paperwork just in case it continues to be an issue.

A lot of people don't like the frequent shifting of the 8-speed and how it can hang on to gears for longer than in previous Toyota transmissions- again- this is largely the programming and intentional- for fuel efficiency purposes. It's unfortunate that your dealership wouldn't allow you to test drive it on an actual road- because it would have presented itself if you would have. 8 gears is a lot of shifting- and it can be alarming or weird for someone if they aren't used to a transmission with so many gears.

But- if you feel as though there is a problem- take it in and save the paperwork just to be on the safe side.

Good luck.

Yes I 100 percent agree with your input. I am going to take it to the dealership tomorrow and see what they say. I assume they are going to reset the transmission and make any updates to the software or whatever running the program. I want to at least document that I went in and had it checked just in case there is a bigger issue along the way. Can't let a jerking transmission go completely unchecked.

Additionally, I got a car initially that was making loud wind noises and clicking noises. I took that one back and exchanged it for this current one. The first car didn't have any transmission jerks so I find that strange as well. I highly doubt they will allow me to exchange again and honestly, at this point, I just want a smooth car that works like its new. I dont want to redo the paperwork for another car.

 

Demand the tech goes with you on a demonstration drive, so he/she knows exactly what you are talking about. Otherwise, the tech will drive car by themselves, and report NO problems, car is operating normally.

Worst case scenario, Lemon Law or get rid of car and get different model or completely different manufacture.

 

The reason I stated that he should drive it awhile is because there is no reason to hurry and bring it back. They already agreed to take a car back from the OP and exchange it for another one. I very seriously doubt that they're going to do this again.

The OP stated the car is a few days old and the transmission shifting isn't normal. Unless it's slamming into gears then what the OP calls "jerks into gear" maybe what someone else considers normal. We don't know what the OP previously drove. For example, if it was a car with a CVT then jerking when shifting gears is just normal gear changes that a CVT doesn't have. My point is the OP doesn't know what "normal" is for this car because he hasn't had it very long. Adaptive learning is a real thing and the car needs to time to learn his driving style and adapt to it. As others have said the Camry's 8 speed shifts completely different than the transmissions before it, and this is from folks who have owned several Toyotas before.

It's a brand new car with a warranty. If he takes it in tomorrow it will be serviced under warranty. If he takes it in 6 months from tomorrow it will be serviced under warranty. If the transmission completely fails 2 years from now it will be serviced under warranty.

 

there is a thing called lemons and it is under lemon laws

Demand the tech goes with you on a demonstration drive, so he/she knows exactly what you are talking about. Otherwise, the tech will drive car by themselves, and report NO problems, car is operating normally.

Worst case scenario, Lemon Law or get rid of car and get different model or completely different manufacture.

I will be doing this to make sure. I dont want to think about Lemon Law just yet. That is far down the road. I just want to make sure i didnt pay for a DUD. if they can fix it, i am happy

It's ok to be "that guy" when that guy is paying tens of thousands of dollars for something new, but the claims have to be substantiated.

I definitely agree its okay to be "that guy" if you arent satisfied. I work in corporate and we get a lot of legitimate complaints because people make mistakes. products can be flawed and it is the consumers right to take every step possible to make sure the seller make it right. I am happy if they can fix the issue or at least make record of it. specially like you said, paying tens of thousands of dollars for something new.

I definitely agree its okay to be "that guy" if you arent satisfied. I work in corporate and we get a lot of legitimate complaints because people make mistakes. products can be flawed and it is the consumers right to take every step possible to make sure the seller make it right. I am happy if they can fix the issue or at least make record of it. specially like you said, paying tens of thousands of dollars for something new.

I want to add, in my current job...if you dont alert our call floors or other levels of basic correspdence before it gets to corporate, that can be used against the consumer. it is always best to notify the seller or company asap so they can't use that against you



i will take your point, and yes it is true. my last car was a 2006 toyota solara. drove it for 10 plus years. i loved that car. minimum trouble...ran like a beauty. but it is a brand new car and i paid 10s of thousand for it like leyla said. it is okay for me to want to have it checked out and recorded. I work in corporate and when complaints come in, one of the details is record keeping. did the consumer notify us in a timely fashion and etc. and i have seen what mistakes can happen and products can be flawed. it isnt uncommon as you think. people just tend to ignore it and do not know proper steps to be rectified.

 

Lemon law requires that a problem has been brought in for repair 3 or more times (in most states) and the problem still hasn't been fixed. The key is that there is a diagnosed and confirmed problem such as not going into gear, slipping, torque converter shudder; it doesn't feel normal to me won't cut it for lemon law.

Since none of us have ridden in the OP's Camry we don't know exactly what he is talking about, so I acknowledge that there definitely maybe something wrong with your car. Even though there are lots of complaints about the shift quality of the 8-speed, actual transmission failures are rare. Bringing a brand new car in for service because it doesn't feel right but still operating normally is jumping the gun IMO. If was slipping, not going into gear or slamming into gear where the car shudders I would definitely agree that you should bring it in immediately. Keep in mind that techs drive brand new cars every day so if they go with you on a ride and say they don't feel anything wrong it's probably because his butt gauge has felt other brand new 8-speeds shifting similarly. A brand new car needs time to break in or as my cousin who is a mechanic says, wear in. Your car has a full warranty and you have 5 years/60,000 miles to take care of any problems there maybe with the transmission. My advice is that if it's shifting firmly but still going into drive and reverse and going through all 8 gears with no slipping just keep driving it.

Everything is very tight and miles and time are needed for all the powertrain components to wear in together. This is why there is a break in procedure you have to follow to ensure long term reliable operation. Your transmission pan has magnets in it because the gears will shave off metal from each other in normal operation as they work together and the magnets will catch the particles. Most of this will happen when it's brand new. You will see more buildup on a the first fluid change than you will on subsequent changes (back in the day when you dropped the pan 😒) . Same thing with the clutches. You're told not to drive at one steady speed for long periods of time and to avoid hard acceleration to allow your piston rings to set properly against the cylinder walls. This is one reason new cars can burn a little bit of oil. All perfectly normal. This wear in is why vehicles get better gas mileage as they get older. You will get better fuel efficiency when it has 10,000 miles on it than you do with 100 miles on it, less internal resistance in the powertrain.

When I bought my Camry it was 3 years old and had 38,000 miles on it. The transmission shifting was AWFUL. It would shift from 1st to 2nd as soon as you got going and fall on its face. This makes you give it more gas to accelerate then it would have to downshift then upshift again. Essentially, unless I really put the pedal down, it would shift 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, every time you pulled off from a stop. Now at 105,000 miles it's better than it was because it's relearned my driving style and doesn't shift as quickly from 1st to 2nd but it still likes to go into the highest gear as soon as it can but it's noticeably better. Apparently the person who owned it before me drove it like a grandpa and I don't, not even close. This relearn didn't happen quick at all, it took a very long time. Your adaptive learn won't take long because it's in learn mode being brand new and there is no previous learned program to change. But it still needs time. Think of it like a shoe. When they're brand new they may hurt your feet but as you continue to wear them they conform to the shape of your foot and feel much better.

At the end of the day this is your car and you should do what gives you peace of mind.

 

Hi I appreciate this input. This has actually made me feel a lot better about the shifting. I just want a working car. It is a long term investment for me because I am not a big car guy, just want a car that can give me 10 years or so without any serious problems like transmissio or engine issues. Do you think it would be a good idea to take the car into the mechanic to at least have a look for lemon law records? They might choose to reset the transmission and reprogram it which I heard really helps.

I will add that in your situation, the shifting is expected to be awful because there was another driver before you. There is no prior driver before me on this one. So it shouldnt be causing issues. This is also a 2023 model, where I understand these glitches have been fixed. Of all the issues a car can have, transmissio and engine issues are the most costly usually. So I am definetly concerned.

 

I just purchased a new 2023 Camry LE and also noticed the shifting characteristics. I also knew up front that the transmission "learned" the driving style of the driver so I am not alarmed. I'm currently at 600 miles and it has smoothed out a lot. It wasn't that bad to begin with though. Some people just treat the gas pedal like a "go" button with no thought of the transmission having to shift through gears as you accelerate, and that can create a jerky experience. Just give it time, I think you will be pleased with it. I think the 2.5 / 8 speed in these are an excellent combo.

 

My 23 Le shifts hard won’t downshift right at all and I’ve complained 5 times now, they said to keep complaining for an update. The 18 and 19 ones got a tsb for the transmission and fixed a lot of issues, I’m not happy with my Camry at all and accelerates slow and shifts hard.

 

I think you have 30 days to return it and walk away by law, not sure if that is still true or not. I call these things gear hunters. Mine is 5 speed, but I typically stay off the gas and let it do it's thing because of the nature of it. If I want to get on the gas I pick what gear its in so no gear hunting, and I'm often pulling the lever back and down to find 3rd gear. If I stomp on the gas I have no idea what it will do, I'm assuming not good things, these are chick cars, just my opinion. I have an 09, it's getting a new radiator in about a week, once I get the part, put it off, but now it's summer and ok I'll do it. I've learned to drive it nice. I added a 2003 three years ago, I would love to find another 4th gen with lower miles and dump this thing, I like the 4 speed for town driving, I think the older camry's were all better, I still see the 3rd gen's being driven as the motors can go up to 500k. But, whatever, I live in the city and people drive like they are in rocket ships now, whereas I've slowed way down.

 

If programmed right, I welcome more gears. Both of our vehicles have 8 speeds now and I love them.

 

Mitsubishi had a 30day return policy way back, when they first started in the US. It nearly bankrupted them, as A LOT people abused it driving the car for upto 30days, w/ no intention of buying.

 

Mitsubishi had a 30day return policy way back, when they first started in the US. It nearly bankrupted them, as A LOT people abused it driving the car for upto 30days, w/ no intention of buying.

Mitsubishi cars were terrible at one point. Why blame the customers?

 

I'd point out they never allowed a real test drive. Did it have 0 miles? If it had several, they may have known about it.

Hopefully it's just learning how you drive. Have you tried it in ECO and Sport modes?

 

If I was told by a dealership I could not properly test drive a new car I would walk out.

 

100%. There is absolutely no way that I'd ever buy a car without a proper test drive. I've never had a dealership tell me that I couldn't test drive a car before buying. These are mass produced vehicles- Toyota is pretty reliable overall but bad apples still make it through. There's nothing worse than buying a new car and spending a bunch of money- only to realize shortly after buying it that it has issues.

How else are you supposed to get a sense of seat comfort, performance, and ensure that there are no annoying squeaks/rattles before purchase? As long as you aren't putting on tons of miles, I can't imagine why a dealership wouldn't allow you to test drive it before signing off on the paperwork.

I recently traded in my Highlander XLE for a Platinum. Even being very familiar with the current generation Highlander's driving dynamics and controls- I still took it for a test drive for about an hour- and the dealer had no issue with it. You really have to drive it on a variety of different road types and surfaces to ensure that you are going to like it.

 

Ask to speak with a tech or just head over to the service desk and ask if there is a specific way to drive the car for the computer to learn the transmission. If yes, disconnect the battery for an hour, better yet over night, reconnect and do the "drive cycle".

 

Disconnecting the battery will not reset the learned data. It has to be reset with a scan tool.

 

Has anyone bothered to ask where the OP lives? State laws very and if in a different country, then their rules could be alot more different.

 

Make a dealer appt and start documenting the issue. Also research your states Lemon Law.

 

When I bought my 2015 Camry LE, not only did the engine/transmission computer need to adapt to me, but I really needed to adapt to the car as well, since my former car was completely different and of an older design.

I hated the transmission gear-hunting, which could be abrupt at times, with more than one shift happening and then immediately dropping back one gear. But I learned that it's shifting behavior was usually because the car didn't know that I was ascending a freeway over-pass, so it would up-shift and slow down unless I kept my right foot moving downward as I started to climb any such small hills at city speeds. The same thing was going on when the car didn't seem to know that I was on a freeway on-ramp (and wanting to quickly get the speed up well past 50mph).

There was also the hyper-sensitive "drive-by-wire" gas pedal which seemed to immediately launch hard from a stop and then seemed to back off while the transmission up-shifted repeatedly as car came up to around 20-30mph.
But I learned that this is just how the entire engine/transmission drivetrain computer is programmed to achieve highest gas mileage, so that less power is delivered as you might be approaching the next traffic signal (and thus wasting that power into the brakes).

So overall, even years later, I continue to adapt to the car, as the car has continued to adapt to me (the previous owner was elderly, but I zeroed-out all of the adaptive memory two or three years ago when I replaced the battery). The result is that the car definitely isn't doing so much excessive shifting any more, so should last a very long time, especially as I performed a very thorough 9-1/2-quart transmission fluid exchange at only 23k miles using Toyota WS fluid (which was only $9/quart back then in 2019).

 

Take one of the mechanics for a drive so you can point out exactly what and when it happens. Otherwise we’ve all heard this before, “we couldn’t replicate anything out of the ordinary”

 

My heart goes out to you Ovi91900
My 2021 SE has been flawless in virtually all aspects ever since I bought it over 2 years and 18K miles ago. My transmission has been smooth as silk every since I drove it off the lot and it never had to "learn" my driving habits. Oil changes and tire rotations every 5K miles at dealer (about every 8 months) are it. Best wishes to you. Keep us posted.

 

I've heard extremely mixed reviews about the 8 speed - some have zero complaints and others end up dumping new cars. I do not understand the need for the transmission to be "adaptive" in nature, maybe somebody can explain it to me.

Two of the exact same model cars can shift completely differently depending on who "taught" the transmission how to behave. It makes it more difficult to diagnose problems and there ends up with finger pointing between the customer and dealer.

 

I have a 23 Le Camry too 10k miles now and it doesn’t wanna downshift very much in normal, shifts hard, and barely wants to accelerate sometimes, the 18 and 19 had a service bulletin to fix the tourque converter problems with these 8 speeds and I’ve complained 5 times now and they told me to keep complaining to get an update to help the shifting and acceleration. I’m not happy with my Camry but I’m stuck with it now.

 

One thing you can do which will help these adaptive transmissions shift better is to keep the pedal moving down when trying to command acceleration.
Most of us may be in the habit of pushing down the accelerator pedal to some position and leaving it there, but perhaps not far enough for these new car's computers to get the message.
So in lieu of simply pushing the pedal far down into it's travel (which can make for very abrupt acceleration in low gear), I push it a seeminly normal amount, but keep it moving down as needed until it responds with a downshift.
The same holds for when a steep incline might be causing the car to decelerate when for instance going up/over a freeway overpass in the city. I keep the pedal moving down to prevent any unwanted upshifts that might otherwise occur (causing the car to slow down).

These car's electronic throttle is designed to accelerate briskly off of the line from a stop, as this earlier acceleration effort/energy is less likely to end up as heat going into the brakes (versus later acceleration that might be occurring as you are nearing the next traffic signal). It's a strategy to extract more mpg, and is an effective one at that, since the initial acceleration effort benefits the car's speed starting at an earlier time, so acts for a longer period of time versus any subsequent acceleration as and after the car has begun up-shifting.

Not only do these cars "learn the driver", but of course the driver learns the ways of the car's drive-by-wire algorithm.
So I have learned to be consistent in letting the car know when I am wanting to keep the engine working hard (by keeping the gas pedal moving down under my foot).
It took me well over a year to figure this out by the way, helped by the fact that I understood the logic/strategy of accelerating harder from a standstill and then upshifting into a cruising state so as to reduce fuel consumption. My car doesn't seem to be able to figure out on it's own though that I am going uphill until I lay into the gas pedal a good amount. And it also doesn't quickly recognize that I am wanting to get up to freeway speed in a hurry while I am on an entrance ramp unless I lay into the throttle.

I do appreciate how the computer manages to wring so many miles out of each gallon of gas, so am forgiving of it's need to be told firmly what to do (my right foot doing all of the talking).
And I am pretty sure that my consistent use of the throttle to command prompt acceleration has by now altered the car's powertrain algorithm (electronic throttle and shifting). So we are getting along much better in everyday driving.
When I first bought my Camry, it's previous owner having reached his late eighties, the overall acceleration response felt quite subdued. Now it seems quicker-responding, but I still get great mpg as long as my trip lengths aren't too short for the engine to be at full operating temperature.

 

Interesting comments from dddd. I have also noticed strange behavior on steep inclines, almost like the car strains to climb my driveway. It needs much greater gas pedal travel to get it moving, vs the '99 Avalon would respond more briskly with much less pedal travel.

I would love to understand exactly how the adaptive algorithm code is written. I don't really get why there is need for the adaptive learning, transmissions shifted fine when they used simple inputs like engine RPM and rate that the acceleator pedal was pressed. Now we add additional driver behavior inputs to the mix and get transmissions that act like there is a problem. To add insult to injury, its not repeatable, two identical model cars can shift completely differently and the dealer says "operating as designed".

I know of one case on a Lexus ES350 the driver could not stand how his car shifted, took it to the dealer, got a loaner ES350 that drove perfectly, and the dealer said "many people drove the loaner car and trained it differently due to the adaptive transmission". The owner offered to have his car be used as a loaner for a while which the dealer refused. He ended up ditching his ES 350.

Why would the car make care to extract a slightly better MPG (if that's really the reason) by adding all this complexity, when it doesn't even show up in the EPA testing? It certainly doesn't make the car drive any smoother, people were fine when there was no such thing as adaptive learning transmissions but now there are complaints. Rant over

 

Wow I bought my first Toyota ... a 2020 AWD XSE a month ago and couldn't be happier. Its a 2.5 so yup it will hunt for the best gear or I'll just put it in manual mode and shift with the paddle shifters....perfect! Oh and I can definetley tell the tranny adapts to your driving.
As previous posters said ask for a tech to go with you for a ride to demonstrate your issues. All covered under warranty. You can always call Toyota of NA too... 800-331-4331
Good luck!

 

Yeah I have all the same issues, I have a 23 Camry le with 14,250 miles on it it’s been a hell hole of a car. It jerks under shifts, it also sometimes won’t downshift when slowing down and going back on the gas, it’s so slow acceleration and I have to almost floor it to make it go!! I wish I could get ride of it but I owe to much on it, the 18 and 19s made a tap bulletin for the transmission which made it way better but haven’t for the newer ones! These 8 speeds are crappy and I hate the car and almost say screw mpg I’m flooring it every time and I know it’s bad but it won’t drive properly when just normally driving it.