If you are not going to go by what is listed in the owners manual for oil and filter then just do what ever you want to do .

 

Not sure your point- I am going by the owners manual -10k OCI with synthetic 0W-20.

I know that is good enough to get the car out of warranty but is it good enough to get the car to 200-250k

You have almost the same setup as I do. My wife owns a 07 Lexus ES-350 (same engine as ours) over 270k miles. And I own a 2014 Highlander 3.5l AWD.

However, I do oil changes every 5k miles. I know it works. Currently have over 200k miles and no oil issues what-so-ever.
Let's see how your highlander when it reaches 250k miles.

Yes that is what I am thinking of. I have sent two oil samples to blackstone, one at my first 10k OCI , last one about 110k . Both came back fine (they said I could try 13 k miles). I do not see deposits in the oil cap area nor in combustion chamber.

I have to do my spark plugs so will be able to scope the cylinder walls.

The one thing a lot of folks miss in the description of what type of driving is ok for a 10k interval. Not sure how many people are doing 10k OCI and due to short trips , towing or higher temps need to do 5 k

 

I have a '07 Camry / 3.5 V6, car has 250k miles uses basically zero oil (5W-30) in 5-6k mile oil change interval. Been a fantastic vehicle for the 200k miles I put on it.

A few years back we bought a used '16 Highlander 3.5 V6 non hybrid with 32k on it. Now have 130k

You have almost the same setup as I do. My wife owns a 07 Lexus ES-350 (same engine as ours) over 270k miles. And I own a 2014 Highlander 3.5l AWD.

However, I do oil changes every 5k miles. I know it works. Currently have over 200k miles and no oil issues what-so-ever.
Let's see how your highlander when it reaches 250k miles.

 

I like 5K OCIs also, regardless of owner's manual saying 10K is ok, it is Cheap insurance, just in case it matters....

 

5K on whatever the dealer is using, could be full syn, could be a blend. Because I don't know, I just do it @ 5K.

 

Picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue... like the avatar photo. one of my favorites

Yeah at 5 k I think oil choice doesn't matter and not a bad way to do it.

 

The operative words are "normal" vs "severe" driving conditions.
Then you have to look "severe" up to see if it applies.
Since you do your own, you know if it is full synth or blend.
Beside the manual specifies synth 10K (and I interpret that as FULL synth) and the Synthetic mfg 10K statements, some types even say 20K. I go with 10K.
It is all about their recipe. Then it is all about your opinion.

 

Would also interpret synthetic as full not blend.

How many miles on your vehicle with 10k OCI?

 

550k on Rav4h with 20k oil changes and zero engine issues. The guy did an oil analysis to confirm 20k is ok first and then raked up 550k miles with this OCI. So 10k is definitely safe as long as you can guarantee good quality oil is used.

500,000 Miles On My 2017 RAV4 Hybrid Limited!

Without a doubt this is the best car I have ever owned as well as the most low maintenance. Neither the engine nor the 'transmission' has needed any repair nor do they have any leaks. Only wear items have needed to be replaced. I've changed the engine oil every 20,000 miles using Mobil 1...

www.rav4world.com

 

"Not trying to start another oil thread.."

.....and yet you did.

 

I know ... I was trying to dissuade the typical this oil is better than that oil anecdotal BS that normally accompanies oil ... just if you have 150-250 k miles and you do 10 k OCI does it burn oil.

550k on Rav4h with 20k oil changes and zero engine issues. The guy did an oil analysis to confirm 20k is ok first and then raked up 550k miles with this OCI. So 10k is definitely safe as long as you can guarantee good quality oil is used.

500,000 Miles On My 2017 RAV4 Hybrid Limited!

Without a doubt this is the best car I have ever owned as well as the most low maintenance. Neither the engine nor the 'transmission' has needed any repair nor do they have any leaks. Only wear items have needed to be replaced. I've changed the engine oil every 20,000 miles using Mobil 1...

www.rav4world.com

Interesting real world thread.

Mostly highway miles? Only one thing in thread I would disagree on- my North American made Toyotas have been just a durable as the Japan made ones.

 

I change the oil on my 2014 Hghlander V6 AWD at the dealership in the spring and in the fall, and because I'm retired that works out to less than 3000-4000 km between oil changes, I check the oil before having the service done and usually the oil isn't that dirty or needing a topup. All other fluids; transmission, transfer case and rear differencial are done by mileage, as I tow my boat with this vehicle.

 

Air filters are important, also, in engine longevity.

 

To engine longevity? Really? Please explain how and why.

 

For every gallon of gas your engine consumes - it'll consume 10,000 gallons of air. Unfiltered air can/will dirty the oil and dirt in oil can shorten the life of an engine.

 

i. just. cant. bring. myself. to. do. the. 10k. oil. change. lol

i think it has to do with the piston rings more than anything.

low tension piston rings are/were kindda new to cars. and nobody really advertised them. its all for fuel efficiency and was done in the background without the public really being aware. extending oil changes also allowed car manufacturers to advertise low cost of ownership and little to no maintenance required.

these two thigs lead to the rings gumming up and not having the fore to spring back out (seal properly). this leads to oil consumption.

the funny thing is that the oil itself can last a long time. all the people with blackstone oil reports can verify.
I have an Allis Chalmers 410 tractor from 1974 that ive never changed oil on simply because it never needed oil lol (still runs). ya, i know, its not a car and its completely different. i get it. just thought it was funny.

on the other side of things i had a rav4 with 330k miles on it. (still running). the oil came from a 55gal drum that just said "motor oil". i asked the mech about the weight and he said. "dont worry, its all weights." lol
the oil was changed at 5k like clock work though.
bought it used with 30k on it.

i get the idea that people argue about oil quality and OCI's but neither one is the sole answer. i believe the issue is OCI's and LTPR's that leads to oil consumption. its not just one thing but a combination of things.

funny thing is, my brother has a fleet of vehicles and he does the 20k oil changes while i do the 5k oil changes. neither one of us try to convince the other... lol

 

i. just. cant. bring. myself. to. do. the. 10k. oil. change. lol

i think it has to do with the piston rings more than anything.

low tension piston rings are/were kindda new to cars. and nobody really advertised them. its all for fuel efficiency and was done in the background without the public really being aware. extending oil changes also allowed car manufacturers to advertise low cost of ownership and little to no maintenance required.

these two thigs lead to the rings gumming up and not having the fore to spring back out (seal properly). this leads to oil consumption.

the funny thing is that the oil itself can last a long time. all the people with blackstone oil reports can verify.
I have an Allis Chalmers 410 tractor from 1974 that ive never changed oil on simply because it never needed oil lol (still runs). ya, i know, its not a car and its completely different. i get it. just thought it was funny.

on the other side of things i had a rav4 with 330k miles on it. (still running). the oil came from a 55gal drum that just said "motor oil". i asked the mech about the weight and he said. "dont worry, its all weights." lol
the oil was changed at 5k like clock work though.
bought it used with 30k on it.

i get the idea that people argue about oil quality and OCI's but neither one is the sole answer. i believe the issue is OCI's and LTPR's that leads to oil consumption. its not just one thing but a combination of things.

funny thing is, my brother has a fleet of vehicles and he does the 20k oil changes while i do the 5k oil changes. neither one of us try to convince the other... lol

I know I feel the same way... Used to change at 3k on dino oil back in the day. I think I'm going to leave this at 10k and see how it goes to 200k. I go back and forth....

 

Another oil change interval consideration is operating temperature. When an engine is cold it will run rich until it is up to temp. This leads to an increase in fuel dilution. Short trips during a cold winter would be the worst case scenario for this. I personally do a 7,500 mile OCI because I drive so many highway miles. In winter I cut that to 5k (one oil change per year) because of potential fuel dilution. My daily commute is just under 20 miles one way maintaining a speed around 60 (I drive slow). Even under my ideal driving conditions I wouldn't consider going out to 10k. Even my 7.5k oil changes seem a bit aggressive to me.

 

3500 mile oil 'n filter changes. Short trips; can't burn all that condensation out. Air filters every 12-15000 miles. Because I can and all that is cheaper than parts.

 

Back in the 1990s, Consumer Reports did the cab study:

Two-Year, N.Y. Taxi Test Proves Motor Oils Alike, Magazine Says | The Seattle Times

but the recommendations changed in 2023, but are not based on a detailed study of engines as in 1990s

Should You Use Synthetic Oil in Your Car? - Consumer Reports

Consumer Reports presents the advantages and downsides of using synthetic oil in your car, and why you might want to consider synthetic engine oil.

www.consumerreports.org

I buy a bulk oil analyses account at Blackstone and analyzed 1 sample annually. For the 1st 5 years of a new Matrix 2003 I changed oil per the manual interval, 7500 or less, highway driving. Then from year 6 onward, it was oil change annually. The result after 20 years? No change in engine wear parameters based on Blackstone data to date 2023. Toyota branded oil non-synthetic, showed early signs of breakdown when I broke 15,000 mi between changes. Subjectively, the engine is as peppy as it was in 2003. So, I do 10,000 mi changes which matches my annual interval. Zero oil consumption between changes. Air filter changed annually.

As the 2003 1ZZ engine is made differently from modern Corolla low tension DFI engines today, I think a direct answer to what is best for you is to match your driving style and engine type, and for folks concerned with extending oil changes beyond the factory recommended interval is to analyze your oil to see factual changes, most important is the trend, before you experience physical changes, which is too late. It likely varies for conditions the car is used, i.e., city vs highway vs in between, as well as the type of engine in your car.

 

Hi Cantor,
Regarding new vs older design engines, there was a fairly universal "new and improved" engine design change in the last ten years or so that really challenged a lot about the conventional wisdom of longer interval oil changes ......even w/ syn. oil. Its caused numerous class action lawsuits. You may have heard that car manufacturers have almost universally adopted the idea that "low pressure" piston rings...... or rings that offer "less expanding pressure" against the inside of the cylinders....... create less friction which equates to more engine efficiency and a boost to their CAFE mileage. Reality oftentimes disagrees with what was supposed to be great engineering design theory that was even peer-reviewed because its time, heat and mileage that actually tests those math theories. What has been discovered is that the low pressure oil rings almost universally tend to get increasing gummed up and carboned up to the point that they no longer keep the oil out of the combustion chamber and cars are burning huge volumes of oil over only 1000 miles. These engines generally start burning the "blow-by" oil caused by these new-tangles oil rings at well below 100,000 miles. All that blow-by oil carbons up engine head, pistons, etc and contaminates and eventually kills your cars cat. converter. Apparently the only way to address it is to change your oil more frequently before it starts losing viscosity to evaporation by heat. It was very interesting to find out in a video by Deutche Auto Parts that Audi/VW already have designed new pistons to address their class action problem. Nobody in that video got into the weeds and compared the old vs new pistons ring groove dimensions and ring tensions to each other but it's an entirely new part and the engine rebuild costs $7-8000. For that reason, I'll crawl under the car every 5,000 miles which is what I always started when I got my first of 4 diesels. I still has a dieslgate diesel and wish that I could have bought another. The 2025 beats it in combined mileage but the VW TDI engines are built like tanks,

Check out the video, its well done,
Mike

 

300 miles on a track built engine, lol.

 

I change mine every 3-4k miles using full synthetic 5W-30. 2017 Highlander SE here with 115k running great.

 

hmmmm yes, 20k oil changes. that must be why Porsche is considered one of the most reliable cars out there.
BMW is another long OCI vehicle. they too are know for stellar reliability.
lol

 

BMW is another long OCI vehicle. they too are know for stellar reliability.

Says who? BMW is NOT considered a very reliable vehicle. They are a high-end luxury vehicle with average to below average ratings.

There's mixed bags on their long term oil changes. BMW has now recommended oil changes every 10k miles instead of 15k. Several people on BMW forums have posted the sludge in their engines that were rebuilt. It's not pretty.

 

Alas, using how engine 'feels' as proof that extending oil changes is possible is not a foolproof guide. Many engines that fail do not suffer from perceived performance until fails, which is often leaking oil, sdden engine trouble later found as scoured piston walls, noises from blown rod/bearing etc, without notice, and during a rebuild, find the issue and the oil crud build up. None of the youtube mechanics show oil analysis of such engines before failure, however, and there is no data to say oil analysis alone the best guide.

Oil sensors in cars often are dumb reminders [ 6mo or 5,000 mi whichever is earlier] based on the owners manual, but it is known on several US makes, an algorithm is used and proprietary. So even if there is truth to it, it can't be verified objectively, nor its contents known.

Oil Life Monitoring Systems | Edmunds

Many carmakers are using oil life monitoring systems that save oil and cut service costs.

www.edmunds.com

Above is based on < 2010 year.

Since the algo and method can change anytime, its hard to say what the ECU reminder means from the same model but different year, and moreso even between different models.

So I don't see any resolution to this argument to say something to all cars.

Suffice to say I have 20 years of accumulated data on my engine analysis showing no change in the analysis components, the engine feels good, and its now at 201K mi on all stock parts from 2002, doing OCI at under 10,000 mi once a year. It works for me but I could throw a rod tomorrow, or last years tomorrow, or the year before that. Maybe it has nothing to do with OCI but I lucked in on a good engine? Maybe its because I travel 6x a year over 600mi one way on the Matrix so it gets a good highway drive, and I also do an 'italian tune up' at least monthly or more, getting into entry ramps and blow everything out?

 

Mike, i think you missed the joke. lol
i should have ended it with /s

 

Just for information sake on 5 vs 10k intervals. My oil analysts were lower in wear metals and breakdown from startup fuel dilution on 5k combined interval totals vs 10k single results. Same oil and filter, normal driving conditions and same travel route the whole time with my daily drivers, 2azfe and J series Honda.
Long story short, the oil no matter how good starts losing its protective abilities somewhere with prolonged use and accrues contaminate from fuel dilution and fine air particulates. Although with Amsoil Signature the results were not as high with 10k (22 Highlander 0w20). Superior oils could be fine at higher intervals like 10 maybe 15k but it's cheap insurance if your the DIY type.
Sooner intervals also help reduce and remove varnish, buildup and prevent deposits, also the matter of Synthetic vs Conventional (DINO) and base oil from natural gas vs non. Any fluid refreshed sooner is absolutely critical with newer vehicles within internal tolerances/wear/piston rings/blow by/consumption and systems like VVT/VTEC prescreens, ATF clutch packs benefit from sooner intervals to remove any wear particles that get by the filter and prolong the filter life, especially if no magnetic drain plugs like Toyotas vs Honda that are OE. There has been much discussion about friction modifiers too for the ATF fan boys like myself.

All my vehicles get changed sooner than "recommended", this go's for coolant/trans/brake/power steering if a fluid system and most depending on what other technology like oil flow solenoids or an open system get a small bump up in viscosity with higher mileage engines.
I have never had a personal vehicle with issues due to fluids if I was the original owner or purchased with low miles and started intervals sooner. I've seen how clean the internals are and free of scaring when tearing down to build for track purpose on 3 engines..

 

i had a saturn back in the day. towards the end of its life it was burning so much oil, i just stopped changing it. i would only add to it.
after a short while (all things considered) i was adding oil and it filled up the valve cover. it had a hard time draining into the block/sump. this was expected and came as no surprise. i remember thinking "welp, thats probably not good".
it had other issues, a dirty title, high mileage, and was worth more in scrap.

just thought it was a pretty funny story.

 

i had a saturn back in the day. towards the end of its life it was burning so much oil, i just stopped changing it. i would only add to it.
after a short while (all things considered) i was adding oil and it filled up the valve cover. it had a hard time draining into the block/sump. this was expected and came as no surprise. i remember thinking "welp, thats probably not good".
it had other issues, a dirty title, high mileage, and was worth more in scrap.

just thought it was a pretty funny story.

Saturns had a big oil burning issue in the day. Just had a similar convo with a sales guy who called on me at work his Camry Hyrbid with 350 k used about 4-5 qts a month. He would change the filter once a year and constantly top off. This was one of the early low tension ring 4 cylinders that Toyota replaced a lot of shortblocks on. Not sure how he missed the campaign or already was otuside the milage due to the milage ...

 

I use 5W30 full synthetic Supertech oil and Denso filters every 5000 miles on both our Camrys. This is in the deep south with a mix of 10 mile trips and 40 to 80 mile round trips. Developed this pattern over 20 years ago seems to work well for me.

 

Not trying to start another oil thread...

I have a '07 Camry / 3.5 V6, car has 250k miles uses basically zero oil (5W-30) in 5-6k mile oil change interval. Been a fantastic vehicle for the 200k miles I put on it.

A few years back we bought a used '16 Highlander 3.5 V6 non hybrid with 32k on it. Now have 130k, I do my own maint including oil changes and have changed the oil 10k intervals using M1 extended performance OW-20. I have seen zero issues or oil consumption with this interval.

Is this what others are seeing- anyone who did 10k oil changes start experiencing oil burning at higher miles ? I usually keep mine to about 200k miles. Would love to take advantage of the longer OC interval, just for someone who grew up doing 3k OCI it is a leap of faith...Keeping the Camry longer for my kids to hopefully get to 300k...

Also just bought a 21 Venza with 2.5L 4 cyl/hybrid- anyone know if this engine needs a 5k oil change interval as some respect (thinking Care Car Nut) sources say?

Using full synthetic, I change oil/filter every 3K. Overkill? Maybe, but oil's cheap.

 

Not trying to start another oil thread...

I have a '07 Camry / 3.5 V6, car has 250k miles uses basically zero oil (5W-30) in 5-6k mile oil change interval. Been a fantastic vehicle for the 200k miles I put on it.

A few years back we bought a used '16 Highlander 3.5 V6 non hybrid with 32k on it. Now have 130k, I do my own maint including oil changes and have changed the oil 10k intervals using M1 extended performance OW-20. I have seen zero issues or oil consumption with this interval.

Is this what others are seeing- anyone who did 10k oil changes start experiencing oil burning at higher miles ? I usually keep mine to about 200k miles. Would love to take advantage of the longer OC interval, just for someone who grew up doing 3k OCI it is a leap of faith...Keeping the Camry longer for my kids to hopefully get to 300k...

Also just bought a 21 Venza with 2.5L 4 cyl/hybrid- anyone know if this engine needs a 5k oil change interval as some respect (thinking Care Car Nut) sources say?

Living in the northeast I have the same 3.5 v6 in my tacoma using 0w20 mobil1 extended performance since 2019 only doing once a year 10k mile oil changes. Truck runs perfect like new. I see no issues needing an oil change any sooner after having Blackstone claiming it was still good to run further.

 

How many miles ? - I am up to 153 k on our 2016 no signs that the 10k oil change has hurt anything, but I do think the 3.5 is more bulletproof than some other engines.

on the other hand my 07 camary with 5-6k M1 changes (since i bought it w 49k) just passing 263k with zero oil use. Does have some piston slap espec when cold that developed around 200k. Just put struts on it over the weekend hoping my daughter can get her last 2 years at college out of it.

 

Every 5K since new with Mobil 1 synthetic 0w-20.
Just did the 160K oil change today.
Oil is cheaper than an engine especially if you're planning on keeping it for 250-300K miles.