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(Solved) 2GR-FE Loud VVT Sound High RPM (ACIS Actuator)

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1.8K views 29 replies 5 participants last post by  highzt  
#1 ·
Hello,
My V6 is at 270,000 miles.
When i am between 3,750 and 4,250 RPM, my engine makes a very loud VVT noise that almost sounds like the cold start death rattle that other cars develop as they age.
The noise is throttle dependent, meaning it only happens when the throttle is above about 70%.
For example, I could be between the rev range stated above, but be at low throttle, and not hear the noise. But at high throttle between those revs, it makes the sound. The sound is not present above 4,250RPM even at full throttle. Here is a link to my video of the sound. Does anyone else experience this?


I used to hear this sound when the the temperature outside was extremely cold (below 20F), but now it happens even on a hot summer day. Could it be a problem with the VVT system?
I have replaced all 4 VVT solenoids and I have replaced the 4 figure-8 gaskets under both valve covers. None of these part changes has affected the sound. I also switched to 5W-30 as an experiment but it also had no effect, and maybe even made it more prominent.
 
#2 ·
If that noise is happening when the engine rpm is near peak torque for this engine, then I am starting to suspect a possible issue with the motor mounts. This would be much worse in lower gears.

A catalytic converter with a loose core seems like another possibility, as is possible oil flow obstruction at the pickup (were air to get pulled in ahead of the oil pump).
Is the oil pan dented?
 
#4 ·
Possible oil starvation within the VVT system, could be the pre filter for VVT or solenoid itself dirty.

Also don't forget the O rings under the valve covers for the system, if beginning to be weak/collapsed and seeping oil pressure due to higher RPM ramping up the oil pump for more pressure.

And/or buildup on the pre screen filter from oil pan gunk being picked up since you stated the pan is bent.

Check or change O rings/ Pre filter and do an oil change with something known to clean. Valvoline Restore and protect, Pennzoil Platinum.

Other than that, VVT engagement sound decently smooth for that mileage.
 
#5 ·
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I have also inspected and replaced the little screen filters in the VVT oil pipes that lead to the VVT actuators. They we're perfectly clean.
I ordered a new oil pan from ebay and will be completing that job ASAP. I will update the thread after the job is complete to say if this fixed the problem.
The only other components I could imagine causing this problem would be a leak within a VVT phaser or problems with chain wear or a bad timing chain tensioner. However, the problem is never accompanied by a check engine light. This leads me to believe oil starvation is the most likely culprit. Also, it makes sense that the issue was only happening at very colt temps before, since the oil would be thicker and the pump would have a harder time sucking it out of the pan and getting it all the way to the VVT solenoids and cam phasers.
Here are some photos of the job. I'm surprised at how clean the engine is. The jobs were done at 250,000 miles and 270,000 miles.
in the close-up photos of the gaskets, you can see how compressed they are which probably indicates they we're due for replacement.
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#6 ·
All on point!

Change those O rings/gaskets and you should see some improvement. Remove and clean the VTT solenoid for the heck of it.

And that engine looks amazing for that mileage, must be top tier oil used for some time!
 
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#8 · (Edited)
Using aftermarket additives, you never quite know what your oil viscosity will be, so the Toyota oil grade chart that informs what oil grades are correct for your climate becomes useless.

Perhaps better (and cheaper!) to first choose viscosity/grade from Toyota's chart, leaving it at that so at least you know that your engine has a suitable viscosity grade in it.
Personally, I would use the money not spent on mystery additives to at least use a high quality oil changed at 5k, and save the rest.
Oil chemistry is quite complicated, and I have a hard time convincing myself that an aftermarket additive would necessarily be any better than the prescribed oil grade.
I would however only use Toyota's traditional (yet current) viscosity chart and NOT simply use what's printed on any US-market "EPA-cert" filler cap.
From the looks of your engine internals, your oil change interval and oil quality seem to be doing a very good job, not sure if the additive has anything to do with that however.

The latest SP grade oils are already significantly exceeding the performance of the car's original SN grade oil spec, and at only 5k miles (or your 4k miles) you can be sure that the oil's own tested additives will still be doing a great job.
 
#9 ·
I do understand that using additives offers marginal benefits and does change the viscosity slightly. However, these engines were designed to run 5W-30 and were only switched to 0W-20 in order to decrease emissions (less internal resistance). My fiancé's Rav 4 (Japan built) features an identical 2GR-FE and it states 5W-30 on the oil cap. I assumed that the small amount of additive in my engine would barely change my viscosity and it makes the engine run quiter (something that most 2GR-FE owners might appreciate). It quiets down the valvetrain noise and possibly offers better protection. I've seen a couple Project Farm videos about additives and it seemed like a worthy investment. However, I have done several oil change intervals with no additives and the noise in the video persists. The only thing I have left to try is replacing the oil pan, which I will be doing in a few days.
 
#10 ·
I agree about the engine being noisy using 0W20, and my 2015 is at very low mileage.
I changed to 5W30 and the engine got quieter upon startup.
And since I don't need 0W-anything here in California, I settled on 10W30 for it being in the middle of Toyota's recommended oil grades (ignoring the US-market single-lightest-grade spec).

There are currently a number of different oil additive strategies being used by the oil companies for their many different products, and I can't see how an aftermarket oil additive booster can be certain to benefit all of them, so I just use an oil grade suitable for my climate.
I figure that with <5k oil change interval, the additives any good synthetic oil will be performing to very high standards for the entire time.
Costco doesn't offer a 10W30 oil, so I'm back to using Mobil1 or Castrol, still pretty cheap in the 5-quart jugs.
My old truck also uses 10W30, so one oil for both vehicles is another benefit.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Well, that sucks..
So true feed from the oil pickup with the pan replaced, new VVT gaskets, and given the clean/good condition of the internals of the engine from the pics you posted I wouldn't suspect that the VVT prescreen is dirty and the VVT solenoid should be clean also.
So this points solely to mechanical since the oil pressure "should" be good now for the VVT system.

I would say do some high detergent oil or a non solvent engine flush but I don't think the VVT phaser would be dirty given the clean engine condition.

However that's the only thing I can come up with.

Also not forgetting that the engine, though clean, has 270k on it.

Do yo have a obd2 scan tool or an App and Bluetooth obd2 port reader that can read the timing advance with live data? If not the Bluetooth readers are around 20$ on Amazon. The "Car scanner" app is free.
You could ride around and trigger the issue and see if the timing degree bounces around on the live data, signifying that the phaser is "searching" for engagement. This was the only way I was about to find a problem one one customer car, that also had very clean engine conditions.
 
#17 ·
With 270K its a good point of interest!

Easy to check with the valve cover off, turn the crank bolt to inspect the paint marks, if gone or dull from overheating then yes a chain and possibly a new tension. Could be either main(s) or sub chain(s) (shorter) that turns the exhaust cam(s).

With the valve cover off inspecting the chain paint marks it would be a good time to just check for proper timing mark alignment with the cam gear/phaser(s). Although if you had chain jump you would have more than a strange noises. A CEL would defiantly be present with the cam position sensor(s) reading off spec.
 
#16 ·
I assume that when the pan got dented, that it sprung back some, so was no longer actually pressing against the pickup tube structure.
Could the pickup tube have flexed enough when the pan got dented to where it may have developed a crack and leak?

I was also thinking that since the computer controls the cam timing based on both rpm and load data, the oil flow through the solenoid valves is also being controlled by both rpm and throttle inputs, perhaps helping to explain how the noise is dependent on both rpm and throttle.

How these two considerations might be connected is anyone's guess though, and just theory.

It would be at least interesting to monitor this motor's oil pressure in real time, like in the old days with a big analog gauge on the dash, or with modern data-retaining equipment.
 
#18 ·
Was there any progress made on this? The 2GR in my Sienna (basically a fat Camry 😅) is doing the exact same thing. I've sent in some oil reports to Blackstone for analysis, but they haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary, especially compared to my 2015 Highlander with the same engine.
 
#19 ·
@Thirteenstruckdead

Hey, so I figured out that it was the ACIS making that sound on my Sienna. You can test it by unplugging it - it's the single electrical connector that attaches to the passenger side of the upper intake manifold, and no, it won't throw a code if left unplugged. If the noise goes away when you unplug it, then the ACIS is the issue.

I just replaced my upper intake with a junkyard unit because of this ($35), and the noise has gone away completely even when plugged in. I swiped it off of a 2008 Lexus RX350, but honestly any 2GR-FE intake would work.
 
#20 ·
@Thirteenstruckdead

Hey, so I figured out that it was the ACIS making that sound on my Sienna. You can test it by unplugging it - it's the single electrical connector that attaches to the passenger side of the upper intake manifold, and no, it wo

Interesting. Did the ACIS get stuck closed and lead to a restriction of air during full throttle driving, causing the engine to run poorly and make the bad sound?
I will see about getting a new intake in the meantime.
 
#22 ·
Strangely enough, it seemed to actuate just fine off the car with a power probe. No idea why it was making noise on the car. It drives a whole lot better now, though.

I think you can pick up a good intake off eBay for $100 or so.
I just unplugged the actuator today and wow! It runs amazing and the noise is gone. It Even downshifts way smoother now with the paddles. Thank you so much for telling me.
 
#23 ·
I just unplugged the actuator today and wow! It runs amazing and the noise is gone. It Even downshifts way smoother now with the paddles. Thank you so much for telling me.
Glad to help, man! I'd been wracking my brain over this noise for the last year, at least, and finally came across this post... I even reached out to Marc at Frankenstein Motorworks (does lots of 2GR-FE swaps into MR2s, knows it inside-out), and even he hadn't heard of this noise before.

I still have my old manifold, took another look at it yesterday and there's absolutely zero rattle or noise or anything when I shake it around, activated or not. I may rip it apart later just to oogle at the mechanism. I can update here if I do...
 
#30 ·
It's been almost three years since I've been trying to track down the source of this sound. Sorry to miss that thread before. I forgot to plug in my ACIS connector, and the noise disappeared. It was random, and no one I asked knew what was causing it. Replacing the junkyard manifold also helped me out. ACIS has a significant impact on your HP/Torque curve, and ATS has a webpage on their site that explains it.