Google what makes up a VIN number. A VIN number will change (by a couple digits/letters) as it moves from the build stage to being on the lot.

 

The whole last half changed drastically on my car. Interestingly, the manufacturing number was recognized as a VIN on the Toyota Owners website and showed the factory installed features planned..

 

I made an offer on a Camry I found through the Toyota Inventory Tool, It was for an AWD Ocean Gem Camry LE with Convenience And Cold Weather Option with All Weather mats and nothing else .... MSRP $33,029

I made an offer of $33,000 OTD with translates to 30,398.82 (8%) off MSRP... I said any trade-in would have to be be a separate negotiation...

It took a couple days of back and forth and but I finally got a proposal from them...

But the VIN number number on the proposal is different from the one I contacted them about...

Which makes me wonder honest mistake, or a sleazy trick...

BTW I have not even test driven one ... but I read an article that car prices are expected to rise with lower interest rates, and tariffs could drive prices even higher!

- Karen

I hope to pick up my XLE tomorrow. When it was first listed online what they listed as the VIN was really a manufacturing number. The real VIN was issued shortly before the car was assembled. My dealer tracked this ny their own stock number.

So the change in VIN may have been from a manufacturing number to a real VIN. I have trusted my salesman source for 20 years so I believe this is accurate.

 

I hope to pick up my XLE tomorrow. When it was first listed online what they listed as the VIN was really a manufacturing number. The real VIN was issued shortly before the car was assembled. My dealer tracked this ny their own stock number.

I have always bought cars that are already on the lot (and that was long ago I've had this car for 22 years) ... So how does it work when you make a deal before the dealer gets the car?

How much of deposit did you put down. What did you sign at that time? Did you do it in person?

Thanks,
- Karen

 

I hope it works out Karen. I know you have been looking for awhile.

 

Thanks...

BTW do people think this is a good deal? If it actually happens there will not be any financing and the trade-in, if it happens, would have to reduce what I actually pay (if they honor the proposal i have).

I have to admit I am leary of trusting any dealership!

Thank,
-Karen

 

I'd be satisfied with that deal. I'd also ask to see the window sticker to verify the car details and make sure that VIN matches the sales contract VIN.

 

Karen, Bwosborne is correct and allow me to share my experience. In September I used the Toyota.com corporate search tool and my goal was to find the XSE in the color I wanted with the least # of port installed add ons. I managed to find one but it was listed as, "to be built" and available 11/1-11/21. The dealer is in another state but only 90 minutes away. Once we agreed on a price and the removal of some overpriced security etch charge they asked for $1000 deposit. I used a CC. They said I could cancel anytime I wanted. I was able to track the vehicle myself on the dealer website, and on 10/31 the maroney sticker appeared with the actual VIN #.
I am picking up the car tomorrow. Good luck!

 

I contacted most of the dealers within a 150-mile radius and requested an out-the-door quote on a 2025 XLE FWD, no sunroof, specifically in Heavy Metal exterior, black interior, as few distributer/dealer add-ons as possible. Most responses were "When can we call you?" or "When can you come in?" or "Bring the wife in. We'll dicker." They claimed they needed to find out what I wanted as if it weren't already explained in detail. Of course, they just wanted to start the grind. I will never go to a car dealership until I've got a firm OTD price.

One dealer found what I wanted in build phase and discounted it about $1200. It had a couple silly add-ons, but less than the $1200 so I said yes. I put down a $1000 deposit. Six weeks they said the car had come in and I made an appointment to come pick it up two days out. The day before that appointment, they called to say they sold the car to someone else. That's apparently common - they are really holding an auction, but the buyer doesn't know that. They did refund my deposit.

I reached out to more dealers and found one in build that not only had a comparable price but was willing to take off all distributor/dealer B.S. like "ToyoGuard" (basically two oil changes two years from now for $700). That further reduced the OTD. I was skeptical this would actually happen, but I took delivery, paid cash, and happy with my purchase.

 

I like to get down to the OTD price also, but they want you to come in for them to offer their best price; in sales if you offer your best price to someone not ready to sign and take delivery (or order with a deposit), the "customer" you gave your best price to will most likely go to another dealership with that price, and of course that other dealership will "beat" that price by $200 (or even $50) to complete the deal right then and there.

 

I made an offer on a Camry I found through the Toyota Inventory Tool, It was for an AWD Ocean Gem Camry LE with Convenience And Cold Weather Option with All Weather mats and nothing else .... MSRP $33,029

I made an offer of $33,000 OTD with translates to 30,398.82 (8% off MSRP)... I said any trade-in would have to be be a separate negotiation...

MSRP $33,029
Your OTD $33,000

I think that is a good price.

As long as your OTD (which includes taxes and all kinds of fees) is equal to or less than MSRP, then you got a good deal.

If your OTD price is more than the MSRP, then you are slowly getting a bad deal. The higher it is from the MSRP, the more they are taking advantage of you.

This is what I think about the price of your car;

Say MSRP is $33,029.
A good deal is on OTD price of $30,000 to $33,000.
Fair deal is OTD of $34,000.
Not so good of a deal is OTD of $35,000 to $36,000.
BAD DEAL is OTD of more than $3,000 of MSRP.

The MSRP on my car was $40,500.
My OTD price was $38,000.

I think I got a good deal.

I was not even in the market to buy an XSE, let alone a red car. I have always wanted an LE, then I switched my mind to an SE because I had to put leather seats in my LE. Then I stopped at a dealership on a random day and the sales people were able to convince me and got me into an XSE. Some days I do not like my XSE because I kind of never wanted a panoramic sunroof.

But overall, I really like my car and the color.

 

Well dealerships continue to live down to their reputation...

According to the Toyota Inventory build teh car was still in build
As i mentioned above the quote had a Vin # different from teh one I made the offer on and had NO details about the car...

Today I got an email from the dealership which in part said:

The vehicle you inquired about actually is no longer in our inventory so I quoted you on a vehicle that we have in stock and can offer at that price you requested. If you are interested in chatting, I would be happy to explain everything a bit more to you and how the process works so there is no confusion and you know I'm being truthful.

I replied saying that changing vehicles without telling me and providing the details on substitute vehicle was unethical.

Needless to say I will never buy anything from that dealership.

But at least some dealerships are more honest. There is one in NH that had an AWD LE Ocean Gem with both options I wanted, and All weather mats like teh other one dad (and with a few additional add-ons than were potentially useful - Door edge guards and mud flaps ) advertised for ~33,800 OTD... Not a great deal but still fair

Not having to bargain and with the extra add ons, I figured was worth it for Ocean Gem, so I started the Smarthpath buy process..but it had been on the site about a week and they said someone else had put a deposit down on it already (and I believe it) ...

They suggested other cars for slightly less money that I had seen in the inventory tool, that i could get for the advertised price, but I did not want a black interior nor black or underground exterior, so said no thank you.

I will keep an eye on their inventory.

- Karen

 

Well dealerships continue to live down to their reputation...

According to the Toyota Inventory build teh car was still in build
As i mentioned above the quote had a Vin # different from teh one I made the offer on and had NO details about the car...

Today I got an email from the dealership which in part said:



I replied saying that changing vehicles without telling me and providing the details on substitute vehicle was unethical.

Needless to say I will never buy anything from that dealership.

But at least some dealerships are more honest. There is one in NH that had an AWD LE Ocean Gem with both options I wanted, and All weather mats like teh other one dad (and with a few additional add-ons than were potentially useful - Door edge guards and mud flaps ) advertised for ~33,800 OTD... Not a great deal but still fair

Not having to bargain and with the extra add ons, I figured was worth it for Ocean Gem, so I started the Smarthpath buy process..but it had been on the site about a week and they said someone else had put a deposit down on it already (and I believe it) ...

They suggested other cars for slightly less money that I had seen in the inventory tool, that i could get for the advertised price, but I did not want a black interior nor black or underground exterior, so said no thank you.

I will keep an eye on their inventory.

- Karen

That sucks!
I am not sure I responded, but the dealer requested a $1000 deposit for my XLE but did not actually bill my credit card. I drove 3 hours to the dealer, picked up the car, and drove 3 hours home yesterday. I am impressed with the ride *& features on the XLE with Premium Plus & all weather mats.

I recommend calling the actual dealer to verify inventory, etc. I found one in SmartPath that actually had a deposit on it but was not marked as sales pending. For this car, I worked with the salesman, having hom check the status regularly. He sent me an email when the actual VIN was known (instead of the manufacturing number). He also updated me a couple of times on estimated shipping date. The car actually arrived earlier than estimated.

My dealer's policy is to technically hold the car for 24 hours after receipt before it could be sold to someone else. Of course, the car arrived at exactly the wrong time. When I arrived at the dealer, the car still had a sold tag on it.

SmartPath says the customer chooses how much to do online, but my dealer would not let me do much before arriving.

I hope you get your car & enjoy it.

 

Is the VIN they gave you be able to be located on the dealership website? If yes, is it comparable to the orginal car?

if no, call them up and ask to clarify

 

Is the VIN they gave you be able to be located on the dealership website? If yes, is it comparable to the orginal car?

Out of curiosity after you suggested it I looked at all the LEs on their website and none had the VIN..

I'm not going call them back on it as I already called them out on the attempted silent switch!

- Karen

 

I would stop analyzing the dealer intentions, as you are opening pandora's box. Instead focus on finding the right build, and reaching out to more dealers (wide radius) with that build and your target price, which at 8% after all fees but required taxes is reasonable at any volume oriented dealer in the states.

 

I would stop analyzing the dealer intentions, as you are opening pandora's box.

i knew they did no have another Ocean gem configured teh way I want in their inventory... You know if had had given me option to purchase a similarly equipped car in color I did not actively dislike at that price, I would have taken it...

Trying to switch cars silently just gets under my skin.

But I don't intend to dwell on it.

Instead focus on finding the right build, and reaching out to more dealers (wide radius) with that build and your target price, which at 8% after all fees but required taxes is reasonable at any volume oriented dealer in the states.

Is there any way to know which are volume dealers? I don't want to keep wasting my time.

I am pretty sure the NH one is but I don't know of any others.

Thanks,
- karen

 

BTW I have not even test driven one ... but I read an article that car prices are expected to rise with lower interest rates, and tariffs could drive prices even higher!

For several years after 2020, dealers sold their cars above list price due to production shortages. I know my son really searched before he ended up buying his RAV4 Prime XSE from a neighboring state for list price. currently, at least in my region. most dealers are selling for list price and a few discount further. my preferred dealer used to discount off list but no longer does that. I still chose to purchase from them due to their excellent reputation working with our family for 20 years.

 

Turns out the car they tried to sell me at my asking price for the original one was not AWD... The car I wanted was AWD with Convenience and Cold weather packages...

Not surprised.

- Karen

 

That is REALLY sleazy.

 

After test driving both the XLE and XSE we placed an order for a XLE with the Premium+ package in Ocean Gem. We had several other "must haves" on the list. My Wife wanted the XLE because it came with the lighter grey interior. We added wheels, spoiler, blacked out emblems and a trunk light.

The dealer of course asked if we could move on exterior color, int color, etc. My Wife's answer was no.

$500 refundable down payment. 8 weeks later and we had the car "exactly" as specified. Was it the lowest price? Maybe not - it was acceptable to us. Was it exactly what my wife wanted - yes.

Try talking to your dealer (or maybe another dealer). You might be surprised what you can negotiate.

I will say that there are dealers that I will buy cars from but NEVER go to for service. I am far more particular on who services our vehicles.

 

After test driving both the XLE and XSE we placed an order for a XLE with the Premium+ package in Ocean Gem. We had several other "must haves" on the list. My Wife wanted the XLE because it came with the lighter grey interior. We added wheels, spoiler, blacked out emblems and a trunk light.

The dealer of course asked if we could move on exterior color, int color, etc. My Wife's answer was no.

$500 refundable down payment. 8 weeks later and we had the car "exactly" as specified. Was it the lowest price? Maybe not - it was acceptable to us. Was it exactly what my wife wanted - yes.

Try talking to your dealer (or maybe another dealer). You might be surprised what you can negotiate.

I will say that there are dealers that I will buy cars from but NEVER go to for service. I am far more particular on who services our vehicles.

You realize the XLE already comes with a trunk light, right? You say you placed an order. I assume the dealer had already been allocated a vehicle that meets your needs. Toyota dealers do not order vehicles from the factory any longer. They are allocated vehicles by their distributor. in the past, before production supply limits and low inventory, dealers used to be able to trade stock vehicles to meet a customer's needs/ That uis no longer the case/

For me, i wanted the gray interior but settled for black because that is what was available. I had the windows tinted to reduce heat buildup.

 

That same LED trunk light is available on Amazon for $6.00 These "little" port added items like the light, bumper applique (easily the most worthless money I've spent in a long time) and my all time favorite, $10 worth of USB cables for $75.00.

 

That same LED trunk light is available on Amazon for $6.00

Hi Tom,

Do you have a link for that? Is it easy to change yourself?

Thanks,
- karen

 

I got an offer from a dealership for 7% off MSRP... Not great, but a fair deal I think for a popular car.

It's not my preferred exterior color and I suspect it is not a color in high demand, but one I can live with (Celestial Sliver Metallic - similar to what my 2003 camry is - they called that Lunar Mist IIRC)

If this goes through I am thinking of having the front side windows replaced with laminated acoustic glass ones for the XLE, if t is not prohibitively expensive... I saw a post on reddit from someone who did that and they said it cost them only about 1K and made a significant difference at highway speed for wind noise.

- Karen

 

Looks like the deal is going to go through if they are telling the truth. The car has not been built yet. I need to put down a $1000 non refundable deposit tomorrow. For that they will list the car as sold and not offer it to anyone else.

I'm attaching the details of the car. They are selling it to me for $31,147 without taxes and fees and OTD $33,860.88.
As I said not a great deal, but for a lower trim of a car that is selling this quickly I think a fair one.

The port installed options are not too onerous... I want the all weather floor mats, and while the mudguards and
door edge guards I can do without, they do serve a somewhat useful function. The only thing I think is a total waste is the Rear Bumper Applique...

At least it did not include the USB cables!

- karen

 

Looks like the deal is going to go through if they are telling the truth. The car has not been built yet. I need to put down a $1000 non refundable deposit tomorrow. For that they will list the car as sold and not offer it to anyone else.

I'm attaching the details of the car. They are selling it to me for $31,147 without taxes and fees and OTD $33,860.88.
As I said not a great deal, but for a lower trim of a car that is selling this quickly I think a fair one.

The port installed options are not too onerous... I want the all weather floor mats, and while the mudguards and
door edge guards I can do without, they do serve a somewhat useful function. The only thing I think is a total waste is the Rear Bumper Applique...

At least it did not include the USB cables!

- karen
View attachment 469334

Congrats!

i know you have been searching for a while.

 

Congrats Karen! Looking forward to reading your initial review of the car. I hope it meets your expectations.

 

Congrats on your purchase. Thanks for taking us along and sharing details with us. I am happy for you and will be looking forward to seeing pictures of your car. I never get tired of seeing people get their new cars, even if I have seen that same car way too many times on the forum.

I honestly pray that these people are going to be true to you and fully honor this deal. I hope they do not try to change anything about your deal. I will tell you now that if you post about them trying to change anything on this deal, I will tell you now that I already knew they were going to do that. I just do not trust any dealership until you take full possession of your vehicle.

Your MSPR is $33,408
Your OTD is $33,860.88

From my personal experience in buying cars, you got a good deal. A good deal to me is an OTD price that is the same or lower than the MSRP of the car. The lower your OTD is from the MSRP, the better your deal.

Based on your MSRP, a bad deal on this car would be an OTD as from $34,408 and up. The higher the OTD, the worse the deal is.

You got a good deal. I can't wait to see your car. I think I will send Toyota an email to put a rush on the manufacture and delivery of that particular Camry LE!

Give me a minute let me go and do that right now... DONE!

 

A good deal to me is an OTD price that is the same or lower than the MSRP of the car.

The one thing about the as rule of thumb is that State Taxes on a car can very significantly by state, never mind dealer Doc fees!

In Mass (my state) the sales tax is 6.25%, New Hampshire does not have a sales tax, in Maine it's 5.5%, and in Rhode Island it's 7%.

BTW I also have to pay an excise tax based on the list price of the car - not the purchase price, and the model year.

- Karen

 

Congrats on the deal! I think it's an outstanding deal on a LE car, especially since it's coming without the coveted and much sought after USB cables

 

$1,000 non refundable deposit?
That would concern me. Is that standard practice?

Good luck. Hope it works out for you.

 

That is standard practice so you do not change your mind later & they lose another possible sale of the vehicle.

My agreement was it would be non-refundable unless they "accidentally" sold the vehicle to someone else. Because of that, although they had my credit card info for the deposit, they never charged it. There was also a stipulation that i needed to pick up the car within 24 hours of dealer delivery or they could sell it to someone else. I ended up picking it up a bit outside that window but it still had my Sold tag on the mirror.

 

So far it looks like the deal is happening... but related things are getting complicated...

I made the deal without considering trade-in...

But trading in is most convenient way to deal with teh existing... Drive there with the old and leave with the new - never without a car...

But they don't really want my 2003 Camry LE and so they would only give me $100... and they said it would be best to sell it privately... (though I have no idea how to safely go about that!)

So I went to look for my title as I need it to sell it...

I finished paying that car off in january of 2006 , and while I probably received the title back in 2006 I don't remember actually seeing it and and can't find it ... (did find the original purchase agreement and the paperwork signing for the loan with Toyota Motor Credit)...

I then went to the Mass Registry of Motor vehicles website to request a duplicate title.... Low and behold they still had a lien on it from Toyota Motor Credit so I could not order one...

So I tried to call Toyota .. But Toyota Motor Credit no longer exists... it's now Toyota Financial and the automated system can't find me in their records by my SS# and I can't get ahold of a real person!

Not sure what to do now! <grr>

- Karen

 

Try talking to a live human at Toyota Financial 1-800-874-8822

If your lucky you’ll get to speak with someone that speaks decent English.

 

That WAS the number I called... I could not find a way out of the automated system to talk to a person!

- Karen

 

Karen,
Just because something is not in the contract doesn't mean they won't do it as a courtesy to a customer. However, I find that most sales people know less about the car than I do. They can pair a phone and a couple other quick things but that is often the extent of their knowledge.

 

Have you pulled your full credit report from the three major bureaus? An auto loan from 18 years ago is almost certainly not on there, but it costs nothing to try. annualcreditreport.com

 

no need to pay. They are available periodically for free from all 3 major bureaus,.

Learn about your credit report and how to get a copy | USAGov

Find the official place to get a free credit report. See what information is in a credit report and how lenders and other organizations may use them.

www.usa.gov

Annual Credit Report.com - Home Page

ACR Home Page

www.annualcreditreport.com

 

@Karen001 One further caution. Give Toyota and your dealer as little information as possible. Toyota will email you to death, calling some promo emails as transactional. I just got a "transactional" email wanting me to enroll in a text message service for information on my Camry. GRRR