My daughter called me from the side of the highway from her 2010 RAV4. Without warning a number of warning lights came on and the speedometer started bouncing around. See attached image (ABS, 4WD, ESC, Brake, Steering). I know there are Toyota interconnections between some of these, but I have never heard of the speedo being involved. I threw my Blue Drive OBD on the car when she got to me. The codes connect to the lights (I assume the Yaw sensor code is connected to the steering light). The car ran fine before, during, and after the event. The event has not been replicated in the days after the event. Any help pointing me in the correct direction for an explanation/possible fix would be greatly appreciated.
sstone
Warning Lights & Speedometer Gone Haywire
My daughter called me from the side of the highway from her 2010 RAV4. Without warning a number of warning lights came on and the speedometer started bouncing around. See attached image (ABS, 4WD, ESC, Brake, Steering). I know there are Toyota interconnections between some of these, but I have never heard of the speedo being involved. I threw my Blue Drive OBD on the car when she got to me. The codes connect to the lights (I assume the Yaw sensor code is connected to the steering light). The car ran fine before, during, and after the event. The event has not been replicated in the days after the event. Any help pointing me in the correct direction for an explanation/possible fix would be greatly appreciated.
Attachments
My guess would be the speedometer drive is faulty. Basically it replaces the speedometer cable used on older vehicles.
It is gear driven revolution counter that sends a signal to the speedometer. If that information source is not working as it should, then the other systems can not function properly.
The part I am describing looks like the older speedometer cable drive and mounts in the ring and pinion area of the transaxle. It has an electrical connection that replaces the old fashioned cable drive to the instrument cluster. That component basically "counts" the revolutions of the drive axles and this is converted to an electrical speed reading signal that informs relevant systems of vehicle speed.
You can probably test this "theory" of your speedo misreading actual speed. By testing the output of the sensor mentioned, or swap a known good one to your car to see if it corrects all the problems.
It is gear driven revolution counter that sends a signal to the speedometer. If that information source is not working as it should, then the other systems can not function properly.
The part I am describing looks like the older speedometer cable drive and mounts in the ring and pinion area of the transaxle. It has an electrical connection that replaces the old fashioned cable drive to the instrument cluster. That component basically "counts" the revolutions of the drive axles and this is converted to an electrical speed reading signal that informs relevant systems of vehicle speed.
You can probably test this "theory" of your speedo misreading actual speed. By testing the output of the sensor mentioned, or swap a known good one to your car to see if it corrects all the problems.
When the alternator started dying on my 09 Corolla the instrument panel and warning lights went crazy.
I think you can see the codes in the photo supplied. My diagnosis is based on the information provided and the fact that all of the codes showing are related to the systems that rely on an accurate speed reading, compared to the wheel sensors readings used in traction control and antilock brake systems.
I would pursue the "whacky" speedometer function as the source of the chain of codes. The systems failure TO ME, POINTS TO THE SOURCE OF THE SPEEDOMETER READING FAILURE.
This is an opinion that supports the need to correct the speedometer malfunction cause, which again, in my opinion, will correct the misinformation that is causing the coded malfunctions.
If it was an ABS sensor issue then the speedometer would not be malfunctioning.
It would be nice to see if I am correct, OP please let us know.
My suspect is either damage or a seal leaking fluid into the part itself causing the chain reaction of failures.
This is an opinion that supports the need to correct the speedometer malfunction cause, which again, in my opinion, will correct the misinformation that is causing the coded malfunctions.
If it was an ABS sensor issue then the speedometer would not be malfunctioning.
It would be nice to see if I am correct, OP please let us know.
My suspect is either damage or a seal leaking fluid into the part itself causing the chain reaction of failures.
The speed sensor that is in the transmission is the source of the signal that is used by the gauge to read your speed. Maybe you are talking about the same thing. In order for the components involved in the antilock brakes, traction control and maybe even more systems to work they must, compare two independent sources of rotational speed. To do so they rely on comparing the vehicles speed with the speed of each wheel individually.
ABS(sensors in each wheel) generally wants all wheels to rotate at very close to the same speed with slight differences (think going around a turn), basically ignored, but significant differences bringing on a response` by the ABS module changing brake pressure to the highest rotating wheel.
In order for these systems to work they must compare the individual speed to the actual speed of the vehicle itself.
Traction control applies braking force to the wheel that is "slipping" to keep its RPM close to the others.
The coincidence of failure as reported by your daughter, as long as it is precise, WHEN combined with the failure of the speedometer to accurately measure the vehicles speed, is the main reason why I predicted it would be the speedometer operation that has to be corrected first.
The others failures were dependent on proper speedometer operation. This is not the case with the ABS or traction control systems that would fail, without affecting the speedometer indication if they were to fail independently of the speedometer failure.
Speedo not working properly is the "instigator" of the chain reaction of failures.
Even more specifically, I think the speed sensor has a leaking seal that is causing t to fail.
This is a very specific sequence that IN MY OPINION, should be understood when diagnosis is called for in the cause of the intermittent speedometer failure.
1. No failure codes appeared until the speedo malfunctioned.
2. No speedometer failure currently means the other systems are now working.
The other systems can NOT work without KNOWING THE SPEEDOMETER READING
HOW WOULD ALL OF THOSE SYSTEMS FAIL SIMULTANEOUSLY, WITHOUT THE SPEEDOMETER FAILURE?
Any diagnosis is basically a guess, as is this one. I could be wrong. That's the reason I now want to know what is the solution, which I have predicted.
I hope that is the solution and you do not waste a lot of time and money finding out YOUR diagnostician does not have the experience to draw the same conclusion.
In any electrical pathway, there is ALWAYS a poor connection that could cause the same systems to fail.
ABS(sensors in each wheel) generally wants all wheels to rotate at very close to the same speed with slight differences (think going around a turn), basically ignored, but significant differences bringing on a response` by the ABS module changing brake pressure to the highest rotating wheel.
In order for these systems to work they must compare the individual speed to the actual speed of the vehicle itself.
Traction control applies braking force to the wheel that is "slipping" to keep its RPM close to the others.
The coincidence of failure as reported by your daughter, as long as it is precise, WHEN combined with the failure of the speedometer to accurately measure the vehicles speed, is the main reason why I predicted it would be the speedometer operation that has to be corrected first.
The others failures were dependent on proper speedometer operation. This is not the case with the ABS or traction control systems that would fail, without affecting the speedometer indication if they were to fail independently of the speedometer failure.
Speedo not working properly is the "instigator" of the chain reaction of failures.
Even more specifically, I think the speed sensor has a leaking seal that is causing t to fail.
This is a very specific sequence that IN MY OPINION, should be understood when diagnosis is called for in the cause of the intermittent speedometer failure.
1. No failure codes appeared until the speedo malfunctioned.
2. No speedometer failure currently means the other systems are now working.
The other systems can NOT work without KNOWING THE SPEEDOMETER READING
HOW WOULD ALL OF THOSE SYSTEMS FAIL SIMULTANEOUSLY, WITHOUT THE SPEEDOMETER FAILURE?
Any diagnosis is basically a guess, as is this one. I could be wrong. That's the reason I now want to know what is the solution, which I have predicted.
I hope that is the solution and you do not waste a lot of time and money finding out YOUR diagnostician does not have the experience to draw the same conclusion.
In any electrical pathway, there is ALWAYS a poor connection that could cause the same systems to fail.
And of course when you take it to any shop for repair, they will not be able to duplicate the problem. Typically the problem will wait until your are most vulnerable. like your child hours away. Reminds me of one time a father and daughter brought their car to me. She was going away to college 2.5 hours away and they wanted me to look the car over so he could feel safe. SHE HAD HELPED HIM RESTORE THE CAR, WHCIH I THOUGHTT WAS FABULOUS.
We had the car on a lift running and THE DAM WATER PUMP GAVE OUT AND IT WAS ALMOST AS BAD AS A TOILET FLUSHING, CATASTROPHIC FAILURE.
I was waiting for the accusation of some kind of sabotage by the father or the daughter.
His response brings tears to my eyes, even over 2 decades later.
"I am so glad it happened here, in your shop, versus happening on the side of I64 at night and she disappears and I never see her again".
She was drop dead gorgeous, but no where near as beautiful as her fathers reply. To my last day on this earth I will remember that statement. God bless both of them.
We had the car on a lift running and THE DAM WATER PUMP GAVE OUT AND IT WAS ALMOST AS BAD AS A TOILET FLUSHING, CATASTROPHIC FAILURE.
I was waiting for the accusation of some kind of sabotage by the father or the daughter.
His response brings tears to my eyes, even over 2 decades later.
"I am so glad it happened here, in your shop, versus happening on the side of I64 at night and she disappears and I never see her again".
She was drop dead gorgeous, but no where near as beautiful as her fathers reply. To my last day on this earth I will remember that statement. God bless both of them.
Part number is 89413-08020, I think, needs confirmation from someone here more familiar with parts.
McGeorge in Richmond Va, has it at $108?
McGeorge in Richmond Va, has it at $108?
Two things to check: 1) see if rodents may have chewed on your engine wiring. A tell tale sign will be various seed pods and poo in various nooks and crannies around the engine. They love to hang around under the plastic engine cover as well, so that's yet another reason to remove it. 2) check for clogged sunroof drains. Water building up in the sunroof wells can find its way into instrument areas and mess up a lot of things.
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