Haven't looked at many new Toyotas lately, have you?

 

I have a 2014.5 XLE and there are no LEDs installed.

 

That's too bad. My car has LEDs in the high mount brake light, rear side marker lights, and tail and brake lights.

 

One word, "COST", of the electronics to drive the LED's.

 

The odd thing with Toyota (not that I'm complaining personally) is that the Toyota has LED headlights even on the base L trim while the Camry won't get them until a very high-level trim, if at all ...

 

My 2016 XSE V6 has LED DRL and headlights. I wish it has LED taillights as well.

 

Same here ... odd that my six gen SE had LEDs in the back.

I'm not a big fan of external lighting because however the vehicle is configured will work for me, but I almost have to put my shades on when I'm behind a new Charger at night!:wtf:

 

I like the LED taillight on the new Accord

 

Old technology has many advantages. #1 - it's paid for. #2 - in Toyota's case, it's pretty damn reliable and brings repeat customers #3 - some improvements will raise MSRP sending customers elsewhere, but they might also attract or retain current customers willing to pay more.


#3 is my biggest gripe. I waited for 4 years for Toyota to do something better with their Camry or Avalon. When everything pretty much remained the same, I purchased a Fusion as it was easier to package the way I wanted it.


#3 - negative for Toyota is package & option selection. With a Fusion I can get the more powerful engines, leather, sunroof, larger wheels, cold weather package, better color choices, AWD, hybrid availability, NAV, rear inflatable seatbelts, and better pricing, which was my number one reason for buying a Fusion. I ended up with the 2.0 240hp SE FWD w/NAV, Tech package, and Appearance package for $22.5K before TTL. My 2016 also has LED taillights that some are discussing. My favorite feature on my Fusion is SXM radio.

 

negative for Toyota is package & option selection. With a Fusion I can get the more powerful engines, leather, sunroof, larger wheels, cold weather package, better color choices, AWD, hybrid availability, NAV, rear inflatable seatbelts, and better pricing, which was my number one reason for buying a Fusion. I ended up with the 2.0 240hp SE FWD w/NAV, Tech package, and Appearance package for $22.5K before TTL. My 2016 also has LED taillights that some are discussing. My favorite feature on my Fusion is SXM radio.

No matter what, your car is Ford Fusion. There is no way I am touching a Ford or GM again. If you really want more power without a turbo, you can still buy V-6 Camry. Your Fusion seems to offer a lot of features but i just want impeccable reliability and certain must have safety features: backup camera, Bluetooth and a lot air bags. I could care less about LED, HID, SXM

 

Excuse me but look at the new models from Lexus. Headlights are LEDs and not HIDs or halogen.

Even Corollas have LED headlights.

Lots of LEDs.

 

Yep.
Many new features are simply waiting for a model refresh/facelift or a complete redesign.
LED and HID headlights work great with projectors, but not so much with reflector housings. Mercedes and Porsche have (or had) some HID reflector-type systems... if that gives you an idea of the cost of the R&D.

Now, in the case of the Camry where you can get LED on the higher trim levels but not base models? Back to cost. A halogen lamp is a LOT cheaper than an LED driver and emitter.

Toyota is trying to keep the entry level cost of its vehicles in a reasonable range. They don't want to push a potential Camry buyer into a Corolla or Scion if he is willing to accept the de-features of the base model.

 

Some of the newer cars look like Christmas trees driving down the street, I'm glad mine doesn't.

 

Which cars? or do you mean their dashboard lights? :grin:

 

Dodge Charger maybe?

 

The Ford Fusion will push Toyota to up it's game. Just like Toyota forced Ford to ups it's game. By the way I don't think that there is much difference in reliability between Ford and Toyota.

 

I'm new to Toyota so I'll reserve my comments on Toyota quality.

However, I've been driving the big 3 since the 60's and unless my Toyota blows up I'm not looking back.

Opinion subject to change of course.

 

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/alexanderp140740.html

There are numerous LEDs in my house. Some have not been durable. I see several cars on the road with LED front running lights that are not working on one side or the other.
Reliabilty needs to be improved, and no doubt will be. Good LED headlights, considering all the aspects, are very difficult to design and build.

 

Fairly easy to add SXM to a Camry or any car if you don't mind an aftermarket radio. This issue with Camry is that I think Toyota is showing TPMS on the radio screen now, so you would lose that - but Ford is integrating other features into the radio - probably as bad or worse than Toyota.

There are two other issues - reliability is one, but maintainability is the other.

I've owned Fords, so I can't say how Toyota reliability compares, but I suspect it is better.

There are forum members saying they put 200K miles on their car with no repairs other than oil changes - I don't hear that much from Ford - then again - I mostly hear it about 1990's Camrys and not 2016 Camrys.

But I can look under the hood of a Corolla and my son's Focus:

Corolla - okay, here's the alternator, there's the radiator and the hoses, the belts go here, ...

Focus - Okay, your alternator is buried under there, the radiator is under this cowl and here's the return hose and it goes over here and connects to the radiator ... somewhere. Here's your belts and the A/C is a stretch belt that needs a special tool to take on and off and has to be replaced if you ever remove it, and then I think you can pull the motor mount and get the serpentine belt off.

Bottom line - most import cars are easier to wrench on than domestic cars these days ...

 

Can confirm. Domestic cars are a nightmare to do even the simplest things these days.

 

there are more things in a car than just headlights, you know...

 

I don't care if manufacturer using old or new technology and always look at what I'm getting for my money. Almost all modern LED headlights on the market sucks big time and factory Toyota/Lexus HID are nothing special IMO. When I was buying my car I knew that sooner or later I'll have a good HID retrofit that will be customized to my taste and I still see no reason to pay for enormously overpriced and very ineffective stock HID or LED option.

 

Mid life dude chiming in like an old dude. Ranting in 3...2...1...
Modern cars are great. They have touch screen this, automatic that, sensors, sensors, sensors sensors sensors sensors. It's all very pretty when it works. When it works. Read it again. When it works.

When electric stuff doesn't work it is a nightmare. Important stuff gets disabled because a sensor isn't working or the sensor for the main sensor cannot get an accurate reading so both sensors could be malfunctioning which in turn costs an arm and a leg to replace; at the dealer only because they happen to have the only machine that can read their diagnostics and they hold the only sensors that will work. You hope that your vehicle is still under warranty but somehow these electrical parts are not covered; you're lucky if they are. This is if you can track down what the electrical issue is and if you've never had to follow an electrical drawing then I suggest you never start. Old layouts can be a nightmare already. Modern layouts are a maze or similar to staring at the Matrix; dumbfounded and wondering why the hell there are so many electrical nannies for an automobile. Then you actually have to find the part(s) on the car and then test them. Usually in some contorted position fitting a Circus Soleil performer while holding a flashlight, multiple aligator teeth or probes and a multimeter. Then it's off to the next electrical relay/sensor/switch/ecu/etc.

So when a new car has LED lights slathered all over it I can't deny that it looks pretty and works well. But ugh when a few LEDs blow or ugh when you get a Check Engine Light because one of your sensors decided to take a dump. So going back you may look back at lights and say 'hey I remember when my lights didn't work and I just bought a new bulb.' How many BMWs from the mid 2000's still have their Angel Eyes? How many Audis have ALL working LED lights on the front or rear lights? Then again how many of those are still on the road?

Sure I'm generalizing a bit about HID lights and what not but it's not far off. Eventually your local auto mechanic will not be able to fix your car. For the weekend mechanic it will make an already $$$ hobby even more $$$$$$. I am having more and more issues fixing modern cars. Not so much mechanical issues but more and more electrical issues. Soon the OBDII and app readers will not work due to proprietary licensing and if you want to fix stuff you're going to have to buy the hardware and monthly software fees. Have you seen what the most complaints are for vehicles nowadays? It's not 'my brakes don't work' but 'my NAV screen isn't working, I don't like this touch screen, why can't I have 3 monitors in the back, I need 4 way camera systems, I need a seat belt sensor to check if my seat belt is on, I need night vision windshield display.' Modern automobiles are VERY reliable mechanically. Electronically though they are headaches. This is across the spectrum from luxury to bare bones vehicles.

As for the US or other domestic market I have got to hand it to Ford. I'm a Toyota guy at heart but Ford has a stellar lineup and for the most part are fairly reliable vs. the other Big 2. They have pretty much all areas covered and enthusiasts lineups (Raptor, Focus RS, the very tempting GT350) as well. I really wish Toyota would do that.
/end rant
Uhm yeah if you'd like LED lights I suppose there are options for it.

 

Simple...COST. It's cheaper for them and the consumer. ever priced out oem leds? they're super expensive and all of them that i know about requires replacing the entire lamp. if i want leds i'll install them.

 

I think it's been covered fairly well at this point, but relying on tried and true technology keeps costs down and increases reliability. Sure, many of us want the latest and greatest, but when it comes to my daily driven car reliability is generally my number one concern. One way to ruin a day is walking out to your car to find something isn't working. The Camry is a conservative vehicle anyway so I don't expect it to be cutting edge.

Personally, my 2012 is such an enormous step up from the 4th gen Camry I had before I have little reason to complain. The headlights are miles better, much more powerful 4 cylinder, better mileage, better suspension, remote entry, much better stock radio, safer, etc. Relying on older technology isn't a recent trend either. That 4th gen Camry had a cassette player. I had switched over to CDs years before that car was even manufactured.

 

Kemo sabe - The new LEDs look great, but if you can't replace just one bulb (except headlight). If one burns out, you have to replace the whole assembly. Not cheap. Not sure if this answers your question, but ease of replacement might be one of the reasons you don't see LEDs across the board on Toyota's like you'd expect.
I'd rather replace a $3 tail/stop light bulb than a LED array any day.
Ray A.

 

If you buy a Toyota that is equipped with more electronics (lane sensor warning, back up camera, navigation, LED lights, etc.), perhaps you SHOULD consider getting the extended warranty if you know you're keeping the car for way past the 3/36.

 

Reliablity.

 

Do you want steak or sizzle? The Camry is extremely reliable especially for how inexpensive it is. Look at the reliability records in Consumers magazine. Compare it to Ford. Last week I needed to put $1000 into my 29500 mile old V10 Ford. Fuel pump. $500 pump and $500 to drop the 55 gallon tank. Repairs on the 72000 mile old Camry so far...zero.

Yep.

2004 Rav4, 150k, one alternator at about 130k, water pump had some crusties but wasn't throwing coolant and the level was staying solid. Couple of brake jobs, and an O2 sensor under warranty.

2008 Tacoma with 160k, DIY water pump at 120k, couple of brake jobs.

 

Bottom line - most import cars are easier to wrench on than domestic cars these days ...

One thing I love about my little Cruze (the engine's so tiny it's amazing to work on), and one thing I'm beginning to not like about cars I'm looking at with V6's/bigger turbo-4's stuffed under the hood! My brother-in-laws 2.0T Fusion looks pretty annoying to replace things on.

V6 Toyotas are a pain to work on though. Just changed the O2 sensor and plugs in the Highlander for the first CEL in 85k miles. Thanks for the 3" of room to get a wrench in there...but at least this one doesn't have a timing belt like the old 1MZ/3MZ motors.

 

Good old tech isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's a good thing. Expensive new tech that isn't battle tested can be a very bad thing in some cases.

 

Speaking of old technology though, it's time to put an updated engine in the Corolla already. Something that recognizes that torque and NVH are things that people care about.

 

It's been a reliable engine for quite some time. At some point it'll be updated like what Honda recently has done to all of their engines.

 

Also odd that a basic L Corolla with stick shift still gets the LED's, but a more expensive top-grade Yaris or mid-grade Camry does not.

 

another example is the Sentra have (cheap looking)led tails and drl's but has halogen headlights, not even projectors

 

LED lights versus motor updates. It's because sizzle e sells. You see LED lights you don't see changes to the powerplant. I'm trying to remember the steakhouse that had you walk past the grill as you were being seated. You would see, hear, and smell meat.