I am not a mechanic so I am wondering what kind of emergency situation might arise where an immediate oil change might be necessary. Also, if that is possible, can an emergency filter change really be necessary also? Seems that whereeverI travelthere are always TOyota dealers? Anyhow, just curious. Thanks

 

Yeah really....I have had dealers in several states 2000 miles from home do my oil service. Your Toyota care is good at any Toyota dealership nationwide.

 

Is there at technical reason to change 0W20 synthetic oil at 5,000 mile intervals rather than the Toyota recommended 10,000 mile interval, or is it just a personal thing?

 

Historically, especially during the past 15 years, there have been engineering weaknesses in some Toyota engines that have lead to mechanical failures, premature mechanical wear or problems like heavy oil consumption or sludge buildup that owners have been able to fully or partially mitigate via following the "old fashioned" 3,000 oil change rule with conventional oil or 5,000 miles with synthetic. So changing at 5,000 miles with synthetic offers some peace of mind against a future $5,000+ engine repair bill if you plan to keep your Avalon for 10+ years /100,000+ miles.

Changing oil more frequently also help keep the engine and emission system cleaner so that the concentration of hydrocarbons entering the catalytic converter is lower which helps extend converter life which in turn helps prevent the owner from having to deal with a $2,000 repair bill to fix a check engine light for "catalyst efficiency below threshold" sometime between the 100,000 - 200,000 mile mark.

Modern Toyotas are built to be disposable rather than 40 year/400,000 mile vehicles like they were in decades past and the 10,000 mile oil change rule is a symptom of that planned obsolesence mentailty that now grips even the Asian car makers as well as the domestics. One way the owner can fight back is to change lubricants more frequently including lubricants like transmission fluid which is now very difficult because Toyota has made changing the tranny fluid and determing the correct fluid level very difficult for owners to attempt. This taking their loyal owners for granted attitude has self defeating consequences http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=TM&t=6m&l=on&z=l&q=l&c=

 

To the responses to my original post, I only posed my approach to the oil change interval of 10K. I realize I can use Toyota Care at any Toyota dealer, and should an emergency need arise I would rather be ready for the possibility. There are numerous posts where members have had a problem with a Toyota dealer service, even unsatisfactory service on the simplicity of changing oil.
I may be 'old school.' but changing oil is a minor cost even using a 7.5K interval using syn. We have a 2012 Taco Sport LB 4WD with only 10K mileage and have had 4 oil changes with Toyota Care, but using dino oil at the dealership at 6 month intervals. I am due to change oil in the Taco and will use syn. Our 2008 Solara SLE has 11+K mileage, I change 1 time a year with syn, Mobil 1 Extended.
Each person will care for his/her vehicle in the manner which best suits his/her idea of good maintenance. if I choose to be more cautious, grant me that privilege. And, again for emergencies I have the Toyota Care, AAA, and my oil and filter.

 

I've never used synthetic oil before and you would think since it's some special man made liquid and not Dino it would last longer and have a longer lubricating life.

My 5,000 mile maintenance will be due soon. I wasn't too sure about taking the car in for that, but I wonder if Toyota will change the oil under the Toyota Care plan if I ask them, realizing I only get 3 of them to begin with.

 

ntorch,
If you are driving a 2013 xle Avalon ( I assume your is not hybrid and I drive the hybrid), I believe your vehicle still will use only syn oil, no dino oil, and is still on a 10K oil change interval under Toyota Care and under Toyota Care there are only 2 oil changes on a 10K interval, I'm not sure check your maintenance schedule. I also have not seen 0-20 oil in dino, but, I would recommend the syn oil, I only used syn oil in our Lexus 350's. My experience/history with dino vs syn oils is syn oil does gives a minor increase in MPG.

 

ntorch,
If you are driving a 2013 xle Avalon ( I assume your is not hybrid and I drive the hybrid), I believe your vehicle still will use only syn oil, no dino oil, and is still on a 10K oil change interval under Toyota Care and under Toyota Care there are only 2 oil changes on a 10K interval, I'm not sure check your maintenance schedule. I also have not seen 0-20 oil in dino, but, I would recommend the syn oil, I only used syn oil in our Lexus 350's. My experience/history with dino vs syn oils is syn oil does gives a minor increase in MPG.

Actually 0w-20 can only be a synthetic oil, this is why it's a synthetic oil.
Synthetic oil can take the heat and flow much faster to critical parts. This is especially critical on hybrid models as the engine starts and stops many times.

 

V6, I know it has syn currently in it. I think Toyota care is 30K, meaning 3 oil changes, but I'll check. I was wondering if I ask Toyota to do the oil change intervals at 5,000 miles, so in effect if I get 3 of them I'll be finished with the freebees at 15k, not 30k. Would they do that?

 

ntorch,
From my understanding, Toyota Care is limited to 25K miles or 24 months for all vehicles, except for the Prius plug-in which is 36 months. Your dealer may work with you, but all dependent on how the service dept. views customer relations. I would still take your Avalon in for a 5K under Toyota Care for tire rotation and fluid checks, etc. My dealer service offered a fifth free oil change on our '12 Taco within the 24 month period. Remember, syn oil is more expensive and the oil filter is a canister filter not a screw on filter.

 

Toyota's included service includes two full service visits, which includes synthetic oil changes, tire rotations, etc. In addition, three mini services are included, which are just tire rotations, etc. These must be used in the first 25,000 miles or so.

I've been using synthetic oil for decades, and there are many proven benefits. Synthetic doesn't "break down" quite like dino oil does, it gets dirty/contaminated before it wears out. Some prior Toyota V6s were prone to sludge with dino oil, problem solved if you switched to synthetic (early enough). Mobil 1 has been my syn of choice for about 30 years.

If you're interested in learning a bunch about oil, check out this website and it's forums: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

FYI: I took our Highlander to the nearby dealer for an oil change last weekend, and they were offering 3 synthtic full service oil changes (with tire rotation) for $150. That's less than half the usual syn oil change. So I got the package for each car.

 

Convert, back to your question. I will do the same as you on oil changes. I have a 2013 Touring Hybrid. I changed my oil at 5,000. I used the same filter wrench as I did for my 2007 Avalon which had the aluminum filter housing. I found it slipped when trying to remove the housing. I purchased a new wrench on EBay but haven't tried it yet as I'm just at 8,000 miles and the next change will be at the dealer. There is a thread about the wrenches on this site.

 

Thought I'd bump this thread to the top...

New to Toyota 4 cylinders, after 33 years exclusively VW/Audi 4 and 5cyl, 2.0 diesels, couple of Honda Odysseys, 2005 Tundra 4.6V8.

ALWAYS 10k mile OCI, with Mobil1 full synthetic. VW/Audis sometimes went 15k miles, every one 160-190k miles before selling/trading. NEVER an oil related problem, oil consumption <.5 quart between oil changes. VW/Audis all required camshaft cover gaskets at various points, inside totally pristine, zero wear on cams, no oil buildup of any kind.

I understand the oil-related history of issues with Camry hybrid engines, and the advise to drop to 5-7.5 miles OCI.

Want to do the right thing for my 2014 TAH. Anyone know of any documented oil-related issues with the newer 2.5 4cyl hybrid engines? I know that in the grand scheme of cost, oil changes are cheap. I also don't want to waste resources if it just isn't necessary.

Thanks in advance!

 

My service guy says 17500 for the oil changes and I have always changed at 4-5000 in the older cars and never had a problem I'm leery of anything more than-7500. Even with full syn which Toyota recommends for the hybrid Avalon is safety for $100?
I decided to change at 7500-10000. The service guy says the longer miles is supported by warranty, so it's up to you.

 

My service guy says 17500 for the oil changes

Is that a typo, and you meant 7500, or did he really say 17,500? That would be higher than any recommendation I've ever seen, even for synthetic oil.

Robert N.

 

12500 revised mumber.

I don't type

 

For the 3.5 i would do 5k changes with 5w-20 plus 50-60k transaxle oil changes.

Synthetic can last longer but 0w-20 is fairly light oil that can cook and shear easier.

 

For the 3.5 i would do 5k changes with 5w-20 plus 50-60k transaxle oil changes.

Synthetic can last longer but 0w-20 is fairly light oil that can cook and shear easier.

Do you have info that can justify this claim? AFAIK, the synthetic oils of all viscosities are not prone to cooking and shearing, but I'm open to being corrected.

...just curious...

 

well i decided that since i have my own shop i'm not worried about the tire rotation since i'm running 2 different sets of rims and tires,with that said i'm changing my first oil change at 5,000 miles,then take it back to them for the 10k service i don't travel enough to justify leaving my oil alone for 10k i seen people go that far on oil,it gets to black for my liking,i'm going to use mobil 1 0w20 and a toyota filter and probably the better wix filter once the warranty is done

 

I too will change my oil at 5,000 miles or 1 year which ever occurs first. Avalon is used just for the weekend trips.

 

Everyone seems to FORGET that back in the 80s and 90s the oil-change interval using regular non-synth oil was 7,500 miles on nearly every Japanese car operating under 'severe conditions', including the legendary Toyota Camry, Celica, mr2, etc.. they're still on the road today and 400k miles is common...

my point is that 10k using synth oil on a modern engine is BEYOND CONSERVATIVE and perfectly fine... 7,500 mile oil changes have been around using regular oil for over 35 years... MY OWN theory is that the 'recent' Toyota 'sluge' problems are from users neglecting the PCV system... but that's just a theory..



.

 

I change oil on my Civic every 7,500 miles. Cheap insurance. Car has over 316,000 miles and still gets 41mpg. My first oil change will get done at 5,000 miles or 1 year on the Avalon. After that, once a year because I will not go 8,000 miles. My GM car also gets the oil changed every October. Just habit....and good luck is my biggest reason. And like I said, cheap insurance. (I remember when Mobil 1 first came out. They advertised 25,000 mile oil changes. Revised that when they realized the oil filters would not last that long).

 

Modern engines aren't inherently industructable. Look at the Jaguar 5.0L those things have horrible timing issues. Look at the Direct injection engines from audi, those things need to be cleaned or they lose 30% of their horsepower. In fact i would say it is more important to do regular oli changes on direct injection engines with higher compression.

If it is difficult, you switch cars often, or you have a hybrid I am sure 10k mile oci is fine. If not it is cheap and easy protection for a fairly big purchase that you want to be reliable.

 

Blackness: I'm with you on this. It's hard to change "tradition", and the many apocryphal stories about oil-related issues.

I've been on a 10k mile OCI since the mid-70s, with Mobil1 full synthetic. Ford 302ciV8 (sold at 195k miles, used .5/qt per 10k miles), VW/Audis sometimes went 15k miles, every one 160-190k miles before selling/trading. NEVER an oil related problem, oil consumption <.5 quart between oil changes. VW/Audis all required camshaft cover gaskets at various points, inside totally pristine, zero wear on cams, no oil buildup of any kind.

I'm fully aware that VW/Audi engines are vastly different than Toyota I4s, but engine/oil evolution is REAL, whether or not you believe in Creation!!!:wink::grin:

 

I think your story/experience should be cited and noted as proof of 7.5k mile oil changes on regular non-synth oil as being JUST FINE...

I will also add that the 7.5k interval back in the 80's/90's was a CONSERVATIVE figure created by a team of no less that 100 automotive engineers..

3000k oil changes are silly... it seems like the number has been 7500 mile intervals since the 1980's, yet the mentality of the masses stays at 3,000 miles...

alas, the 'arguement' will ensue forever... 3,000 intervals might just be "American culture" by now... and therefore impossible to alter...:surprise:



.

 

You believe in logic? So if I point out one valid challenge to your argument the whole argument is false.

Of course your presmises could be false in a validly logical argument but that is a different matter.

Here is why you are wrong. You are equating progress with enhanced durability and reliability. Those are not as important as power and economy in todays world.

Interference engines are by design less reliable the whole engine can get destroyed over a slip in timing or timing failure.

The whole engine breaks whereas before you would tow the car to get it retimed.

Therefore progress does not equate progress in durability when strict economy measures are in place.

 

I see your point, assuming you're completely ignoring 100+ years of steady progress in ICE engine/oil design, reliability and lifespan. I agree that, due to bean-counter engineered "planned obsolescence" that longevity, in some cases, but not all, has been compromise.

We're all looking for balance. In another thread, someone pointed out Mobil1 synthetic earliest ads pushed 25k OCI. I had an uncle that put over 400k on a big-block Ford (Crown Vic), virtually all highway, OCI of 30k miles, never an issue.

YMMV!!!!!

 

Plenty of sludged engines from the 80's, 90's..... Toyota's own 2.2/3.0 is proof of that. So, some had the oil fail before the 7500 mile oil change. Sad to say but all those 3k/3mo Jippylubed owners that I knew never had the sludge with various makes/models where it was common. I guess their profit margin unknowingly or unwittingly helped out many owners, until the environmentalist extremists started dictating oil change intervals.

Oil change interval have always been all about marketing and not technical or even for engine longevity. Algorithmic based oil life monitors is an owners' best bet. Problem is, not all brands are smart enough to develop one.

Driving style and engines' misengineering have much to do with an oils life. Currently, only things that I see plenty of are chain/vvt/ocv/tensioner failures caused by inadequate oil performance(whether its level, interval, grade, or type is irrelevant). But, API AN/GF6 will require finally address chain/tensioner wear, which I've seen as an issue that has been occurring with various engines since the 1990's. The ol' lifetime chain is no better than a timing belt.

I don't care when you do/don't change your oil, or whether you use fancy oil or discount oil. Plenty of forum threads here concerning noises, consumption, poor MPG, power loss, bad idle, shakes...... that seem to always lead back to the life of maintenance. Do what you want. Many cheapo's will be back in a few years concerning their problems caused by lack of maintenance.

My Avalon MSRP'd at $40k and I expect my 6 year old nephew to take the keys in a decade. So, I will use an overly thick 5w30 synthetic oil with an excessively short <7.5k interval, along with a gallon ATF pump out every couple years. It will make it thru the youngsters college years no problem without so-called common problems.

Good luck with what you choose to do or not do!

 

i personally know that these oils are better than the past,most average people drive 5 to 10 miles to work and back home,these type of drivers should change the oil more often,the person driving 100 miles a day can go longer,gas engines burn dirty it needs enough time to burn the contaminates out of the oil,these engines are very refined and i feel need good clean oil.i just spent a lot of money on my new car i think 30$ every 5k isn't going to make me change my mind about my service intervals.i guess if its something you want to keep 10 to 20 years change you oil more often if you lease or buy every 3 years change it less

 

Question: If 5K to 10K mile oci is OK w/ modern oils, why do drag racers change oil after every run? They use the same oil we do.
Answer: They are protecting their $50K to $100K engines.
The engine in my Avalon, or even my Elky, isn't valued at $50K, but I want to protect it and my total vehicle investment. So I'll continue to change my engine oil between 3500 & 4000 miles and sleep better at night.
BTW, I wrench on a drag car and see the oil after 6 or 8 runs. We haven't done any high dollar tests on the oil, but after 8 passes, it looks crappy.
Just my opinion. (And I also know that oil and filter brands and oci is 'almost' a religious thing.) So don't get upset when I express my opinion.

 

Sorry, but drag racing engines do NOT use the same oil we do. Even Nascar racing teams don't. I know a mechanic who's job it was to pour out the oil in the very-well-recognized oil containers, and replace it with the oil they actually used. These engines do not have the same engineering requirements of passenger car engines. THey don't have to buffer acids, they don't have to address cold starts, they don't have to resist oxidation for long periods of time.

It's the 21st century, and unless your engine has a design problem (and there were some sludge-producing Toyota engines in the past), you are not prolonging the life of your engine by changing it every 3500-4000 miles, just because you "feel that's better". Actually, if you aren't having serial oil analysis done, you are just guessing. BUT, after looking at hundreds of oil analysis results of these engines, you'd be hard pressed to show any that need to be replaced more often than the owner's manual states...which is 5000 to 10000 miles, depending upon your use.

You are right, you haven't done any oil testing. IF you had, you'd realize what an oil "looks like" has nothing to do with it's ability to lubricate sufficiently. You should also realize drag racing blow-by isn't anything like passenger car use to the oil.

It's also apparently against "common sense" to realize that oil filters get MORE efficient as they are used. So, changing oil filters before they are scheduled to be changed is not only a waste of time and effort, the insoluables count will be higher per mile in the engine that has it's oil filter changed too often. This is just basic oil analysis science. It's not delving into TAN, TBN, Flash point, and a double-digit number of wear metals and beneficial ingredients.

 

I think we can all agree that we've moved very, very far away from a discussion of OCI for gently tuned, OEM Toyota passenger car engines. Drag-race motors, outboards, lawnmower engines...all ICEs, of course, but vastly different.

Someone has stated that the Hybrid ICE 2.5l is probably less (oil) stressed than the V6. I'm just not so sure. The engine is constantly cycling on and off, peak operating oil temp probably is all over the place (within ECU controlled parameters, of course!). Short trips are probably even WORSE than with the V6, with the varying operating temps, and the oil's ability to burn off inevitable start-up moisture.

Yes, I'm overthinking this, which is my own personal OCD. I'm still looking for concrete evidence of oil-related issues with the Gen4 2.5 ICE in the hybrid. I've started a separate thread, will see how it goes.

Great discussion here. It's always good to hear individual experiences.

 

I think we can all agree that we've moved very, very far away from a discussion of OCI for gently tuned, OEM Toyota passenger car engines. Drag-race motors, outboards, lawnmower engines...all ICEs, of course, but vastly different.

Great discussion here. It's always good to hear individual experiences.

I agree with your first statement. I cannot agree with the second....just too much uninformed opinion and not enough science for me.

 

Most people agree hybrids stress the ICE less. But they have a battery and electrical system that does get stressed. For example my old prius 10k mile oil changes Even 12k and the oil was fine. The oil was still a nice amber color after 5k miles. The engine just isn't running as much.

 

I'm going in for the oil change tomorrow.
I'll ask about the requirements and they're thinking.