Wow, interesting.. I'm going to take a look at my own little echo (also a 2000) :0

 

Hah can't even believe this post and your symptoms, identical to mine. I actually took a break from trying to fix it while being busy the last two weeks, definitely would have found this thread in my quest for answers otherwise.

Same deal though, hesitation at idle, commutes okay unless I accelerate from a ramp merging in to traffic, feels like it wants to cut out. I had changed plugs a week or two before my problems arose. Drove through serious snow storm and rain later that week, apparently had no gasket on the cyl 1 coil pack. Water droplets inside, but afraid to look in the other places you did

We'll see what new coil pack says tomorrow morning, hopefully I make it to work!

 

Wow my 04 does the same thing when wet.

Now I have somthing else to look into.

 

Not sure what you mean by "coil pack". Think you mean "coil on plug" which is individual coils over each spark plug. Big difference. Use of dielectric grease between the spark plug and coil boots is always recommended, especially useful for these situations. This will prevent misfire/short from water as the spark plug tube dries out. But why is that happening? If multiple people are having water issues, sounds like a body design issue where the grill channels rain water into the engine compartment. So what needs to happen is a better seal at the COP. When you take the coils off to add dielectric grease, clean and inspect the top of the engine, and the coil gasket. Make sure its clean. when you put the coils back on make sure they are seated correctly over the holes, and tight.

 

iv had this happen to me too after cleaning out the engine bay i got some watter in one of the spark plug holes just took some compressed air and shot it all out worked fine.

 

nice write up... Amazing what a little water can do!

I also second what has been said here already. "dielectric grease between the spark plug and coil boots"... Use it every time you change out your plugs and always inspect the gaskets on the injectors.

I guess it's really true! An ounce of prevention is worth it's weight in gold. I would imagine that maybe condensation or a little bit of water can get in there and it adds up over time.

I'm still waiting to change my plugs in my car. Even tho I bought some OEM Denso SK16R11 Iridium Spark Plugs 6 months ago in anticipation. I'll check for water and check the gaskets on the injectors. My car still run great and it's still not yet 100K miles.

As far as I'm concerned toyota echo's is one the best cars on the planet. I am super happy I bought mine esp, when I get gas and it's 4.35 a gallon. Looking at people in those big SUV's that get 13 MPG and thinking about my car getting 42PLUS is amazing. Ya know that feeling of finding money on the ground? Well, that's how I feel.

 

Echo doesn't have a plastic cover on the valve cover to keep water away?

 

Some of us take them off, myself included. It is a common issue for the cylinder 1 plug to have this because it's closer to the belts-- not from the grill. Go through enough puddles or a deep enough puddle, and the belt whips it right up like tires and their spray. Cylinder 1 is the closest.

I came in for very similar issues, but it's not the water at all. It's been dry for a very ling time, and no oil has gotten into the system (though some missed during a fill). Usually the misfire put up a CEL for me, so I'm thinking along those same lines as the OP: injector, cam position, etc. I'm going to see if there's a stored code even without the CEL, because once it's in higher revs it's fine, not even speed, just revs.

 

I have been having the same problem for the last several months off and on. Mine is an '00 with 230k miles. This is annoying not only for the obvious driveability issues, but also because I am a mild hypermiler and this problem takes my mileage down about 20%.

The first time it occurred, I did notice that it happened while I had the hood open for about 20 mins replacing the battery in a drizzle. I run an UltraGauge, so I can check and clear codes on the fly. P0300 (random misfire) was the first code. P0302 was the second code, showing a cyl 2 misfire, so I swapped coils on cylinders 1 and 2, cleared the codes, and it persisted with another P0302 (no P0300), eliminating any chance of a coil problem. It gradually cleared up but never went away until I replaced plugs...I was dubious as I had put in some NGK Iridiums at 190k. Cyl 1's plug had significant rust around its lug. OK, duly noted.

About a month later, all was still well. Until, that is, another humid/drizzly/hot/southern summer day came. It reared its ugly head with another P0300. This, however, was combined with a P0301. Hmm. The cylinder which contained the coil from the initially offensive cylinder 2. Time to take a look. Lo and behold, I pulled the coils from cylinders 1 and 2, and cyl 2 lacked the grommet from the cam cover to the coil. Time for a closer inspection. Cyl 1...wow. Moisture all over the coil boot. I shone my pen light down the spark plug the and saw more moisture all over the lower reaches of the spark plug tube. Stuck a paper towel down there and it came back wet and clear, indicating pure water. Cylinder 2 having the initial problem and no grommet and yet cyl 1 having the rusty problem is strange, no?

Since then I have run coils 1 and 2 without coil grommets banking on the engine's heat to evaporate the moisture. Mostly it worked with a couple of short bouts not requiring any intervention. That is until today.

I have a pending (not active) code for P0301, misfire on cyl 1.

My point is, drying out the plug tube takes care of the immediate cause but not the root cause. They are the closest cylinders to the belts, so the theory of them slinging moisture up holds some merit...but it doesn't jig with the fact that the problem started with the coil grommets in place.

My additional question is, would boot grease really address the issue? I did not receive the car with an upper engine cover, would this make a difference?

I am (nearly) desperate to maintain the 44+mpg pace I have been maintaining this past summer, and this has dragged me down a small but statistically significant amount over the past months.

 

My additional question is, would boot grease really address the issue? I did not receive the car with an upper engine cover, would this make a difference?

Yes. Dielectric grease pushes water away and helps maintain the electrical connection. :thumbsup:

As a Florida resident and Echo owner of 4 years, I have never had this problem. :rockon:

 

I am actually glad I am not the only one with this problem. The car is rather beat up and also lacks either the top or bottom engine covers, or the wheel well liners. Still, it has taken 2 years for this problem to crop up?

I may have to look into fabbing up a belt guard as well.

 

Same here. I've gone coverless since 2006 (around 330,000 miles) and it never had a problem until February 2012 (roughly 440,000). Even with the engine protection underneath, if the puddle is deep enough and you're not going fast enough for a good bow wave, it can hit that bottom pulley. The reason I assumed belts was there's long been a straight line of slight rust under my hood, which is of course right near cylinder #1. I'll get pics of the line in a bit.

 

I'll let you know what I come up with

And on that note I will be snagging some extra dielectric grease today on the way home to prevent this from ever occurring.

 

 

Clean!

Just wanted to do an update...pulled coil#1 off, shined my penlight down the tube, and sure enough...not only was it wet in there, but the spark plug was entirely SUBMERGED in water. I wiped down the coil boot and used some long needlenose pliers to soak up the water with paper towels. Greased the hell out of the coil boot and re-installed. While the weather is dry I am running sans coil grommet to allow the engine heat to evaporate any remaining moisture out of the spark plug tube. Car ran like showroom new after only 20 mins work.

I really need to start with a lower engine cover. Thing is, the car has had the royal crap beaten out of it over the years and I am not entirely sure I even have enough mounting points left to run the lower engine cover. Plan B is to run some coroplast down there and secure with zip ties to...whatever is handy.

 

Clean? She's actually filthy outside and underhood. Been lazy for a while. Maybe it's about time I clean under the hood.

edit:
Here's clean...

 

Cleaner than mine...mine's so beat up I don't even try to keep any semblance of cleanliness. When I inherited it from my wife, it already was missing all outside trim, no wheel covers, and had more dents, dings, and scrapes than I care to count. One wheel is so bent that it is exclusively my spare tire...took nearly 6oz of weights to balance and even then never smoothed out. The front bumper is held on by zip-ties. The carpet is NASTY and even had some mold... :headbang: Blame 7 years of Los Angeles driving for its current state. I appreciate this car for what it is, a wonderfully engineered beater car that's paid for, always starts, is cheap to insure, and uses very little fuel. After owning and stressing over show cars since I got my license in '01, it's kind of a breath of fresh air to have something I can just relax about.


Back on topic, I plan on putting the coil grommets back on in the next day or two. Hopefully my next tank won't be so dreadfully under 40mpg, a day and a half of misfiring takes a toll on fuel economy. It still bothers me that like the OP, I have taken care of the symptom and not the underlying cause.

 

Meh, believe me, I have plenty of ghetto-fabulous fixes on this thing... zip ties, a piece of wood with some screws, and a piece of chain-link tie. My shift boot was a bag that came with some jersey-cloth bed sheets I have. She could be worse, but she's got her fair share of scrapes, bumps, dents, and even a couple bits of exposed metal. Someday I'll do a video on it.

 

I should post a picture...guarantee I'll beat you in the ghetto fabulous categoy at the risk of sounding like an insensitive jerk, it looks like something you expect your local "undocumented immigrant" to drive...still mechanically sound, though, and yielding gas mileage your average Prius driver would feel a little silly about. Gotta give Toyota mad props.

 

I don't doubt it. City miles are tough as hell on a car, and I can only imagine one in L.A. driven by a woman who (I'm assuming) had no qualms with scraping or bumping it. Still, here's some of my stuff.

-See that sag under the front bumper?

That's from catching on those little parking curbs over the years, and pulling back. This is how I fixed it.

-I know that years of rocks and bugs ruin a radiator so it's not as effective (this was from my A/C).

To protect the real radiator now that the above is gone, I use window screen.

-My original shift boot is a bit ripped/hole riddled, so I covered it up.

-Since we're talking about under-trays, here's the twist ties, loose wire, and fencing material for my own bumper.

^Front passenger side. Passenger side tray has gone MIA, so I have the fender liner twisted to the bumper. This was cloth at one point, until it wore away and my splash guard started rubbing the tire... again (there's a hole).

^A zip-tie to compliment the twist tie. In this case it holds the front-right part of the fender liner.

^Drivers side tray is still there, but held up via wire stretching to the transaxle so it doesn't sag.

Chain-link tie again holding the chin to the frame radiator to avoid sag or unneeded movement.

 

I like your fixes. Good pics too. I have a crappy cam on my phone and that's it...I'll try to catch some pics soon.

It was driven by her Ma who, as far as I can tell, is a fairly clueless driver.

 

Oh yeah, been there. I can't tell you how many cars my girlfriends mom has bought a new beater in the three years I've known her. At one point they put regular oil in their minivans transmission by mistake. Another was a Paseo that just wouldn't stop over heating.

 

I made a couple covers this past week to help alleviate this. If they prove worthy, I am going to go talk to a local machine shop about duplication.

 

HarveyD - One way to protect the radiator from stones is stop hypermiling/drafting/tailgating.. :lol: JK. Like the screen idea, would come in handy out here in the winter with the sand.

 

same here

after 230000 klicks (Echo 2003), the original plugs electrode had totally dissapeared, causing undue stress on the coils and incidentally, cylinder 1 misfiring code had appeared after engine stuttetring at low revs. On top a smell of burnt candles was floating around the hood at the end of the last ride (waited 2 days expecting moisture as the culprit...). Me think it was the coil cooking.
anyways changes coil 1 and all plugs.... runs like new !!
Save for the brakes, it was the biggest repairs so far...

 

doh ! wrong forum. sorry !

 

I've also had this miss issue in the past, I also figured out that water got in the spark plug area after I powered washed the engine, I just pulled the plugs and let the water fall into the engine and blow out the area and spark plug boots. The issue is the worn rubber grommets that sandwich in between the coils and valve cover.

 

I used a little dielectric grease between the rubber boots and the valve cover. Seems to help keep the water and crud out.

Power washing may still inject some water though.

 

I have blasted water down the holes before too (with the plugs tight of course ). Getting sand or dirt in the cylinder changing plugs is one of the worst things that can happen. So long as the hole is mostly dry when you fire up any moisture will evaporate in a few minutes. Agree bulb/dielectric grease is always good on the boots/COP's. Most of the newer plugs have Nickel or Zinc coatings on the plug threads which serves as anti-seize so don't use anti-seize grease! Can easily overtighten and crack the shell.

 

+1, stuff falling down there is bad. I hate how deep it is, and my air compressor went out. I'd suggest blowing some of the water out rather than waiting for it to air dry or have the engine heat it.

How is that much dirt falling in, though, don't you have the usual seals?