Finally, the tires on the Highlander are in pretty good shape; basic all-weather, stock tires.

MFL

You must be riding on a Toyo Open Country A20 tires that comes with the car when new, they're crappy on water and snow, invest on a winter tires.

 

Was there ice under the snow?

 

No ice, just slush. The ABS is activating everywhere in the snow, slightest bit of snow, slight pressure on the pedal, and there goes ABS.

I turned off the Traction Control and it actually seems a bit BETTER with traction control off.

Wondering about the speed sensor system...

 

It's possible one sensor is faulty (or the wiring). I've seen this on other makes where there's a problem that causes one sensor to read a slightly slower speed than the other wheels and it activates incorrectly. Can you slowly slow down in the dry or non snow and note if it activates at all? It would be handy to have someone watch outside the car to see if any of the wheels are actually locking up. If a wheel is locking then the system is working right and you just have horrible tires or wrong tire pressures.

 

Thanks Folks! I am going to have the brakes checked out this week -- including ABS system and sensors.

However, the convergence of forum recommendations on the tires made me go out (through our 8 inches of snow!) to check the tires --- a brand I have never heard of, "Delta Essential." The look like (based on quick Internet search) cheap tires put on by the dealer (we bought the Highlander used). Maybe time to take a look at some new rubber.

What do people recommend for the HIghlander -- I have had Bridgestone, Michelin, Continental, and Cooper on our other cars --- but any strong recommendations for this SUV?

Thanks!

MFL

 

....any strong recommendations for this SUV?

The symptoms you described are exactly what I experienced with the OEM Toyo A20s I had on my '11. Replaced them with Firestone Destinations LE2s and have no complaints.

See this thread - http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...d-generation-2008-2013/478337-firestone-destination-le2-initial-impression.html

...and this one - http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/122-2nd-generation-2008-2013/473273-real-world-experience-continental-crosscontact-lx20-needed.html

 

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=157 Any of those would probably be a good choice.

 

Any thoughts? Have others had this problem with braking.

Interesting.. I too have a 2011 (base, Canadian model) and have wondered if the ABS is a) working as it should or b) adjustable. The first winter I felt everything was as good as could be expected. New Michelin Latitude X-ice winter tires. Winter #2.. slid through several stop signs where the ABS was working.. but I was not slowing as much as I thought I should be. Same so far this year, it really seems that the ABS kicks in far too soon.

The other issue that I would complain about.. if I thought it was resolvable is the fact that the car seems to de-throttle too soon when going into a skid. Almost to the point of being dangerous.. in my opinion. Turning from a stop sign and accelerating in a normal fashion is likely to flash the skidding symbol and totally de-throttle the vehicle. Makes one worry about getting rear ended.. when your car chokes.. while you would rather it did not.

 

Which wheel size do you have? 17" has a lot of good options, 19" not as many options. You can get more targeted advice by providing wheel size.

 

100% agree !!

If youre looking for 19", my recommendation would be the Bridgestone Blizzak...

Driving that the 3rd season now during the winter.

 

Had the exact same thing when my Duelers got to the end of their life. I have winter wheel set with Blizzaks and they are the best snow tire I have ever driven on, but are a little loud.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on the specifics of ABS? On the surface.. rotation of wheel is measured and compared to vehicle speed. If different..wheel is slipping.. limit braking pressure.
But.. by how much? Are the other non slipping tires included in the calculation? If all tires are slipping how is the vehicle speed measure.
On my HL "I" think the ABS is far too aggressive and feel the pulsing of the brakes on my HL limits my braking adversely.

 

^ That's the crux with ABS. There's no off button for snow conditions. It extends your stopping distances in snow tremendously putting you in more risk than if it were not there. Coming to a straight stop, you'd stop faster in snow locking up the wheels because it piles up snow in front of the tires. That's why you get a bumpy ride with the ABS. Just as it builds up berms, the ABS releases the brakes before the next pulse sending you up and over the berms. I hope someday they'll at least develop smart ABS systems to check speed. Maybe not engage it below 10 mph. Or analyze the speed before and after it engages and if the vehicle was slowing at a faster rate without it, then quit applying it. Shoot, they could desensitize it when we have Snow Mode on!

But then Toyota isn't very good about learning from their problems. They've got a serious design flaw in their front differentials on their FJ, Tacoma, etc and were even sent the solution years ago. But they still haven't fixed it. A $50 part at that.

 

The "sensitivity" of ABS seems to be quite a topic with a Google search. Evidently.. the "gap" of the sensor is an issue on some brands that require replacing complete hubs.. Wikipedia had some interesting information as well. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_brakeforce_distribution)

Electronic brakeforce distribution (EBD or EBFD), Electronic brakeforce limitation (EBL) is an automobile brake technology that automatically varies the amount of force applied to each of a vehicle's brakes, based on road conditions, speed, loading, etc. Always coupled with anti-lock braking systems, EBD can apply more or less braking pressure to each wheel in order to maximize stopping power whilst maintaining vehicular control.[1][2] Typically, the front end carries the most weight and EBD distributes less braking pressure to the rear brakes so the rear brakes do not lock up and cause a skid.[3] In some systems, EBD distributes more braking pressure at the rear brakes during initial brake application before the effects of weight transfer become apparent.

Does anyone know if the HL employs this "EBL" system or.. if one wheel slips ABS is applied to all wheels

 

MFL, I seriously doubt that your ABS sensors are the problem. The problem is your tires. Invest in a set of snow tires on dedicated wheels, and then you'll be satisfied.

This is my wife's first winter in her new Highlander (purchased in October). I immediately bought Blizzaks on 17" wheels for it (found a barely-used set on Craigslist for a good price), and installed them on her car at Thanksgiving time. She's been very pleased with her Highlander's winter performance, and she had lots of opportunities to test them this past weekend!

 

MFL, I had the exact same experience with my 11 4wd in Iowa a few weeks ago. I was sliding around and could not stop very well at all. The ABS was 'sensitive' to braking. I have 20K on my OEM Toyos and I believe they are just junk in cold weather. I don't think there is anything wrong with the ABS itself. I am putting new tires on in a week or so.

 

I just got to experience this myself yesterday. The OEM Toyo tires suck in a little bit of snow!! The ABS is doing its job. I never lost control of the car and it didn't even slide, but it still doesn't give you much confidence when the ABS feels it's necessary to keep jumping in because a wheel lost traction. Definitely need to be conscious of braking distance and keeping space between me and the car in front of me.

 

I dumped the Toyo's on my '11 SE shortly after taking delivery. I felt that my safety outweighed any potential value remaining in those crappy tires. For the past 32 months I've been happily motoring along on a set of Michelin LTX/M&S which are quiet, wear like iron and perform admirably on dry, wet and snowy conditions.

 

Those Michelin are great tires! I installed a set on a Lexus (Highlander) and got to compare before and after in a snowy lot. WORLD of difference. Went from spinning tires and sliding to just get up and go and then stopping normally.

 

We had some more snow here and while it wasn't much (an inch maybe) it left the streets slick/icy none the less. My '12 HIHI had the same ABS issue and I didn't think anything of it - light pressure on the pedal caused the ABS to kick in a few times, but the vehicle stopped straight and without issue.

BTW, my milage is just shy of 10K and the tires are the original Toyo's with plenty of thread remaining/unused.