Of course, the Camry is newer with more gears. But Avalon interior seems to be a lot more upscale. Given it is a close cousin of ES350, I am afraid it also has a lot of luxury features built in. The price is a bit higher on Avalon but Avalon is slow selling and it is easy to bargain a huge chunk off MSRP. Has anybody seriously compared these cars before their purchase? I am very interested in a detailed analysis. It seems to me that the Camry is the 'glamour stock' here and the Avalon is the 'value' choice. Thanks a lot.
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I've considered the 2018 Camry and a year old used ES350, but purchased an Avalon. Imo Toyota wanted to distant the 2018 Camry away from the Lexus and Avalon as far as possible and they sure succeeded. It's a nice car, but it ain't what I was expecting after all that talk about comfort, luxury interior and sophisticated powertrain. I've driven only an I-4 LE and SE and while the new 2.5 feels pretty nice, the 8-speed tranny was too sluggish and busy to my taste, but the biggest issue I have with the 2018 Camry is the lower sitting position and lower roof line. Even though they say the 2018 interior got bigger, it feels like it has less usable space vs the gen 7 Camry.
I drove a 2015-16 and 2017 ES350 and I would call the 2016+ Avalon more Lexus than ES350 is. Yes, the ES has a nicer center console and a bit nicer door cards and I love an analog clock in the middle, but the center tunnel looks and feels unacceptably cheap, so much hard plastic is ok for a Corolla-Camry level car, but not for a $40K entry luxury car.
The Avalon's touch screen is easier and quicker to operate (or just set it to auto and you don't have to touch it at all) and all center dash controls have much better ergonomics vs the ES's mouse pad and slippery wood steering wheel is so 90's.... The Avalon has more front and rear room and more comfortable on less than perfect pavement and there is no noticeable road and cabin noise difference between the restyled ES and 2016+ Avalon. The ES drives a bit sportier (most likely due to 18" wheels), but has pretty average cornering stability, though neither the Avalon or ES are boats and can be driven in a spirited manner. The MPG is the same, since the powertrain and all other specs are identical.
I feel very comfy in the Avalon and ES. I was pretty comfy in the gen 7 too, but can't say that about the 2018. The sitting position, seats, arm rest- everything is more comfortable in the Avalon. The comfort, ride, interior roominess and interior materials wise the Avalon and ES are in a different league compared to the 2018. The seat cushion angle was not sharp enough to me and I had to put rubber spacers under the front of the seat frame to fix it, but besides that the seat is really really comfy.
The Avalon's exterior is more stylish, though the C-pillar-trunk lid line is too hatchbackish imo and if want a sportier ride try a Touring model. They improved the ES front end look, but rear end still looks very average. Imo due to the lower design and huge windows he 2018 looks disproportional and while its front end is way too overdesigned, the rear is very simple and characterless.
Lexus has a better brand image, no arguing here, but in case with the ES350, since it's one of the most mass produced, most affordable and most discounted models, the ES image is not that high. My relatives own an IS,GS, ES and RX and I have very high opinion about the restyled ES, but since the Avalon got more comfortable and nicer detailed, I see no reason to pay an extra 5-7K for a badge. The GS is a different story and unfortunately significantly more expensive.
My buddy got an Avalon XLE Premium with bunch of add ons for $31K +TTL. Mine with less options was 30K. A similarly equipped used restyled ES350's were around 37K. It's hard to find a nice a year-2 old ES cuz all nice units are getting picked up and certified by Lexus.
There is another thing about the ES and Avalon. Both cars are at the end of their production life and will be replaced in 2019. The Avalon will be replaced by the new TNGA based Avalon, but the ES most likely gonna be discontinued. Looks like Lexus is planning to kill the ES and GS and introduce a new model that should replace them both. In that case they would drop the ES name and call it something else. No matter how good is a car, when a model is discontinued or even renamed, the resale of the older model goes down and unfortunately the ES's resale is not that great anyway (neither the Avalon's or Camry's, especially loaded XLE and XSE resale) compared to 5-7 years ago, but since the ES is noticeably more expensive, it would lose more.
If you can afford a nice ES- go for it, but if not, the Avalon is more than capable to deliver everything that the ES350 can, well, besides Lexus brand image.
I drove a 2015-16 and 2017 ES350 and I would call the 2016+ Avalon more Lexus than ES350 is. Yes, the ES has a nicer center console and a bit nicer door cards and I love an analog clock in the middle, but the center tunnel looks and feels unacceptably cheap, so much hard plastic is ok for a Corolla-Camry level car, but not for a $40K entry luxury car.
The Avalon's touch screen is easier and quicker to operate (or just set it to auto and you don't have to touch it at all) and all center dash controls have much better ergonomics vs the ES's mouse pad and slippery wood steering wheel is so 90's.... The Avalon has more front and rear room and more comfortable on less than perfect pavement and there is no noticeable road and cabin noise difference between the restyled ES and 2016+ Avalon. The ES drives a bit sportier (most likely due to 18" wheels), but has pretty average cornering stability, though neither the Avalon or ES are boats and can be driven in a spirited manner. The MPG is the same, since the powertrain and all other specs are identical.
I feel very comfy in the Avalon and ES. I was pretty comfy in the gen 7 too, but can't say that about the 2018. The sitting position, seats, arm rest- everything is more comfortable in the Avalon. The comfort, ride, interior roominess and interior materials wise the Avalon and ES are in a different league compared to the 2018. The seat cushion angle was not sharp enough to me and I had to put rubber spacers under the front of the seat frame to fix it, but besides that the seat is really really comfy.
The Avalon's exterior is more stylish, though the C-pillar-trunk lid line is too hatchbackish imo and if want a sportier ride try a Touring model. They improved the ES front end look, but rear end still looks very average. Imo due to the lower design and huge windows he 2018 looks disproportional and while its front end is way too overdesigned, the rear is very simple and characterless.
Lexus has a better brand image, no arguing here, but in case with the ES350, since it's one of the most mass produced, most affordable and most discounted models, the ES image is not that high. My relatives own an IS,GS, ES and RX and I have very high opinion about the restyled ES, but since the Avalon got more comfortable and nicer detailed, I see no reason to pay an extra 5-7K for a badge. The GS is a different story and unfortunately significantly more expensive.
My buddy got an Avalon XLE Premium with bunch of add ons for $31K +TTL. Mine with less options was 30K. A similarly equipped used restyled ES350's were around 37K. It's hard to find a nice a year-2 old ES cuz all nice units are getting picked up and certified by Lexus.
There is another thing about the ES and Avalon. Both cars are at the end of their production life and will be replaced in 2019. The Avalon will be replaced by the new TNGA based Avalon, but the ES most likely gonna be discontinued. Looks like Lexus is planning to kill the ES and GS and introduce a new model that should replace them both. In that case they would drop the ES name and call it something else. No matter how good is a car, when a model is discontinued or even renamed, the resale of the older model goes down and unfortunately the ES's resale is not that great anyway (neither the Avalon's or Camry's, especially loaded XLE and XSE resale) compared to 5-7 years ago, but since the ES is noticeably more expensive, it would lose more.
If you can afford a nice ES- go for it, but if not, the Avalon is more than capable to deliver everything that the ES350 can, well, besides Lexus brand image.
I would much rather have the 2018 Camry XLE. Here's why: I was renting a new 2017 Avalon XLE at the time I went to a Toyota dealer to test drive a 2018 Camry LE. The Avalon has small front seat bottoms that feel hard and economy car-like after 15 minutes behind the wheel. The 2018 Camry's seat bottoms are also smallish but not as hard so are more comfortable on long drives. The Camry has a more commanding view of the road and is more agile due to its shorter length and wheelbase. The ride of both cars is about the same - the 2018 Camry has improved body regidity that quells body vibrations. And the Camry has a compliant suspension that soaks up road bumps even with 18" wheels and tires. And the Camry has an under carpet road noise silencer. So a 2018 Camry is comparable to the 2017 Avalon in ride comfort and quietness while delivering improved power and fuel economy. The climate controls of the Camry are easier and faster to adjust compared to the capacitive touch controls of the Avalon.
The 2018 Camry has a more nimble and stable feel to it in part due to it's lower center of gravity - it's stable during quick lane changes at highway speeds whereas the boatlike Avalon is harder to regain control.
The 2018 Camry XLE will retain its value better and be easier to sell when you need to sell because it's a top seller whereas the Avalon's reputation was hurt badly by it's economy car like hard ride (2013-15 models) and economy car sized seat and hard padding.
So I would test drive both cars if I were you. The Avalon just feels too dated and boat like to me while not offering a comfort advantage compared to a 2018 Camry. It's power and fuel economy levels are dated too. Reliability wise the Avalon has an inherent advantage due to its 10 year old engine and transmission that have had all the bugs worked out of them.
The 2018 Camry has a more nimble and stable feel to it in part due to it's lower center of gravity - it's stable during quick lane changes at highway speeds whereas the boatlike Avalon is harder to regain control.
The 2018 Camry XLE will retain its value better and be easier to sell when you need to sell because it's a top seller whereas the Avalon's reputation was hurt badly by it's economy car like hard ride (2013-15 models) and economy car sized seat and hard padding.
So I would test drive both cars if I were you. The Avalon just feels too dated and boat like to me while not offering a comfort advantage compared to a 2018 Camry. It's power and fuel economy levels are dated too. Reliability wise the Avalon has an inherent advantage due to its 10 year old engine and transmission that have had all the bugs worked out of them.
I had a 2006 Avalon XLS. Coming into the buyer's market, I gave the 2017 a looksee just to be fair. As much as I am a fan of the generation I had, the 2017 simply was uninspiring for me to purchase despite its amenities and comparative price point. It comes down to styling (pedestrian) and a lack of power (still using the 268-hp engine). The Camry trumps the Avalon (and ES for that matter) on both points....
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