oh geez.

Here we go again.

Does anyone remember the days when the search button used to flash?

http://toyotanation.com/forum/search.php?searchid=79642


Edit ....
I vote Z but I'm biased. <G>
The 20V numbers are inflated as they are based on numbers in Japan ...
http://toyotanation.com/forum/t18041.html

In North America most of the silvertops put no more than 130 to the wheels and the 4agze's are close to the same. The difference then becomes the torque curve for each motor. The GZE does produce much more torque at the lower to mid rpm's

http://www.padandwheels.com/mr2/blacktopproject/dyno.html

Funny I couldn't find one baseline gze on the web. Well i'm buying a JDM GZE next week, and should have it installed in stock form in the spring. I'll get a dyno then lol.

Anyway when you look at the torque curve of the GE above you can see it is .. well flat and does not match the HP in terms of pure numbers. Also note that the posted curve above is for an engine running on high octane fuel. Put it on pump gas and the torque would be much much lower at the lower rpms. Why? The timing would have to be retarded, or extreme detonation would ensue followed by broken parts. A supercharged motor on the other hand has a torque curve that mirrors the HP curve and the pure torque numbers usually come closer to the HP numbers ... 130 hp at the wheels and 130ft.lb of torque ... available on 92 octane.

 

I went over this to myself. but I don't know... I am really starting to like my 4af. Hasn't done wrong to me yet

 

I went over this to myself. but I don't know... I am really starting to like my 4af. Hasn't done wrong to me yet

apparently you haven't driven a 4age 16/20V car or a 4agze powered car.... then you would realize what the 4af has done you wrong with

i would say 4agze

 

apparently you haven't driven a 4age 16/20V car or a 4agze powered car.... then you would realize what the 4af has done you wrong with

i would say 4agze

Im with you on this one 4agze all the way. My 4af was a piece of sh!t.

 

biased opinion... 4AGZE!

its also the cheapest to modify... all you need is a bigger pulley. :lol:

 

^ hahaha go for the boost or get a mr2 sc!!
why dont you just put a 3sgte in it?!

 

^ hahaha go for the boost or get a mr2 sc!!
why dont you just put a 3sgte in it?!

oh my, here we go again!

what about 7A-GZTE with 100 shot NOS! :thumbup: :naughty:

 

^ i was just kidding
even the 4age silver top is much better than the 4ag
though yes the 4agze is still the best

its a ae92 not a ae86 so the extra torqe for drifting is not an option
if it is the ae86 i would say the sc one cause of the torqe and on lower rpms

IMO i would just go for whatever engine you can get you lil paws on.

 

If you live in western Canada these guys are the best ...

jdmsource.ca

He just sold his last gze well.. today but should be getting more in next week, ( that is when I'm buying my new (used) one.

 

apparently you haven't driven a 4age 16/20V car or a 4agze powered car.... then you would realize what the 4af has done you wrong with

i would say 4agze

Don't worry, he's getting a free ride on whichever car I'm driving if he comes to a TN Scarborough meet. Maybe I'll even let him drive it. :ugh3: :lol:

 

hmm it'd be cool to have a gza you can install a custom switch to turn on and off the S/C and save money on gas, then just switch it on when you want that power meeeeeeeeoooooooow meeeeeeeeeeeooooooooooooowwwwww is something what it sounds like hahaha.

And about the dyno of the blacktop, I beleive there is somethnig wrong with a senser or the ecu or something the air to fuel ratio shouldnt go down as the rpms raise.

 

Also has anyone had experience with jdmsource.ca? Might order a 20v from them. A gain of 20 hp for $900 or so isnt bad all though lots of work is involved.

 

^ hahaha go for the boost or get a mr2 sc!!

um, all 4agze's have the 'mr2 sc' which is just an SC12. However, the previas s/c's are actually larger (sc14). The mr2's also actually have the lowest power 4agze that was available.

^ i was just kidding
even the 4age silver top is much better than the 4ag
though yes the 4agze is still the best

its a ae92 not a ae86 so the extra torqe for drifting is not an option
if it is the ae86 i would say the sc one cause of the torqe and on lower rpms

IMO i would just go for whatever engine you can get you lil paws on.

ok, run that by me again??? From what i've seen most drift cars are setup for higher revving applications or turbo applications (which is more of a high rev application than a supercharger, obviously). Mainly because you have more control of the car if you stay in gear and have a long rpm band to play around in (don't need to worry about weight shifts as much when shifting gears....)

Also.... really, the 20V isn't all that much better than the 16V's.... dynos have shown that the silvertop really only produces about 10whp more than a silvertop or a good running bigport..... add on the ITB's and larger cams (because both 20V's came with cams larger than any of the 16V's) and you'll easily reach that extra 10hp figure.

Now.... i'm going to give you my real answer to this question....

What do you want to do with the car?

Around the town driving, getting on the freeway fast, occasional auto-x events -
the 4agze is great for this. you can easily out accelerate MANY cars on the road, which helps if needing to maneuver through traffic or whatnot. The power is there for auto-x events, however there is almost too much power for short runs - ie you lose time because you have to brake more.

Gas mileage, fun car, great handling, lots of auto-x and some/lots of road course -
Either a tuned smallport 16V or a 20V. The tranny you *should* use on the gze is quite heavy, and so is the s/c setup - the car loses a lot of its 'nimbleness'. Having a high revving motor that runs & runs & runs and never overheats is great on and off the track. You will also get better gas mileage with this setup. The motors are well balanced and have good power proportion through the band (ie, it isn't all that jumpy) and help with good smooth acceleration - which is what you want for a great handling car.

1/4 mile -
ae101 4agze, stripped of it's supercharger parts.... larger cams, n/a intake manifold, a large turbo, E series tranny, and a fuel/ignition setup to support it all.

 

ACtually I have driving a 4age 16v in an ae86. Yes it was more powerful. It felt amazing. but I don't know shoving the 4age into my car would change it. I prove time and time again that I don't need the power to beat people in cornering. Since I don't really need it why get it? like the 4af can do 200 km/h goin down the hwy. If I had the 4age I would probably end up in trouble or end up killing myself

 

good points Thomas... just quick Q, why use an E series tranny on the MAP GZE? is it strong enough? why not just run the stock tranny? just curious.

btw, the larger aftermarket cams for 16Vs are about the same price for a 1st Gen ST 20V.

 

ACtually I have driving a 4age 16v in an ae86. Yes it was more powerful. It felt amazing. but I don't know shoving the 4age into my car would change it. I prove time and time again that I don't need the power to beat people in cornering. Since I don't really need it why get it? like the 4af can do 200 km/h goin down the hwy. If I had the 4age I would probably end up in trouble or end up killing myself

you wanna know the truth... drive it on a ROAD course against the B16s, 4A-GEs and SR20s, then tell me if you can beat those guys on the corners while driving the 4A-F.

FYI, doing 200 km/h... you ARE in trouble already!

 

Also has anyone had experience with jdmsource.ca? Might order a 20v from them. A gain of 20 hp for $900 or so isnt bad all though lots of work is involved.

He's is in Calgary, you may want to see if there is anyone local to help you but so far I have only heard of one bad experience with him, and that motor was actually provided second hand.

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59759&highlight=jdm+source

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32499&highlight=jdm+source

but be forwarned the 20v is not that much of a performance gain over the stock AG. If you are gonna do all that work (swap) wouldn't you want more for it.

I would also be wary because that is 900 USD

 

Biased opinion... go with a 20v

I love it... just the way it looks... so sexy. ITB's!!! :lol:

Never driven a 4agze... so I couldn't tell ya.

 

you should use an E series because the C series tend to break on hard launches with a GZE

 

dubba post

 

Are those ITB's on a 16v? Also, that motor looks weird... what's different?

 

it's not the engine that allows you to corner fast :S. I find that most of the people around here that have more powerful engines corner slower because they have the power to floor it on straights. The way I drive, and probably always will drive, is purely because I drive a car with 90 hp. if I had the 4age first I wouldn't drive like this

 

If you have lots of power, you can use that to help you through the turn. Ever watch drifting? lol

 

it's not the engine that allows you to corner fast :S. I find that most of the people around here that have more powerful engines corner slower because they have the power to floor it on straights. The way I drive, and probably always will drive, is purely because I drive a car with 90 hp. if I had the 4age first I wouldn't drive like this

about 3 years ago i would have said the same thing

however, with the same transmission and the new 4age.... the car was THAT MUCH BETTER (and i'm talking about my ae92). The motor is much more balanced and has much smoother acceleration (smoother than a bigport, easily). Also, the much higher rev limiter allows for less shifting.... to give you an example..... i can reach just about 70mph in 2nd gear..... so, from 35mph to 70mph i don't need to shift - for auto-x that's almost perfect...

on top of that, the fact that the 4age ISN'T all that powerful (in the scheme of things) you can still drive through corners at WOT. My old roommate used to call my ae92 'the gokart' because it was similar to a karting experience..... he could enter a corner at just about any speed he wants, the car will take it, but once he exits the corner the car falls flat on its face for any sort of acceleration. Now the car is damn near perfect for handling situations. I have a good friend (mr2_vri over on www.mr2oc.com and www.northwestmr2.com) who has an 89 mr2... he's been legally racing it for 2 years (and legally racing his Saturn for about 4 years). The car outhandles just about anything out there (well built, good driver, stiff chasis)... however, when he gets in my ae92 he believes it actually OUTHANDLES his mid engine car.... think that one over

As for the above picture.... it's my ae92. Car is an 'SR5'. Motor is a smallport (aka 'redtop' though that term really means nothing) high compression 4age (non t-vis, 10.3:1). That picture was taken back when i had the ITB's on the car... however i've since put the stock manifold off as the 4afe ecu (which has been modified) couldn't idle the engine too well and ran it WAY rich. I have yet another megasquirt ecu (which i have recently built) that will be controlling the engine. The 'stacks' are simply the stacks that are from the silvertop 20V's plenum turned upwards.

Lastly.... my mr2 really does have too much power for small auto-x events (ae101 4agze). The same friend (mr2_vri) has ridden and driven it. He realizes that the car easily out accelerates his (and his 88 celica alltrac), however since it's that much faster i spend more time braking and also have to feather the gas a bit more - mainly because the rear WILL kick out and that's even more time lost on a track.

 

Well a guy here in winnipeg thats done a 20v st into a ae102 is gonna let me check it out and give me a ride so I can see what its like, I really wouldnt want to buy an engine if I didn't know what it felt like(unless it was something crazy like a rb26dett or something) only thing that gets me down is how the wiring is supposed to be so complicated and such a pain and I can't really read wiring diagrams but I guess i'll never learn unless I do it.

Just a few questions, is a ecu pin out identification like this http://club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech_pages/ECU%20Japan%204age%2020V%20Silver.htm
what people are calling a wiring diagram? or is a wiring diagram something else?
Also any tips on reading that type of stuff?

Also thats a nice engine bay toyotaspeed90 doesnt look anywhere near as cluttered as mine.