The 3ee is ok and reliable. If you're going for maximum gas savings, you're better off with a 95 or newer Tercel if you can find one. The 5efe is more efficient and puts out more power using less gas. The 3ee is simpler and very easy to work on though. It's fuel injection with the minimum amount of extra crap. I'm not sure about the other stuff, but I do know the valve stem seals do often cause a little oil burning on the 3ee and 3e.

 

I began my search for a cheap gas saver and have seriously considered a Tercel that is somewhat close to me. It appears by the valve cover to have the 3E-E motor. I immediately did research on the year/model('94) and the only hiccup I came up with was apparently these motors are "weak" when it comes to Toyota.

It seems oil control rings, the valve seals, and intake system are the weak points. But when i got to this site, people started bringing up the bottom end, the rods, etc as weak points.

Here's my question--it seems there isn't a specific thread dedicated to all of the downfalls of the 3e-e, can someone possibly tell me what exactly makes these points weak?

This car will not be modified for more power or speed, but probably modified for better MPG.
Thanks for any info.

The 3e-e's had a factory defect in that the valve stem seal. They eventually leaked and you will notice smoke when you start up. New ones (silicone) can be had for cheap from ebay. It means a valve head job though, and a kit is usually around $125. It means doing the timing belt as well. And since you are already taking it apart, you may as well do the pumps.

 

Hmmm, I'm surprised to hear that the later years with more power are more efficient, but that may not be enough for me to wait to find one. That's for the info, sounds like it's still a solid little motor.

Pumps? A valve job/head refresh wouldn't be hard, I have machine shop services available for free so the machine work is no issue.

 

Hmmm, I'm surprised to hear that the later years with more power are more efficient, but that may not be enough for me to wait to find one. That's for the info, sounds like it's still a solid little motor.

Pumps? A valve job/head refresh wouldn't be hard, I have machine shop services available for free so the machine work is no issue.

Water and oil.

 

Water and oil pumps. The 3ee is great up to about 125,000 miles then it starts to suffer. The design of the head allows oil to flow onto the seals. The fe heads have the seals protected by lifter buckets. I got 41mpg from my 3EE and doubt a 5efe does any better under same conditions. You can swap a 5efe into an earlier Tercel very easily.

Power bug hasn't bitten yet? I have to admit it's a lot of fun eatting smoked horse. Getting 36mpg while doing it is priceless though.

 

Power bug hasn't bitten yet? I have to admit it's a lot of fun eatting smoked horse. Getting 36mpg while doing it is priceless though.

Got that right. Just have to figure out how to get that into my daily driver, as the bike is plenty of fast, but a real PITA to go shopping with. :thumbsdow I'll take 40 mpg for now, though.

The Paseo, at least under my watch, will never outroll a C6 Corvette and/or get 55 mpg at the same time... but if it someday can outroll any trundling, indifferent SUV/minivan and get 36, that's the answer.

 

Is seeing 55-60mpg from these things reasonable? There is a member here (Doax?) that is on a mission, but not sure if he achieved it yet.

 

Daox has managed 75mpg average consumption over a week long including work commutes. Did this with the Paseo which is considered the sport version of our cars. If you set out for economy it can be accomplished quite well.

At 125,000 miles my valve seals, cam seal, front and main crank seals, oil pump seal, oil pump gasket, water pump and transmission input/output seals were all shot. Sure you can pull the engine and replace all these seals with oem Toyota parts (plus the timing belt) and pull another 80,000 miles on the rings with no problems. While pulling it though, why not have a 5efe ready to go back in it's place with all these seals fresh? The 5efe won't get the valve seal issue as quick as a 3ee but the other seals will still get brittle.

You didn't tell us you already have power, that's great. I'm guessing it's not a Toyota product or I'd think you would tell us about it. Some of the Tercel guys are quite serious about their cars too. I know of one 11 second street ride in MD with full interior and working a/c. Another car in Miami area has a 3sgte pushing 600hp. A 403hp Tercel stays in New Mexico I believe with a 4ag in an 87. If my parts ever get here we'll be looking at an 800hp rwd Starlet in Georgia.

Undersize bearings are available yes. You can buy crank kits at most parts stores for $100 to $150 for most 4 banger Toyotas. Open the engine and examine what you have first. If the bearings are worn but not spun and crank isn't gauging into them consider replacing them with oem bearings first. Pay attention to which bearing comes from which journal as each one may be different size! Each will have a number stamped into the bearing. Write these numbers down or carry the bearings to your dealer. These numbers will get you the correct replacement for each bearing. Again, make sure they go back in the correct places.

Kinako, you can boost the 5efe you have with an aftermarket exhaust manifold and ct9 turbo or equivelant. With 10psi you'll fry most Mustangs even at the 1/4 mile. If you need more power than that let me know. Tie the wastegate open on a ct9 and it won't come online till about 4500rpm but will still make 10psi around 5,000rpm. It won't even affect normal driving then.

 

Here's the thing with me and the 5efe though, it seems like that is the performance alternative to the 3ee. I don't want performance(speed), but rather mileage, so would it still be a good idea?(how I feel is if the 5efe is to sacrifice any mileage gains whatsoever, I want nothing to do with it; however that mindset may be a little naive/ignorant--I'm new to this[heck I don't even own the car yet])

I want to get mileage out of this thing, hopefully 60+, if I want performance I'll buy/build something else.

Thank you SO much for the help, very informative.

 

Here's the thing with me and the 5efe though, it seems like that is the performance alternative to the 3ee. I don't want performance(speed), but rather mileage

It pretty much boils down to two things: friction, and DOHC vs. SOHC...

Friction -- one of the reasons the SOHC 3E-E gets the numbers that it does, is that you have the same displacement spinning fewer plain bearings in the valvetrain aka cam journals, as well as valve buckets. This is substantial enough to give conservative porting a way to bump the mpg numbers higher than the same 5E-FE.

However... one of the great advantages of a well-designed DOHC Four over a SOHC Four, is the ability to adjust cam timing for each cam independent of the other (degreeing). Combine that with experienced porting and better compression and oil control rings... and the 5E has *waaay* more potential to give you great mpg, but while also giving you easily 100% more power, and as much as 400%.

It will cost more cash to do so, but remember with $75 worth of off-shelf aftermarket stuff, I can get 40 mpg with my 5E, and TercelGTS says turbocharged 5Es can get similar mileage *with* A/C. If 40 mpg sounds like a great bonus for swapping in a 5E... then what is the matter with getting 200+ hp with it, when you can afford to do it? Doesn't that sound like a great value?

If anything, if you do swap in a bone stock 5E, it will, as T-GTS mentioned, be much more graceful in degradation than a 3E-E. That to me, is reason enough, despite my performance enthusiast bent.

 

Hahaha, well I'll consider it down the road, but for now I'd probably keep the 3ee. We'll see, I don't even know if I can get the car. The guy isn't answering his phone...

 

Actually Daox used a 5efe for his 75mpg car. He likes doing things backwards to prove it can happen. His 3ee Tercel is supercharged.

 

You're freakin kidding me. :lol:

OK, now I have no doubt.

 

http://ecomodder.com/forum/em-fuel-log.php?vehicleid=39

That is his record for mileage with that car. I see the mileage has dropped considerably however Daox is not the current driver.

You can see the yellow record high mileage on this graph. Even with a different driver that car is still making near 50mpg.

 

How do you know it's a different driver? How would he be keeping track so closely? Did he bug the car or something? :lol:

The guy with the car has yet to answer, time to start looking for another one.

 

Read his thread. His wife is driving it now. A few people are part of the ecomodder scene. You'll see it in their sigs.

 

I know this is now off topic, but I have done some research and found that the highest geared 5spd in the tercel seems to be the C151 from the 5G Tercel(95+).

Is it easy/possible to mate that trans to a 3ee that originally had the 5spd from that generation(C150?)?
I have a funny feeling these trans are hard to find.

Thanks again for the help and advice.

 

The biggest thing you'll find out is that high gear is the same ratio from flywheel to axles regardless which Tercel/Paseo manual transmission you pick. My 93 Tercel came with a 4 speed then I swapped in a 5 speed from a 97 Tercel, then a 5 speed came with the turbo engine, after breaking that I went to a 96 Paseo trans, then finally to a 92 Paseo trans. All 5 speeds except the original. All turned same rpm in 5th at 70mph except possibly the turbo model. I never had that transmission on a standard engine so I honestly don't know how it would have compared. The turbo model is actually a Corolla trans bolted to a Tercel bellhousing. I can't say if the ratio is adapted for 13" Starlet wheels instead of 14" Corolla wheels and that may be the deal.

I will say this though, the turbo engine redlines at 7300rpm where a 3ee is at 5800 or a 5efe is at 6800. With it's matching transmission the max speed per gear goes like 1st = 40mph, 2nd = 70mph, 3rd = 105mph, 4th = 125mph(requires speed limiter cut), 5th gear depends on your horsepower level.

ps, even the 4 speed turned same rpm at 70 as the Tercel/Paseo 5speeds but sure took off easier and climbed hills.

 

ps, even the 4 speed turned same rpm at 70 as the Tercel/Paseo 5speeds but sure took off easier and climbed hills.

So you're saying that the 4-spd is better for dealing with hills than the 5-spd?

 

No, just in high gear they have the same final drive ratio. In hills the 5speed dropped to 4th gear will pull with far less effort and not over rev the engine.