I think you might be being played. It is indeed a non interference engine so a broken valve is questionable. It is an I4 engine not a V4. It does have dual overhead cams. You haven't mentioned mileage or condition of the engine so that plays into it. Has the mech torn down the engine to see the valves or just guessing?

 

It has a 192000 miles on it. It was running great till that second. All i know is he called and told me " it has bent valves and 80% leakage on cylinder #3 thru the intake and if you have one belt valve you probably have more"

 

*if you have one bent valve..

 

To be blunt, your mechanic is either an idiot or a con man. Non-interference means no damage is done if the belt slips or breaks. Period. End of discussion. Seen it a hundred times here.

If he’s trying to do a compression test with a busted belt, he’s an idiot. Of course there will be no compression. The valves aren’t timed properly!

In short, find another mechanic. A timing belt job should cost $400-$900, depending on where you live and what sort of shop you take it to.

 

I just went to speak to him an mentioned its a non inteference. He looked it up and said i was correct. So i asked him if just fixing the belt will fix the issue. He said it would cost $475 but he wouldn't be able to guarantee that it would be the end of the issues. Attached are some pictures
So when he said theres 80% leakage in one valve there is no way for him to know that because theres no belt?
Thanks for all your help

 

He said it would cost $475 but he wouldn't be able to guarantee that it would be the end of the issues. Attached are some pictures

I don’t see anything wrong in those pics. $475 is a pretty good price. Ask him if that includes replacing the water pump and idler pulley. It’s best to replace those things while doing a timing belt job. Get a kit supplied by Aisin, if he’s willing to let you pick the parts. Aisin is the OEM supplier to Toyota.

So when he said theres 80% leakage in one valve there is no way for him to know that because theres no belt?

Possibly. Seeing that he’s removed the valve cover makes me wonder how he did the test. Did he use a compression tester, or a leak down tester? With the cover off, he might’ve done a leak down test on a cylinder with the valves closed. That would be legit. 80% is really, really bad! But the fact it was running fine before the belt broke makes me think it’ll run fine with a new belt.

 

I actually had the water pump replaced at about 100000 miles

 

Generally accepted wisdom around here is to do the complete timing belt job every 90k miles. I go 100k. If an off brand pump was installed, I’d be even more inclined to replace it.

 

If I decide to fix it i will have the water pump replaced as well.

 

If cyl #3 really had 80% leak down, the engine would run very poorly. Anything above 20% is unacceptable. The test really should be done with the engine warmed up. Testing it cold can give bogus readings.

But, like I said, if it was running fine before, it should run the same after replacing the belt.

 

When we are talking about cylinder leakage, does that mean that it would leak on to the ground because of the leak?
Thanks for all the replies

 

No. It’s a measure of the health of the cylinder. How well the valves seal, how well the piston rings seal, and it will also be affected by a blown head gasket. A cracked block or head can also cause higher numbers.

To do a leakdown test, a fitting is screwed into a spark plug hole with the piston at top dead center, and both exhaust and intake valves closed. Then compressed air is applied. The amount of air leaking is measured in %.

 

I've broke a few belts on a 4cyl in my day. I just drug it home, replaced the belt and drove on. Of course, any preventive maintenance you would like done while it is open is good insurance.

 

Same here. Last time I didn't even bother replacing the water pump.

 

Replace the timing belt and check compression before anything else is reassembled, or set each cam lobe at TDC for that cylinder and shoot compressed air in the plug holes to check for leak down. My youngest brother had his belt break on his Integra, definitely an interference engine. It died while idling. We tested each cylinder for leak down by putting the cylinders at 90 degrees ATDC and setting the cam lobes where they would be for TDC on each cylinder. All 4 held pressure, so we put the new belt on and it ran perfect.
The cam is at TDC for each cylinder when the cam lobes are both as far as they can be from the valve buckets. Both will be about 3/4ths of opposing both buckets. In the 180 degrees of the compression-combustion part of a 4 cycle engine the cam rotates 90 degrees.

 

Replace the timing belt and check compression before anything else is reassembled, or set each cam lobe at TDC for that cylinder and shoot compressed air in the plug holes to check for leak down. My youngest brother had his belt break on his Integra, definitely an interference engine. It died while idling. We tested each cylinder for leak down by putting the cylinders at 90 degrees ATDC and setting the cam lobes where they would be for TDC on each cylinder. All 4 held pressure, so we put the new belt on and it ran perfect.
The cam is at TDC for each cylinder when the cam lobes are both as far as they can be from the valve buckets. Both will be about 3/4ths of opposing both buckets. In the 180 degrees of the compression-combustion part of a 4 cycle engine the cam rotates 90 degrees.

So if its at 80% leakage does that mean it will get to 90%...100% leakage or is it possible for it to stay at 80% leakage for years to come?
And if if does get to 100% in cylinder #3 will the car die until its fixed?

 

Find a different mechanic, best advice given here. If $475 is the going rate around your area, that's great - it's about $600-650 around here.

 

For your reference, my 1998 Camry 4 cylinder stopped on highway due to broken timing belt. This car had about 150K miles. AAA towed to the nearest garage and it was fixed with new belt and coolant pump the following day for about $1100 (northern California).
What they didn't change was the oil pump (or cam) seal resulting in oil leak several months later. I am aware that the seal changes are optional so no blame on the mechanic. Knowing what I know today I would have asked for the seals replacement. After another $300, all came back to normal.

 

Usually a failed and seized water pump will break the timing belt. Check/replace water pump because it could have caused the problem.

 

So at the end if the day, i probably had 80% leak in one cylinder for a while and than the timing belt went but there was no damage to the cylinder because of the belt going?
Is that correct?

 

Correct, except I question if you really have a cylinder leaking..

 

He told me the other 3 cylinders are withing the allowed leak range (15-20%) and because my check engine light was not on previous to belt going ( would have the check engine light been on if there was damage to cylinder?) the damage to cylinder #3 probably happened when the belt went.
His advice was not to just replace belt and water pump because there will be future issues. but at the same time he also said I probably shouldnt spend $1500 to fix the cylinder as well because the car isnt worth more than that
So he seems honest or he doesn't want the work... im not sure what to do

 

Get the car home and replace the belt (and any bad idlers or water pump if bad) and see what happens. It's easy enough to do. Do that and report back. This is a relatively easy car to change a timing belt on (not the easiest, but relatively easy).

 

oil pump seal

 

so i will get the item from advanced auto parts Press on link below) because it includes the oil pump seal. should i also change the idler pulley spring?, thermostat ?or is that not necessary ?

Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance

 

Idler spring is VERY important. It was updated. Get Toyota OEM only. Toyota thermostat is also a good idea.

 

im having a very hard time finding a idler spring that i can either get on amazon or advanced auto parts so i can have it within 2 days. do you have a link to one?
and will this thermostat do or is it to off brand? Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance

 

Get both from Toyota. OEM only. Worth the wait in my opinion.

 

JohnGD thank you! Do you have a part number for the updated idler spring?
and i was reading up on FEL-PRO and they say it leaks oil easily. do you disagree with that?

 

I'd recommend that you look up the parts on rockauto.com just to compare prices. You can get the Aisin thermostat and gasket there too. Aisin will give you OEM parts (Aisin is a Toyota group company).

The tensioner spring is like $5, so give the dealer your VIN number.

Verify part numbers on Online Gasket Catalog, Part Finder & Reference | Fel-Pro Gaskets
You can then search on rockauto's catalog as the crank seal set doesn't show up by itself. You can consider Victor Reinz as well. I personally prefer Fel Pro but have used both.

Consider the following (you can decide if you want the cheaper wholesale closeouts. Given you're having problems I wouldn't this time.)

GATES K030295 Micro-V AT Power Steering Belt $8.73
GATES K050433 Micro-V AT Alt/AC Belt $12.42
FEL-PRO TCS45920 Crankshaft Front Seal Set (includes oil pump shaft seal and o-ring) $5.16 (regular inventory)
FEL-PRO TCS45641 Camshaft Front Seal $4.02 (regular inventory)
FEL-PRO VS50304R1 Valve Cover Gasket Set w/Spark plug tube seals $18.74
Aisin thermostat THT009 $9.54
Aisin thermostat outlet seal THP102 $1.30
Aisin TKT002 timing kit with water pump $90.79

Walmart has 5qt jugs of oil, Toyota genuine filter as well as Zerex Asian Red premixed coolant about $13/gallon.

1999 TOYOTA CAMRY 2.2L L4 Thermostat | Shop Now at RockAuto

Cooling System Parts and More for Your 1999 TOYOTA CAMRY at Reliably Low Prices. Fast Online Catalog. DIY-Easy. Your Choice of Quality. Full Manufacturer Warranty.

www.rockauto.com

And use the 5% discount code (scroll to the newest post):

RockAuto Discount Code

Hey guys, I got this discount code but it will expire on October 24th and I won't be using it. I don't know if it can be used more than once so whoever uses it first might be the only one to get it. All you do is put this number "38391513162399" without the quotes in the "How did you hear...

www.toyotanation.com

 

I don't have a part number for the spring. Looking on an online Toyota dealer catalog, it may be 90507-17003 (searching on 99 Camry LE 2.2 5SFE). However, the accurate way to tell is to give a dealer your VIN number. It's about $3.50 plus shipping, so locally it's going be a bit more but cheap enough to get a new one. Besides, the picture on the web catalog is wrong. LOL

BTW, the Amazon seals you listed are Fel-Pro! You need to lube the rotating seals on install. OE ones from the dealer come with dabs of greases from the factory. Sometimes they smear all over the plastic bag however. LOL

Fel-Pro has always worked for me and are my first, go-to seals. No problems. In fact I had more problems with Victor Reinz, but others experienced just the opposite. So I guess it's a toss up which one you pick. Of course, you can look on McGeorge Toyota (or other online dealers) and get OE oil seals.

Valve Train Components for 1999 Toyota Camry | Toyota Parts|Toyota Online Parts

parts.mcgeorgetoyota.com

Also, this discussion on the different springs may help, and based on the discussion, the silver one with the stronger tension should be the correct one. This makes sense as Toyota was having problems with timing belt knocking loose under the cover.

5s-fe timing belt tension spring, 2 different kinds?

I have read that there are two types of timing belt tension springs for the 4 cylinder 5f-se engine out there. An original one and an updated one. They have a different number of coils and I assume a different length. The FSM only mentions a green or silver color difference each with a Free...

www.toyotanation.com

BTW, in the DIY section you might have seen already:

Part 1: Timing Belt and Oil Seals Replacement (w/ Pictures)

Part 1: Timing Belt and Oil Seals Replacement 5S-FE (w/ Pictures) Car: 1996 Camry, 4 cyl., 5SFE, Auto Trans., 191000 miles Project: Timing Belt and Oil Seals Replacement Hey Everyone I recently changed my timing belt and the oil seals: camshaft, crankshaft, and the two oil pump housing...

www.toyotanation.com

Part 2: Timing Belt and Oil Seals Replacement (w/ Pictures)

Part 2: Timing Belt and Oil Seals Replacement 5S-FE (w/ Pictures) **************************************************** Continued from Part 1 --> http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/4003328-post1.html **************************************************** ====== PART 2 ======= I washed everything...

www.toyotanation.com

My Timing Belt Job (Pics) 56k go away

I decided to do a timing belt job on my '00 camry. It has 91,000km on it and the schedule maintenance factory sticker says replace every 100,000km. I felt bored so I decided to do it early. Here are the parts I bought in advance: Timing Belt S$45 Timing Bearing #1 S$25 Timing Bearing #2 S$30...

www.toyotanation.com

DIY: GEN3 Timing Belt + Waterpump + Oil Seal Change - Part 1

DIY: 1996 Camry Timing Belt + Waterpump + Oil Seal Change 5S-FE (GEN3) - Part 1 Part 1.... I completed this procedure at 203,000 km on my 1996 Camry 2.2L Auto (5S-FE Engine) . The timing belt, drive belts, water pump, idler and tensioner had previously been changed at 103,000 km. The cost of...

www.toyotanation.com

DIY: GEN3 Timing Belt + Waterpump + Oil Seal Change - Part 2

DIY: 1996 Camry Timing Belt + Waterpump + Oil Seal Change 5S-FE (GEN3) - Part 2 Part 2......Click on the link below to go to Part 1 of this procedure....... http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=264425 ¸ 40. Clamp the oil pump pulley in a vice. Remove the nut, then the pulley...

www.toyotanation.com

The DIY section:

Official Gen 3 and 4 Camry / Gen 1 Solara DIY and...

For Gen 3 & 4 Camry owners who want to do-it-yourself with regular maintenance, repairs, and modifications, listed below are links that may provide the help you need. It would also be a good idea for any person doing DIY work to purchase a Haynes or Chilton manual that will answer most any...

www.toyotanation.com

 

I don't have a part number for the spring. Looking on an online Toyota dealer catalog, it may be 90507-17003 (searching on 99 Camry LE 2.2 5SFE). However, the accurate way to tell is to give a dealer your VIN number. It's about $3.50 plus shipping, so locally it's going be a bit more but cheap enough to get a new one. Besides, the picture on the web catalog is wrong. LOL

Fel-Pro has always worked for me and are my first, go-to seals. No problems. In fact I had more problems with Victor Reinz, but others experienced just the opposite. So I guess it's a toss up which one you pick. Of course, you can look on McGeorge Toyota (or other online dealers) and get OE oil seals.

Valve Train Components for 1999 Toyota Camry | Toyota Parts|Toyota Online Parts

parts.mcgeorgetoyota.com

Also, this discussion on the different springs may help, and based on the discussion, the silver one with the stronger tension should be the correct one. This makes sense as Toyota was having problems with timing belt knocking loose under the cover.

5s-fe timing belt tension spring, 2 different kinds?

I have read that there are two types of timing belt tension springs for the 4 cylinder 5f-se engine out there. An original one and an updated one. They have a different number of coils and I assume a different length. The FSM only mentions a green or silver color difference each with a Free...

www.toyotanation.com

Thanks.

I don't have a part number for the spring. Looking on an online Toyota dealer catalog, it may be 90507-17003 (searching on 99 Camry LE 2.2 5SFE). However, the accurate way to tell is to give a dealer your VIN number. It's about $3.50 plus shipping, so locally it's going be a bit more but cheap enough to get a new one. Besides, the picture on the web catalog is wrong. LOL

BTW, the Amazon seals you listed are Fel-Pro! You need to lube the rotating seals on install. OE ones from the dealer come with dabs of greases from the factory. Sometimes they smear all over the plastic bag however. LOL

Fel-Pro has always worked for me and are my first, go-to seals. No problems. In fact I had more problems with Victor Reinz, but others experienced just the opposite. So I guess it's a toss up which one you pick. Of course, you can look on McGeorge Toyota (or other online dealers) and get OE oil seals.

Valve Train Components for 1999 Toyota Camry | Toyota Parts|Toyota Online Parts

parts.mcgeorgetoyota.com

Also, this discussion on the different springs may help, and based on the discussion, the silver one with the stronger tension should be the correct one. This makes sense as Toyota was having problems with timing belt knocking loose under the cover.

5s-fe timing belt tension spring, 2 different kinds?

I have read that there are two types of timing belt tension springs for the 4 cylinder 5f-se engine out there. An original one and an updated one. They have a different number of coils and I assume a different length. The FSM only mentions a green or silver color difference each with a Free...

www.toyotanation.com

BTW, in the DIY section you might have seen already:

Part 1: Timing Belt and Oil Seals Replacement (w/ Pictures)

Part 1: Timing Belt and Oil Seals Replacement 5S-FE (w/ Pictures) Car: 1996 Camry, 4 cyl., 5SFE, Auto Trans., 191000 miles Project: Timing Belt and Oil Seals Replacement Hey Everyone I recently changed my timing belt and the oil seals: camshaft, crankshaft, and the two oil pump housing...

www.toyotanation.com

Part 2: Timing Belt and Oil Seals Replacement (w/ Pictures)

Part 2: Timing Belt and Oil Seals Replacement 5S-FE (w/ Pictures) **************************************************** Continued from Part 1 --> http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/4003328-post1.html **************************************************** ====== PART 2 ======= I washed everything...

www.toyotanation.com

My Timing Belt Job (Pics) 56k go away

I decided to do a timing belt job on my '00 camry. It has 91,000km on it and the schedule maintenance factory sticker says replace every 100,000km. I felt bored so I decided to do it early. Here are the parts I bought in advance: Timing Belt S$45 Timing Bearing #1 S$25 Timing Bearing #2 S$30...

www.toyotanation.com

DIY: GEN3 Timing Belt + Waterpump + Oil Seal Change - Part 1

DIY: 1996 Camry Timing Belt + Waterpump + Oil Seal Change 5S-FE (GEN3) - Part 1 Part 1.... I completed this procedure at 203,000 km on my 1996 Camry 2.2L Auto (5S-FE Engine) . The timing belt, drive belts, water pump, idler and tensioner had previously been changed at 103,000 km. The cost of...

www.toyotanation.com

DIY: GEN3 Timing Belt + Waterpump + Oil Seal Change - Part 2

DIY: 1996 Camry Timing Belt + Waterpump + Oil Seal Change 5S-FE (GEN3) - Part 2 Part 2......Click on the link below to go to Part 1 of this procedure....... http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=264425 ¸ 40. Clamp the oil pump pulley in a vice. Remove the nut, then the pulley...

www.toyotanation.com

The DIY section:

Official Gen 3 and 4 Camry / Gen 1 Solara DIY and...

For Gen 3 & 4 Camry owners who want to do-it-yourself with regular maintenance, repairs, and modifications, listed below are links that may provide the help you need. It would also be a good idea for any person doing DIY work to purchase a Haynes or Chilton manual that will answer most any...

www.toyotanation.com

Thanks for all your help. I was looking around and i found a timing belt that came with springs from Ac delco

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B004JB056K/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_fabc_UoIQFbDX8VYDP?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Are they as good as aisin or comparable?

 

AC Delco IMO is usually an overpriced reboxer, even if in this case it's cheaper and may be rebranded Gates (identical pictures). I'd just get the Aisin kit and get the spring from the local dealer because you're having problems with the engine right now.

Besides, the color of the springs in the Delco and Gates kits are different (gold/silver instead of silver/green??). The gold one in the Delco/Gates kit may be the 46 mm, and the silver one in the Delco/Gates kit may be the 50 mm by the looks of them.

Even if the correct spring is already in your 99, just get a new one from the dealer and replace it given the timing belt flutter problems Toyota was having around that time.

P.S. The Aisin kit comes with Koyo bearings, Aisin water pump and a timing belt made by Mitsuboshi. So three different OEM manufacturers. So you're getting all OEM parts with the Aisin kit.

(I personally prefer Gates belts and hoses, but not their water pumps. So it doesn't make sense to get a Gates belt kit (TCK199) plus an Aisin pump with housing (WPTK010 ) as you'll pay more than the Aisin kit. LOL)