Here is a good one for a 6th gen Camry 6 speed. It's basically the same transmission. There are some differences such where the transmission fluid hoses connect and there may be some panel changes. But you can get the idea of how to do it. This procedure is well written and has lots of pictures.

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...1-diy-2007-2011-v6-2010-2011-i4-camry-6-speed-auto-transmission-flush-pics.html

 

Thanks for your note. I thought I replied to this message, but it then disappeared.
Anyway, I am looking for two things for the I4 trans U760e:

1. Which hose is the ATF return hose to the transmission?
2. How much ATF comes out when car is cold and engine not running when you drain the oil from pan by removing the filler tube (red plastic straw thingy)?

Thanks,

 

write about the process Thanks.

Here's a link to the E-X-A-C-T Toyota procedures on doing a drain and fill and fluid leveling.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/60imu89ri78sft8/ATF DRAIN & FILL & LEVELING - CAMRY U760E.pdf?dl=0

This "mini-manual" gives you the option to do a simple drain and fill and replace the fluid by measuring what came out. (If you have good reason to trust that it was accurately filled in the first place). AND then shows the exact procedure to adjust the fluid level via the overflow method which is what we have to use with our U760E transmissions in the Camry.

Here's a link to my "Partial Drain Helper" which is a spreadsheet that shows you how much effectiveness you've had with each drain and fill. I have it prefilled with total transmission volume of 6.5L. You simply need to know how much (in L) you drained and replaced. The computer then crunches the percents for you.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9cx8qu99qpkdr0u/Partial Drain Helper.xlsx?dl=0http://

 

Looks to me like Toyota is having some failures after servicing these transmissions and have come up with a Rub Goldberg way get the fluid level correct. See PDF http://www.4shared.com/office/p8Ot0GA9ba/T-SB-0036-13.html

The only way I can see we could change the fluid ourselves would be a long process. Drain some fluid. Allow said fluid to reach room temp if not already. Measure fluid drained, measure new room temp fluid to match and add new fluid to transmission. Repeat the above until you start thinking your in the movie ground hog day. If the fluid level was correct from the factory and it may not have been, lets say it was and you happen to replace the exact amount of fluid removed every time you are good to go. If not, I do not want to think about it. IMO Toyota F'd up big time, give me a f'ing dipstick!

Bill

 

Thanks for the mini manual. I called around a few dealers in upstate ny area, atf ws is now at about 10 dollars a quart. Anyone know a better online place?

 

being reading the mini-manual carefully. below are some thoughts and questions:

1. On the drain/fill (aka replacement), no questions, just a thought, since no level check is involved, we can raise the front of the car to drain more from the pan. The pan can not be drained completely, there would be a good amount remaining by removing both the plug and the straw;

2. On the ATF temperature/level adjustment: The principle is really to keep the oil level at a proper temp range by overflowing the excess amount. 35-45 deg-C is the temp range, which means there is a low/high level, which is the same as on all autotrans. that's all good. But I am simply confused by the hocus pocus of moving the shift lever *with* the Techstream ( i understand that needs to be done without the Techstream). If one has Techstream and can see the ATF temperature directly from the laptop, isn't it all we need? Can we just observe the ATF temp from Techstream, and make sure it overflows in the 35-45 deg-C range and be done? Am I missing anything?

Thanks,

 

RESPONSE

#1 . In theory tilting the car would get more out but looking at the design and the space behind the drain.... it wouldn't be much. If you do tilt the car, based on the pan.... tilt it from the passenger front to push fluid to rear driver side corner of the pan. But when jacking front passenger side to do this, beware to have a fantastic protection such as a slotted hockey puck on your pinch weld or it WILL bend.
In this picture (taken from a service bulletin) of the pan you can see what I mean. You can also see, as an aside, the four magnets that are supposed to be put into the pan and probably should have been there from the factory to collect material flying off the clutch packs from the now infamous shudder" issue.




#2 I too was initially confused by the shifter "game" when using the Techstream. I then came to realize perhaps that even with the techstream they have you do it to ensure a second data point of reference for you the mechanic. The teschstream or laptop may also go to sleep, which is sadly fairly common.

And unfortunately, the U760E is finicky about fluid levels. And don't forget the =/- 1 degree of tilt if you do the temperature overflow fluid level adjustment.

 

You have the right idea. Moving the shift lever would be required if the transmission or oil system were opened and needed air purged. Otherwise it may help distribute heat as well as oil.

I would be tempted to use an IR temperature sensor on the bottom of the pan. The oil is most likely a little warmer than the pan, so putting in the plug when the pan temperature is at the low end of the range should be ok. Although it may not be a good idea to do this in low ambient temperatures.

In essence setting the oil level with a straw is like a dip stick with one mark, that is valid only in a narrow temperature range. Can't imagine this transmission is any more fussy about oil level than dip stick transmissions, this is just what happens when there is no dip stick.

 

Where do you get the idea the fluid level is fussy, just because the level setting procedure is finicky?

Somewhere in this or the RAV4 board, there is a graph showing fluid level with change in temperature. It looks like there is about 6 oz. difference between the minimum and maximum fill temperatures.

Anti tamper and contamination is most likely the reason car manufactures use this bottom up fluid level set - check. They don't like paying warranty for a transmisions that have been grossly overfilled with whatever oil is handy etc.

Magnets in the pan can retain only so much iron and steel debis. Some if these particles are small enough to go through the transmission filter. Once a magnet has a debri accumulation, oil flow, especially cold oil, tends to drag fine particles off the magnet, the stuff that looks like black mud. To minimize the amount of magnetic debri in the oil, the magnets should be periodically cleaned, or add magnets so they don't have to be cleaned so often. A healthy transmission or engine will produce less magnetic debri as it ages, until something happens. The old ZF 4-18 transmission was considered to be unreliable unless periodic oil drains and magnet cleaning was done.

Engineers have worked for decades to obtain smooth shifts, balancing clutch material, oil formulation, and clutch configuration for the best results under as many conditions as possible. With electronics some fancy things can be done clutches, but having smooth engagement still is a challenge especially when unexpected changes occur. Hopefully the shuddering was not caused by an intentional change, ie cost reduction.

 

To minimize the amount of magnetic debri in the oil, the magnets should be periodically cleaned, or add magnets so they don't have to be cleaned so often.

Or just stick a bunch of powerful button magnets to the outside bottom of the pan. They're cheap at hardware stores and online at places like Amazon. Then the whole bottom of the pan will be magnetized [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Super-Strong-Neodymium-Craft-Magnets/dp/B001ANVAHI/ref=sr_1_1/176-9519122-8963410?ie=UTF8&qid=1422334105&sr=8-1&keywords=button+magnets[/ame]

 

It is too bad that some of the Camry owners are having TC issues. I am not as worried since Toyota gave me a 8 year 160K mile warranty on the TC. I do believe the problem is real but not everyone is affected. As far as the transmission fluid change goes, I am just going to replace the exact amount that was taken out every 30K miles. The fluid amount appears to be around 2.8 to 2.9 Qt.

 

I'm planning on doing my first tranny fluid change around 75-80K and most likely would pay to a dealer to do a complete flash.

 

You fellas better ask to actually see that they are using that Rube Goldberg gizmo above and that someone who knows how to use it is doing the work because my bet is that even if that device is in the drawer.... the tall 22year old mechanic with the bearing grease on his pant leg (about to be on your door pillar) is going to get r done in 15 minutes while enjoying a few led zeppelin tunes on the radio and will never ever have read the newest procedure, yet be concerned about 10kpa of mysterious vacuum and the service manager (who came from the Buick dealer 3months ago) doesn't know any different either.

 

I have a lifetime power train through southeastern toyota when I purchased my car so if they screw it up they will be fixing it, no matter how many miles is on it. ?
I also go to church with a chief toyota tech dude that teaches working on Toyotas now. He used to work at my local dealer before teaching and says that the guys that does that part of the work are actually good here.

 

Tpence, give that man a hug. He's a rare breed.

 

Yeah he is a great guy. If he had the tools I would see if he wants to do it himself, but getting his approval is still good enough for me.

 

Sure I will see what I can find out. It may be a few weeks but I will post back here with what I find out.

 

I would be interested to know as well. Its quite a saga with the Torque converter issue.

The shudder has happened for years in the Camry even the generation prior as well. back then Toyota's official remedy was a three times drain and fill on the ATF. Then they went silent on the issue for some time during which some folks would get the three times drain and fill and some would just get "unable to reproduce problem" depending upon the dealer.

Then Toyota went to a software fix. And then they went to a software fix, torque converter tear-out and extra magnets in the pan. Quite a "telling" sign.

One interesting aspect of all of this is that , unlike other TSB or recalls, Toyota has never describe (even to dealers) the actual physical flaw or software for that matter in any detail. Similar situations such as the common "HVAC water leak onto the airbag computer" get actual descriptions of the physical flaws in the TSB write-up. No such thing in this case with the torque converter.

Word on the actual physical problem is coming out that the "vanes" were made to an inappropriate or changed spec from Toyota and there was miscommunication between the two companies leading to tens of thousands of these units being put in in ignorant bliss at the factory. Once the train was rolling , they just kept putting in the pieces.

 

I have a V6 and I'd like to know what's different on V6 model transmissions. My understanding is that they're very similar transmissions, yet the V6 models aren't included in the TSBs or recalls.

 

UPDATE:

Since this new procedure to apply vacuum of 3psi to the fill plug and have a rube Goldberg gizmo hanging from the drain plug started in FEB of 2013....
LINK to the actual updated dealer PROCEDURE>>>> .
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oatjuqxmrpvenad/NEW - Toyota U760E Transmission ATF Level Check.pdf?dl=0

I did a "Canvass" and call dealers across the country to get a "sample" of what any given customer would get actually performed at a Toyota dealer. I spoke to a tech who is certified to do transmission replacement and fills. I specifically mention the vacuum procedure and SST (special service tool).

Here's my results so far. Makes me CRINGE.

THEY DONT REALLY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

Dealer #1 Springfield Ill. - "Yeah on those sealed units we use the overflow tube at temperature, no vacuum or other device... never heard of it."

Dealer #2 Peoria Ill - "Those are sealed and we don't reccommend a change of fluid unless the transmission has had a failure and we have to do it."

Dealer #3 Scottsdale AZ - "We have a machine that does it with the push of one button." I then reiterated that I wasn't talking about a flush, rather a fluid level set procedure. His reply, "I told you that the machine does it on its own."

Dealer #4 Joplin , MO - "Some guys here use the vacuum procedure or else you might have a few extra drips com out the overflow tube. "but I'm not sure anything was wrong with the old procedure."

Dealer #5 - Haines City , FL - "Nooo, we just use the original instructions from 2011 or so "simple-not so simple"....overflow tube procedure, the original method. We don't even have on hand the Special Service Tools for that vacuum procedure from the 2013 TSB. Pfft!"

TOYOTA National: She wouldn't give me a tech team. She said that the dealer was the one who knows the procedures. I explained that the dealers are not in agreement on the procedure either using the original factory designed plastic fill level "drip tube" that comes installed in the ATF pan versus the "newer" Feb of 2013 Rube Goldberg vacuum draw and big metal tube type gizmo. She repeated that the dealer knows and became agitated. The New Jersey really came out in her voice when I told her there was conflicting statements on procedure.

Dealer #6 - Eugene, OR - "We use the scan tool method, we don't hang any big stuff on the car, LOL" (implying the original factory method of drizzle out the plastic overflow tube)

Dealer #7 - Mankato, MN - "LOL, we just take the temp up to 176 (which is not in accordance with EITHER of Toyota's written directions) and let her overflow out the tube, the original way.

Dealer #8 - Iowa City, IA - "The only one we use is the more complex device (Rube Goldberg newer method)... I think we do it because its easier than the old way but its a lot more gear to use"


Dealer #9 - Greely, CO - THIS DUDE KNEW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT - He says, "We use BOTH methods actually... and us techs like the older method of course because no use of the SST (Rube Goldberg device). If a car is cool and we can get it in the bay below 113F trans temps, then we use the original method via the plastic overflow tube built into the pan, if it's hot when it rolls in we use the big device because that allows for a higher temp when we do the job. It applies a vacuum of sorts so that it doesn't overflow out the factory plastic overflow tube which is designed for a lower temp and less expanded fluid. The vacuum temporarily holds back the fluid (into the filter and passages) and allows us to insert the larger device with the taller overflow tube quickly for use with the more expanded (hotter)fluid. So in total the newer procedure is because dealers were putting cars through too quickly and were sending them out under filled."

 

The vacuum prevents excessive hot transmission oil from running out when the hot test fixture is installed or removed. Without the vacuum, a stream of hot oil would be running out of the drain plug hole from when the test fixture is removed and the drain plug is installed. 190 degree oil can cause 3rd degree burns and who knows how much oil ran out.
Even though the transmission cooler - heater warms the transmission, it may be difficult to keep the transmission temperature within spec. While doing a hot level check.

Don't expect the service writer to know what their shop does. Even if they do their primary function is sell service, so they spew misinformation and/or fraudulent words to mislead, or intimidate custermers into spending more.

 

Right on Robert, they are patching a flawed process.

And I woulda thought they'd just give the dealer a longer plastic over flow tube for the higher temp. , something like a "blue tube" versus the lower temp "orange tube" or some lil system like that. Lol

I think the poorly specd and built torque converter is an even bigger issue.

Once he knew that I wasn't Dom DeLouise ...the Colorado tech said that...and I quote... He said,"Once you've had a shudder problem for a short while you basically WILL have the torque converter blow. The software update for the torque converter lockup selenoid characteristics is a patch that will save some torque converters but the shuddering ones are likely dead men walking".

He sounded like they'd have ALOT gutting transmissions from 2011-2014 in their careers soon.

 

from what I read you adjust the level with the engine running right?

 

Here's the at home procedure from Toyota.... oh and as a special treat....Toyota wants you to keep it less than 1 stinking degree off of perfect level.


LINK >>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/60imu89ri78sft8/ATF DRAIN & FILL & LEVELING - CAMRY U760E.pdf?dl=0




And here is the way the dealer is to do it because they were sending our units under filled because a car is usually hot when it comes in and they didn't take the time to wait for them to cool down to the proper temp. It's a huge Rube Goldberg machine. Ridiculous really.


LINK >>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/oatjuqxmrpvenad/NEW - Toyota U760E Transmission ATF Level Check.pdf?dl=0

 

Most commercial lifts are very close to level. So a tech only has to be concerned about what is between the lift and car.
It appears measuring car level is up for grabs unless someone comes up with a factory method. The radiator support across the top of the radiator should be faily close for lateral level. Fore-aft is more of an issue, the frame rails welded to the bottom of the floor should be fairly close for both fore-aft and lateral. They give a nice span to minimize contact errors and should be ok for measuring if only the straight portions are used.
Trying to measure from the drain plug is iffy since it is small and subject to contact errors. Also the plug may not be that square with the rest of the car due to design and/or manufacturing specs, let alone road damage.

 

Your comments on the leaving are thought provoking and vey well put.
I agree that the top radiator member would be good for side to side leveling.
But the rails might not be good because the ride height is different from front to rear so the rails are actually designed to not be level. I think the pan itself is the best bet because the level tube is in the pan.

 

As I recall, the bottom of the pan is not all that flat, it has been sculptured for noise control or some other the reason. Unless proven otherwise the pan may not be level with the car. In the end, just eye balling the level may be good enough.

 

Look here.... extra magnets they add after your toque converter tears itself apart, such sweethearts they are.

NOW GET A KICK OUTTA THIS! The dealers who are dipping their toes into the process of gutting the transmissions of our new Camrys likely aren't even using the correct fill tools because there is NO dipstick and the updated TSB has been overlooked by 9 of 10 I have called.

And this is the Rube Goldberg device that the dealer, who encounters cars hot (above 113F), must use. Note how it hangs from the drain plug hole and bottom of pan as "leveling surface". Side note... today 2-15-15 another TN member posted that their tranny was low after the torque converter shudder replacement of the torque converter unit. The dealers aren't even using the special service tools (Rube Goldberg device) that they are supposed to since the TSB for the new dealer fill equipment came out about a year and a half ago. LOL but actually... very sad.

 

Stumbled upon your post. I go to Haines city to get tech stream things done and my go to technician is usually extremely knowledgable. Any chance you got their name?

 

That works, except if a magnet moves it upsets the particles and let's some escape. Used to do that on engine oil filters, you could see where the magnet had been, but there wasn't much in the way of particles to be seen, just some smudges.
Wonder if a magnet in the drain plug would do much. When the transmission is cold the plug could be removed to see what it caught. Not likely much, since there is very little oil flow there. Then again, if a magnet was long enough to extended above the plastic level tube it might catch something. Although it would be subject oil slopping around and washing particles off.
My experience with ZF transmision magnets is they initially trapped a fair amount of magnetic sludge particles (more like black mud). With each successive 15K cleaning, there would be less accumulation. The mud accumulation at the initial 15K cleaning was considerably more than at 105K. Indicating that cleaning the magnets frequently at low miles would be a good idea.
Where I worked (heavy duty off highway transmissions) they were concerned about small hard particles imbeding in soft shaft and clutch seals, which then would become abrasive causing accelerated wear. ZF apparently had similair issues since the 4HP18 transmissions could have long lives if the oil was changed periodically. Their magnet was in a small drain - filter cover, easy to get off and clean.

 

I have a few small flat magnets from older HDD and they are so strong that I have to use a small screw driver to pill them off the metal, so movement wont be an issue.

 

Inspecting and cleaning transmission pan and magnets

The object for removing the transmission oil pan is to head off possible shudder issues by inspecting and cleaning the magnets and oil pan, plus adding 2 magnets and ~3 1/2 quarts of new oil.

Setting the transmission oil level using the gear selector and dash display, wasn't that big of deal. Started by using a 18" bubble level to check car level, sideways on the bottom of the front valance, there is a flat area just behind the front edge, and fore-aft on the front door sill. Didn't try to get it perfect, just so the bubble was within the lines.

Removing the left bottom valence or cover is straight forward, found using a sharpened small forked nail pry bar worked best removing the push pins. Careful, they break easily. There is a push pin behind the left front wheel well liner, the liner has to be curled back to get to it.

One oil pan bolt is hidden behind the frame rail and required a 10 mm combination wrench to turn it. Two pan screws at the rear are sealed, the sealing material makes them harder to turn out, remember to reseal them when putting them back in, they are the only screws holes that open into the transmission.

Drained and measured 3 1/2 quarts of oil. The pan was relatively clean and free of debris. The magnets had a fair coating of magnetic mud but no chunks. Adding 2 magnets appears to be a good idea, since they can hold only so much. Installed a new gasket and added 4 quarts for setting the level, although 3 3/4 quarts would have been enough. Used a long flexible extension that screws onto a oil bottle to add oil.

To perform the level check procedure, carefully place a 20 gauge (~ .030" diameter maximum) solid copper wire jumper between contacts 4 and 13 of the OBD II connector. This tells the engine ECU to enter a test mode when the shift lever is rapidly moved between Neutral and Drive.

Before starting the procedure, apply the service brakes and start the engine (all kinds of lights will flash on the dash) slowly move the gear selector through all gears to circulate oil in the transmission, then move the lever rapidly between Neutral and Drive, when the test mode is entered the dash range display will show a steady "D" for a couple seconds, once that happens place the range selector in Park, and the dash range indication should go blank. To finish entering the test mode remove the jumper wire, the dash lights and engine speed should settle down.

Once in the transmission oil level test mode, wait for the transmission to warm up and until the dash range display shows "D", the setting temperature range. They don't tell you that the radiator fans will come on when "D" shows up. Apparently they are trying to keep the transmission oil from heating up too fast, as the engine temperature stayed at ~ 150 degrees for the duration of level setting procedure.

With the "D" showing and fans running, remove the drain plug and let oil run out until it just dribbles. Put the plug in, turn off the engine, and you are done, except for putting it back together.

Total drained oil was a tad more than 4 qts, which means the oil level was a bit high to begin with, ended up a bit low, or measuring in an oil jug was not so great.

Have a couple pictures of the original factory fill used oil and the magnets, but can't post pictures for some reason. The used oil with 15K miles was a very deep almost opaque red, much darker than new oil.

This certainately isn't like pulling a dipstick, but once the car is level the procedure moves along fairly easily.

 

I plan to avoid the need to remove the pan by adding 10 powerful button magnets to the EXTERIOR of the pan [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Neodymium-Magnets-inch-Disc-N48/dp/B001KV38ES/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1427778858&sr=8-2&keywords=button+magnets[/ame] so that the entire bottom of the pan will be magnetized and serve as one giant oil filter that never needs cleaning.

 

I plan to avoid the need to remove the pan by adding 10 powerful button magnets to the EXTERIOR of the pan http://www.amazon.com/Neodymium-Mag.../dp/B001KV38ES/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1427778858&sr=8-2&keywords=button+magnets so that the entire bottom of the pan will be magnetized and serve as one giant oil filter that never needs cleaning.

I've slapped 4 HDD flat magnets on my tranny pan a few days back and covered them with HT grease to prevent the corrosion. Will see if it would help.
Also, I spoke to two service advisers about the shudder ans soft update and while one said that the soft update has to be done or tranny would fail no matter if you have the shudder or don't, while the other one said that the shudder is very limited issue and the soft update is just a precaution and unless you have the shudder yo don't have to worry about it.

 

RobertN, see if can a few pics, they might be very helpful to others: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/63-highlander-hybrid/317883-how-post-pictures.html

 

The transmission oil pan measures .053" or 1.33mm at the edge.

The pan acts like a short for the magnetic field. The factory magnets appear to have their poles on the face or large flat side of the magnet.

Just a thought, to get magnets in the pan without dropping it, small diameter cylindrical or spherical magnets could be fed up through the level setting straw and allowed to settle where they may. There is a very small chance they would go anywhere let alone get through the filter. Don't know if there is enough clearance above the straw to get a magnets in.

 

The pan acts like a short for the magnetic field.

INDEED!

spherical magnets could be fed up through the level setting straw and allowed to settle where they may.

GENIUS! Now, anybody willing to try?
It's about a 6mm hole in the tube, just pop them up and over the top and they'll land safely.





OR WOULD THEY FLY UPWARDS AND ATTACH TO THE VALVE BODY OR A SELENOID! EESH! OPINIONS????