Wow, where did you find a '98 with less than 60K!? They are not trying to rip you off. I'm currently in the process of replacing the water pump and decided to do the timing belt for similar reasons. The timing belt is what drives the water pump on these, which means you have to loosen the timing belt and re-time the engine when changing the water pump. That means it's just as difficult to do either job, so to avoid paying the same cost as you would for the timing belt replacement when the water pump goes out in the future it's a very good idea to have them replace the water pump while they're at it.

 

Several months ago I changed the timing belt and leaking seals on my brother's car and he did not want the water pump changed. It would have taken another 45-60 minutes to change the water pump,thermostat, and coolant, but he didn't want to spend the money. About 5-6 months later the water pump seized and left him stranded. That extra 45 minutes instead turned into about 4 more hours, a second new timing belt, and a few days without his car.

The mechanic will either make a little more money off of you now, or a lot more latter on. You could save yourself some money and just do it yourself. This site has a few great guides on the matter.

John

 

Yes,

borwish and DCCCD are correct. Upon changing the Timing Belt, the Water Pump is directly in your face.

Last year on my 92 Toyota Camry LE (4 cylinder). I changed my Timing Belt along with the Water Pump, Main Seal, Drive Belt, Tensioner Pulley, Idler Pulley, etc. Everything but the Engine and Oil pump was replaced.

I know you may not want to spend the extra funds but, it would be worth it. You never know when that water pump will decide to give out. If you can do it yourself, it would be a lot cheaper. I did the work myself for about $150 - $200.

Good Luck

 

Thank you very much for your replies.


DCCCD: I bought the 1998 Toyota in 1998, when it was brand new.


borwish: You mentioned changing the water pump, coolant, and *thermostat*. When the drive belt, timing belt, water pump, and coolant are replaced, will the thermostat replacement be included in all of that? Or will that be a separate charge that I should request separately?

None of the repair shops have mentioned anything about a thermostat.

 

The independent shop offered good advice. What the dealer did was to allow the chance of charging you again and again for digging back under the timing cover to change out the pump, and the pulleys, and the oil seals, etc. Oil pump o-ring and seal are another common leak area for example.

A complete timing belt job can include:
GATES K030295 Micro-V AT Power Steering Belt $9.76
GATES K050433 Micro-V AT Alt/AC Belt $13.16
FEL-PRO TCS45920 Crankshaft Front Seal Set $4.96 (w/ oil pump o-ring)
FEL-PRO TCS45641 Camshaft Front Seal $3.59
NATIONAL 221820 Polyacrylate Oil Pump Shaft Seal $2.77
GATES TCK199 (1 Belt, 1 Tensioner, 1 Idler) Timing Belt Component Kit
$53.79
STANT 48278 180° w/Jiggle Pin OE Type Thermostat $10.56
AISIN WPT010 Water pump w/o housing $30.79
FEL-PRO VS50304R1 Valve Cover Gasket Set w/Spark plug tube seals
$18.26
Subtotal about $148
Shipping about $20

The semi-circular plugs and the distributor plug (you have coils but this cylinder head is an old design ) should be resealed. You can also add radiator hoses (I prefer Gates), NGK Iridium-IX plugs and wires, etc.

BTW, I wouldn't use any cheap thermostat out there. Make sure it has a jiggle valve, or just get a Toyota one or the Stant I mentioned.

Haggle out a "package deal" so they don't nickel and dime you later.

You mentioned changing the water pump, coolant, and *thermostat*. When the drive belt, timing belt, water pump, and coolant are replaced, will the thermostat replacement be included in all of that? Or will that be a separate charge that I should request separately?

None of the repair shops have mentioned anything about a thermostat.

 

The thermostat is cheap and quick to replace, but you have to drain the radiator to do it. It's another one of those "since you're already in there" things.

It's not needed and if money is tight you can skip it or do it yourself. All you have to do if I recall correctly is to drain the radiator through it's stopcock, take two 10mm nuts off of two studs and the thermostat housing pulls right off and the thermostat is just sitting there. Pull out the old, slide in the new, place the housing back, put the two nuts back, and pour the coolant back into the radiator. You usually have to buy a new o-ring for the thermostat since most seem to not come with one. It's just a few bucks total.

 

My timing belt is overdue as well and I recently changed the coolant because of a leak, maybe I should still do the waterpump and t-stat, either by re-using the coolant (filter it?) or buy another jug of it...

 

If the coolant isnt old just drain the rad and then filter it through a old panty hose. Works great.

 

Now that I think about it, if they are going to change the o-ring between the water pump housing and the engine they'll have to either remove the thermostat housing or disconnect the radiator hose from it. They should have the thermostat exposed anyway, so it'd be just a few seconds to pull out the old and push in the new .

 

Should we replace the water pump housing as well? What do your guys think?

Should have bought the kit with the water pump...the Goodyear was $55, the Dayco with the water pump is only $5 more :facepalm:

 

I replaced two bad water pumps. On one it was going bad and making a racket. The housing on it was fine. The other one had seized. The inside of the housing was a little scratched up. I just sanded off a few raised burrs and it was fine. Unless you think the housing is cracked, warped, or some other way damaged I personally don't see a need to change it.

 

One time I didn't replace the water pump when I did a timing belt. It was a Honda Accord, 4 cylinder. I felt the pump, and there was a nice drag from the seal, the weep hole had dust in it, so I decided to save the customer $50 and not do the pump.

They were back in a week with a leaky water pump. We had to go back in and re-do the job and just charged them for the price of the water pump and coolant.

Never again will I replace a timing belt and not the water pump (when it is driven by the timing belt).

 

The main thing is that the rubber parts- whether belts, o-rings, seals, have aged. The coolant anti corrosion chemicals should be replaced as well.

 

Then doing a timing belt on a Toyota, I always do the water pump, cam seals, crank seal, and often idler pulley/tensioner.

Here is the best kit for yuor car:
AISIN Part # TKT002 Engine Timing Belt Kit with Water Pump
Kit Contains Water Pump With Housing

The parts in the kit are make by the same manufactures that make them for Toyota. Often, it is the EXACT same part just put in a different box (The water pumps usually have the word TOYOTA ground off so that the OEM manufacture can sell them as aftermarket)

With that kit, you would still need to buy the cam/crank seals.

 

Ok, look at it this way. Duralast (AutoZone) alternators and starters have a lifetime warente. Toyota does now. Do you know how many Duralast parts I have replaced that have gone bad for both myself and my friends? Warente does now have any bearing on quality. And the warentee doesn;t pay for the labor if the part fails.

 

If I buy the AISIN water pump, are all the gaskets included or do I need to purchase them separately?
If included, any extra ones to get?

 

Look at it this way. If you buy the Aisin pump without housing you won't be too far off from the $88.79 Aisin kit. Goodyear is one of Toyota's OEM supplier for drive belts anyway.

The WPT010 should have the housing-to-block o-ring, the o-ring and gasket for the two metal pipes and the inlet/thermostat seal as well as the large metal-rubber water pump gasket, all for $30.79+shipping and use the 5% discount code.

You should remove the housing and replace those o-rings and gasket. Make sure the housing to block o-ring doesn't fall out when you install it back. One member recently had to buy a new o-ring because of that.

Yeah, as ASG14 said, junk with lifetime warranty is still junk, but wouldn't those brands go out of business selling junk? It does make me wonder how Cardone or those supplying Autozone as mentioned stay in business .

 

The gaskets needed for the WATER PUMP ITSELF should be included with the water pump.

 

Did the math and my Goodyear timing belt kit w/o water pump ($55) + even the cheapest water pump ($45 shipped) would end up costing more than if I paid for return shipping ($20), get $50 credit and buy a complete kit w/water pump ($120-140 shipped).
I guess I will go ahead and ship it back

Now the thermostat...the stant/gates OE exact is not available from same warehouse as the asin kits, I can locally get a motorad with jiggle pin (214-180JV) for about $15 or I can get the Beck/Arnley 1430654 from RA for $7.5, would it fit the bill?
I've seen the MotoRad included in the "OEM" timing kits sold on ebay and were labelled Kuzeh/MotoRad (Made in Israel/Germany)

A OEM Kuzeh runs for $30 on ebay shipped which is a little steep vs aftermarket

 

When you say a complete kit do you mean one of the Ebay kits? Or an Aisin timing belt and pump kit? Kuzeh is stamped onto the OEM thermostat. Don't know MotoRad. Haven't heard of it except from Ebay.

Also re-check the $9.97 (all prices USD) Gates 33997 besides the $10.27 Stant 48278 for 5SFE. I'm seeing they ship from the same warehouse to Montreal postal code (randomly: H3C 6M9). I know Toyota dealers have a fat profit margin, but is it faster and cheaper overall just to pick it up locally otherwise?

One interesting thing about rockauto shipping is that sometimes they ship from different warehouses for the same things. I found that pricing out parts.

No way is this $3.77 MotoRad OEM. It looks like the el cheapos that I wouldn't recommend.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=3952923&cc=1364633

The Beck Arnley has a jiggle valve but a cheap looking heat motor like MotoRad:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=481811&cc=1364633

Also price out the shipping for the $9.97 Gates 33997 OE Exact with gasket:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1145481&cc=1364633

A quick check shows:

About $55 shipped for both the Gates thermostat and Aisin WPT010 pump (w/o housing). So the total would be $110 for both the $55 Goodyear kit and the OEM Aisin pump and Gates thermostat, including $14.30 shipping.

Or return the Goodyear kit and then pay $125 for both the Aisin TKT003 (timing kit with pump) and the Gates thermostat. So a total of $150 ($125 + $25 extra for shipping back and restocking), including $26.33 shipping.

 

I bought a Beck Arnley thermostat. It was a reboxed MotoRad. Could be different now.

 

I detest Motorad. I've had several comebacks directly because of a crappy Motorad thermostat.
Genuine Toyota is the way to go.

 

Here's the Beck Arnley boxed thermostat for anyone curious, Made in brazil by MTE-Thomson
The jiggle valve looks very filmsy but including the gasket is a nice touch

 

I'm sure that would work. I do prefer the Stant and Gates OE Exact thermostats with beefier springs.

 

I've gotten a MotoRad (Made in Israel) for comparison, worth paying $15 for it or return it?







Beck Arnley :





More Copper+SS to be found compared to mostly bronze+SS, main spring appears weaker but secondary spring is beefier
Deflared copper lip vs bronze "rivet"+stainless stopper setup
Smaller secondary/(bypass?) valve

 

Return it. Motorad never looked OEM to me.

So you went and bought both the Beck Arnley and Motorad? Rockauto has three Motorads from $3.77 to $6.61. That Beck Arnley one looks flimsy to me.

How about either Stant 48278 ($10.25) or Gates 33997 ($8.50) for the 4-cyl from rockauto? I'd get either this Stant or Gates depending on shipping to your location.