I am in the middle of a Gen 3 brake pad and rotor replacement. I have a question regarding the sliding pins on the caliper. these are the pins that hold the active portion of the caliper to the caliper mounting bracket.

It was recommended on the forum to remove and grease these with high temperature grease. Reference forum: http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=163537


What is the function of these pins?
How do they reinstall? there is a nut that you have to keep from moving, when you remove the bolt. Is there any special alignment or depth, or other requirement that I will get into if I remove the pins for regressing?
Why is regressing important?
Is any high temp grease allowed?


In another part of the job, I am replacing wheel studs, as some broke off during removal. I might need to seat these all the way prior to putting on the wheel. Problem is they hub rotates (both wheels off). Any way to keep the hub from rotating while trying to torque the heck out of these?

Thanks,
Ted

The pins are necessary for the caliper to slide on. This way when you apply the brakes, the caliper will automatically center itself on the rotor, and the pads will wear evenly. If there is crud on the pins and they don't allow the caliper to move side to side, you will get uneven pad wear.

There is no alignment or nuts on the pins. They are flange bolts and are threaded into the caliper in a blind hole. You just clean the pins, the holes that they slide into the caliper and torque to 60 ft/lbs, IIRC.

You can get hi-temp grease at Autozone in little packets for about a dollar. There are many opinions on the correct grease but I've always used the stuff in the packets, and it seems to work OK. Others will comment on the grease thing, I'm sure.

An impact wrench is the easiest way to install the studs. If you don't have one, you will have to jam a breaker bar in between the studs that are left in the hub, set it against the ground to keep the hub from rotating and put the stud in the hub, and using one of the old lug nuts turned around so the flat side is against the hub, tighten it until the flat part of the wheel stud bottoms out against the back of the hub.

Let us know how it turns out.


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no 60ft-lbs on slide pin! it will break.

front caliper slide pins torque is 25ft-lbs (bracket bolts to knuckle 80ft-lbs)
rear caliper slide pins torque is 14ft-lbs (bracket bolts to carrier 34ft-lbs).

 

Oops, sorry about the mis-information about the torque specs :facepalm:

Thanks for posting the correct information.

Hmmm, now I wonder where I got 59 ft/lbs from. Must be something I did recently.


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OK. I found that using a crow bar against the ground and other studs to provide counter force will damage the threads, so I decided to put the wheel back on (with the caliper hanging).
The wheel is enabling me to turn the lug nuts on the studs. Problem is, I took my torque wrench to one of the lug nuts and the nut starts to turn at around 140 foot pounds. Is this OK? I would think this would damage the studs, and the reason, I think the studs broke in the first place is a mechanic I used over torqued the lug nuts. I am just repeating? do these need to be pressed on?

Thanks,
Ted

 

140 lb/ft is high. Normal torque should fully seat the stud. This is front wheel hub right? When installing tap the stud so the serrated portion gets caught by the hub. If the nut starts to turn like it's loose then check the stud and the nut. You may have to replace both and check the hub.

Have a helper step on the brakes or rig your own pedal depressor (concrete block or a wooden stick pushed by the front seat).

Costco tire shop uses torque wrenches so the wheel studs last just about forever.

 

^ rear wheel hub assembly mounting bolts? they call for 59ft-lbs

 

140ft-lbs????

it takes 80-100ft-lbs to seat the stud... at 140 it might have damaged the hub and that's why it spins (broken splines or so)?

 

^ +1.

Yeah, if it's the serrated part of the stud that's damaged then it's easy $2 fix. Or if the nut/stud threads are damaged they are still cheap. But if the hub is worn, then maybe a cheap fix is JB Weld? Otherwise it can get expensive to replace the hub.

 

Point of clarification. The spinning hub should be normal. The car is lifted off the ground, and both wheels, brake calipers, and brake rotors are removed. There is nothing to stop the rotation, and brakes will not help. When you try to turn a nut, it naturally tries to turn the hub, so counter force is required.

I am thinking I got bad parts from the auto parts store. I will purchase Toyota parts, and try the other wheel. If easier, then the auto parts store items are bad.

Are the studs different front to rear wheels? I am sure I have swapped nuts between wheels. But the parts store asks if it is for front or rear.

What I am hearing is that 140 foot pounds is not normal. Thanks!

 

Are the studs different front to rear wheels? I am sure I have swapped nuts between wheels. But the parts store asks if it is for front or rear.

What I am hearing is that 140 foot pounds is not normal. Thanks!

Yep, the studs are different lengths for the front and the rear. When I replaced mine I just got the longer ones for both the front and the rears.

What possible reason could there be for having the rear studs 37mm and the front ones 40mm. (??)

You will also notice that the rears have a knurl diameter of 14.22mm and the front ones 14.20mm. What possible reason could there be for that (??) I just ordered a box of the longer ones, with the smaller knurl diamater. So that's why the parts guys are asking front or rear. The pic below is what Dorman has for my car.

BTW, I agree that 140 ft/lbs is way too much. The only reason I say this, is because I used an electric impact wrench to replace all of mine, and it won't generate anything near 140 ft/lbs.Most likely you have the wrong part, and are having to force it.

You might be trying to force a 14.22 knurl diameter where it should be a 14.20. The longer front wheel studs, have a smaller knurl diameter, so you could use them both front and rear. I don't know what harm, if any, using a smaller knurl would have. So far, I've had no problems, but your's might be different. So check the part numbers carefully to be sure you get the right ones. These are for a 2000 1mz, and your's might be different. But double check.

http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy154/akalian_01/wheel_stud.jpg


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I think you are overcomplicating it.

with front hubs it would be TONS easier if you had only one corner jacked up :facepalm: and trans in Parking gear...

I used Dorman front studs from autozone on wife's 5s-fe (front hub) after local shop cracked one stud and it broke on me later when loosening it.

I just put the wheel one and caught the stud with nut (4 others snug) and lowered the car to ground then applied 100ft-lbs to that new stud, loosened and then tightened to proper 77ft-lbs (alloys wheels). it's all good since then and it's been like 2 years.

 

What ever happened to using the ol' hammer.:facepalm:

 

That's how I got the studs out. Put a nut on the stud and whacked it with a 3lb hammer. But to install them I did something a bit different.

One day I was at the local flea market, and saw this clamp thing laying in a box and took a look at it. It was pretty stout, and looked like it needed a new home. I asked the guy what it was, and he just shrugged his shoulders and said he didn't know what it was. NBD, neither did I. :lol:

But, since he only wanted $5.00 for it, I bought it, and took it home where it sat for, well, a long time.

When I decided to replace my wheel studs I took one look at that clamp and decided to adapt it to solve the problem of how to replace the studs that were knocked out with a hammer.

So I found a piece of 3/8" scrap steel, cut and shaped it to go around the end of the clamp. Then I found a bolt that would fit inside the hole in the threaded part of the screw. And there you have it. A homemade wheel stud installer.

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to remove the stud I used a home repair hammer and 1/2'' dr extension which fits nicely in the stud bore, one bang and done.
to install I just torque it down on the wheel and done.

you guys are seriously overcomplicating it ...

 

Thanks for all the input. I pulled the other wheel off because I was waiting on parts and wanted to keep the project moving. My mistake. Next time, it will be one wheel at a time.

Lessons learned to date:
Do one wheel at a time
Don't use a crow bar against threads for any reason

I will add to these as I move forward (like molasses in a NY winter).

 

Update:
I purchased 5 Toyota wheel studs for $6.75 each.
I put some lubricant on the hub where they slide in
I got an assistant who professes to know most everything auto (my 10 year old daughter)
The new studs seated with probably 30 to 50 foot pounds of torque. I could almost hold the hub with my foot to keep it from rotating. When they seated, I could feel it.

Compared to the $1.99 studs purchased from O'Reilly Auto Parts, I think the Toyota studs are a deal. O'Reilly gave me the wrong studs, or they were out of tolerance. When first purchasing, I compared the new studs to the old. Same length and dimensions. I was unaware of the knurls though, and upon reinspection, there appears to be a difference (but not measurable) to the new Toyota studs.

Lessons learned:
Do one wheel at a time
Don't use a crow bar against threads for any reason
Studs come in different knurl patterns and O'Reilly parts may be out of tolerance so check closely (same goes for the other auto stores as they sell the same Dorman brand)
Use some lubricant on the seats
The torque required to seat new studs is very low
Use an acorn nut turned flat side to the hub to pull the studs seated
When seated, you will feel it
The caliper bracket bolts are large 17mm head bolts

I have the satisfaction of knowing that my brakes and wheels will hold together enough to not run into the Toyota dealer in his new Tundra pulling his new motor boat!!

 

:thumbsup:

Dorman (front) stud from local Autozone worked for me no problems. I didn't use grease to seat it, just torqued it down while installing wheel back on (first to 100ft-lbs then loosened and torqued down to alloy wheel specs 77ft-lbs).

 

o reilleys

I had a bad experience with parts at the new o reillys a few months back in Charleston south carolina- they tried to sell me a new coil pack, and you could tell from the scratches in the paint around the two screw holes that it had been installed before. The counter man said after i pointed that out- Gee it must be a return, we should not be selling it- and tossed it under the counter- but a few weeks later the same coil pack was back in the same box on the shelf ready for sale .
o reillys may be a second tier parts house- but i dont know who is in the first pier- probably not NAPA - they are very heavily chinese stuff now

 

seems like their boat has just started sinking ... :thumbsdow
similar down hill movement the Moog company (re-boxer of once reputable parts) is in ...

I had a bad experience with parts at the new o reillys a few months back in Charleston south carolina- they tried to sell me a new coil pack, and you could tell from the scratches in the paint around the two screw holes that it had been installed before. The counter man said after i pointed that out- Gee it must be a return, we should not be selling it- and tossed it under the counter- but a few weeks later the same coil pack was back in the same box on the shelf ready for sale .
o reillys may be a second tier parts house- but i dont know who is in the first pier- probably not NAPA - they are very heavily chinese stuff now

 

That is why I only buy oils, cleaners etc from parts stores. I did buy two ribbed tensioners, and a $75 double sided serp. belt for my old van because I got fed up with the belt slipping and squealing. The brand was Gates I think.

 

once I had a problem with calipers:
pins were cleaned and regressed but calipers didn't slide easily.
they were sliding fine by hands once or twice and than were getting almost stock, sliding only if I would apply some force.
if I would pull rubber slide covers/grommets and let some air go inside they would slide easy couple times again and than stock again.

I didn't figure out what was wrong and put everything together. brakes work fine up to date , still don't know if some kind ventilation valve or hole were blocked (if they exist).

any comments?

 

the slide pin dust boots are a known troublemaker if they are old.

I have just replaced them all around in 4 corners of V6 and it makes a hell of a difference. new ones do not bind the slide pins (old ones did, some terribly, some others slightly).

I am planning to replace the slide pin dust boots on also on wife's 5s-fe front calipers.

actually the front ones are more prone to seizing the bolts as they have an inner grommet sitting quite tight around slide pin. if that rubber got deteriorated or swollen (e.g. if anyone used brake parts cleaner in bracket hole and left some spray residue upon installation) they will tend to seize calipers and cause brake pads to gently touch the rotors all the time.

 

^ +1

Yeah, many just spray brake cleaner on rubber parts and that's a no-no. Use alcohol to clean rubber parts or they swell up (petroleum solvents break the bonds between (synthetic?) rubber molecules).

I'd change out all rubber dust boots, you can clean the bore with brake cleaner, but make sure it's completely dry or you'll wind up with the same. Use Permatex Ceramic Extreme Grease. I'd even skip using the anchor bin rubber bushing (keep them around and decide later if you need to install them). I don't know who came up with this stupid design.

 

We use 3m Silicone Paste for the slide pins, works pretty good.

 

in Southern states yes, silicone is fine, but don't be surprised if you take a long trip to North in Winter and find your calipers binding or hard to move in morning, because of frozen grease

silicone is good down to -20F (or let's say 0F with some real life margin of error).
In NJ Winter I even had trouble with Permatex Ultra (good down to like -40F) even at -5F.

Only Permatex Ceramic seems to work right in below freezing, and besides can withstand thousands of F degrees of some heavy duty (e.g. race track) heat from friction

 

On the boots, how do they bind? Aren't they just rubber?

I was taught to clean all the old grease with a shop rag only.

 

rubber stretches easily with age and heat & cold phases, the longer the exposure the more deterioration.

add to this some cleaners or solvents (!) used by some local shops to make things look nice for you and you find rubber boots thick and stiff ... and binding the slide pins.