Saw it at Seattle auto show, sadly they locked the car so can‘t really get a good feel of the interior. It’s pretty ’chunky’ in person, not in a bad way.

 

My feeling is that with so many hybrids to choose from in the Toyota lineup, the Crown gets less appealing in the shuffle. New Prius going to be out too, it wouldn't be as expensive. I doubt many wanting a RAV4 or Highlander Hybrid will jump to this. Most current Avalon owners aren't feeling it...it will also occupy the spot of trying to poach Lexus ES buyers too.

 

 

The most disappointing cars of 2022 - Autoblog

Worst cars? That might be too harsh, but these cars and SUVs certainly fell short of expectations

www.autoblog.com

2023 Toyota Crown
News Editor Joel Stocksdale: I still don't understand this car. I've driven it pretty thoroughly, I've talked with the man in charge of it. I just don't get it. It's tall and crossover-like, but it has no real additional ground clearance. It's effectively the flagship for Toyota cars, but it has a less impressive interior than the Avalon it replaces. It's a lot more expensive, too. The top trim with its fancy hybrid system is pretty good to drive, but if you're looking for things that are fun, you've got more fun options from other automakers (albeit less efficient). The base powertrain is especially efficient, but it's also available in stuff sporting a Lexus badge, which simply carries more cachet than Crown in the U.S. In fact, that high-output powertrain is also available in a Lexus, and it's a Lexus crossover that's more practical and more popular. I just don't know who this car is for, and even for that person, I'm not sure it's their best option. I'm hoping the promised plug-in hybrid makes a little more sense, emphasis on "little."

 

Pfft... It doesn't have the class or character of ANY generation of Avalon. I'll wager ToMoCo is going to scrap this ill-advised project within 10 years.

I have no idea what's going on with the quasi-Corolla front end and extra ground clearance as if it might do an appreciable degree of urban off roading or something. Don't even get me started on the paint scheme.

Rental car fleets rejoice...your savior has arrived!

 

The Crown doesn't have significantly higher ground clearance and isn't marketed that way at all. What it does have is increased ride height for easier entry and exit. This is a huge deal, especially for older people. I liked the Avalon, but the latest generation was way too low to the ground, and the front end on the Crown is significantly less obnoxious than the giant grill on the Avalon. TBH, the Avalon looked a lot less impressive in real life compared to pictures. I always got it confused with the Camry.

 

For the price, the Crown Platinum Hybrid, compared to our Highlander Platinum Hybrid at the same dollar amount, I am disappointed.

No HUD
No Auto-Leveling headlights
No rear seat HVAC controls
No power trunk lift
No retracting sun roof
etc., etc.

They have seriously de-contented this vehicle, especially to be designated the "Platinum" level. Hey, possibly they have budgeted an appreciable portion of the price for warranty claims, especially in regard to the unproven 6-speed transmission cooperatively developed by three entities, and the adaptive suspension system.

Being in our early 80's, I really wanted to like it, especially the ingress/egress height, but the negatives outweigh the positives at this point in time.

 

The price would be totally out of control if they packed every gizmo and feature into the car along with the Hybrid Max powertrain. This is essentially the same powertrain in the RX 500h F Sport which sells for close to $70k. The base model Crown will still outperform the Highlander hybrid in most aspects of real world driving, including mpgs.

 

The jury is out on the Crown until it is available to the public to test drive and we receive reports from people who buy it and report on their experience with it. However, it is obvious that the Crown will not be appealing to people who prefer SUVs or hatchbacks, nor to those who think the price is too high. I think the price is about right relative to other cars in today's market.

 

The Crown's price is too high, period. And combined with weird design, cheap interior (based on what I've heard from a Toyota manager and online reviews) the Crown will be a very narrow niche model attracting very "extravagant" buyers. Imo the Crown will repeat the fate of the Crosstour.

The frontal/grill design and side swoosh are going to be difficult for this elderly person to digest. I confess to not being very progressive when it comes to styling. However, I AM progressive when it comes to technology and drivetrain, hence the Platinum would be my clear choice. Wish the tranny had a few years under it's belt.

Maybe. I'm 45 and see absolutely nothing attractive about the Crown.

 

I've seen a Crown on the road next to Toyota HQ. I'm not in love with the gen 5 Avy look nor gen 8 Camry, but compared to the Crown both of them look modern and stylish. The Crown looks weird and awkward...

 

The frontal/grill design and side swoosh are going to be difficult for this elderly person to digest. I confess to not being very progressive when it comes to styling. However, I AM progressive when it comes to technology and drivetrain, hence the Platinum would be my clear choice. Wish the tranny had a few years under it's belt.

 

Just to jump into the price discussion, I am always amazed at how prices are moving in all the lineups Toyota offers. I am 51, and very distinctly recall walking in the mall in my hometown when I was around 14-17 or so and marveling at the Honda CRXs they had parked in there with sales signs, and wondering how in the HELL anyone could ever afford something that was $12,000 or so. Now I look at the price of these Toyotas, or the Ram 2500 I want, and wonder how in the HELL anyone could ever afford a $75,000 vehicle (lol). When I start seeing the price for some of these Toyotas I think they better do something amazing to get me to buy one at that price.

 

One thing I noticed that will probably kill the Crown for me, is how pricey sedans are to insure versus a comparably priced CUV. The Crown is completely new, so rates aren’t available yet. However, checking the rates for an Avalon and ES, they are consistently $50-$100 extra per month versus a Venza or NX. Obviously insurance is determined by numerous factors, and maybe it’s just me, but it makes the sedan compromise versus a CUV even less compelling. Even an RX 350 is barely more expensive to insure over my CX-5.

 

I think it's just you My 2019 Avalon Limited V6 is $464 a year (all 12 months, total difference is $74, or less than $7 a month), for complete coverage, compared to the wife's 2019 Hyundai CUV, which is $390 for the year, identical coverage on both, and the difference (IMO) is more attributable to the value of the vehicles than the form factor. Insurance company is American Family, and just renewed 12/16/22.

 

Have no idea who they're trying to attract as customer base,

It's looks like the whole front grill section is falling out of the car.

And if my 2013 Avalon Limited sat on the stealership lot for a whole year when new.
I can just imagine how many of these they'll sell.
But if you want a car that nobody else around has it's probably made for you

And YES the Avalon Limited costs a pretty penny to insure. Never let emotions control your financial decisions

 

Now I remember what that front grill looks like... Bubba's lip in Forrest Gump

 

I saw the Crown yesterday at the Washington, DC Auto Show. It was a preproduction model and was locked so you couldn't get in. It was a platinum in the red and black two-tone paint. I like the exterior. It looks much better in person than in pictures; looks masculine and powerful. Even the two-tone paint looked good, although I think I would go with a single color. The interior looks good also, but the true test of sitting in the seats was not possible.

The good surprise of the show for me was the Venza. It was very comfortable and is high on my purchase list if the Crown doesn't pass our seat of pants test. The Highlander also had very good seats but is a larger vehicle than we want or need.

The two bad surprises of the show were the 2023 Lexus RX and LS 500. The Venza seats actually felt more comfortable to me than the RX seats and the whole car actually felt more Lexus-like than the RX. The LS 500 is an absolute non-select. It had so little headroom that when I adjusted the driver seat to my driving position my head was only about two inches away from the top of the windshield and almost touching the roof. Just not enough headroom in that car. I can see why it does not sell. For $90,000+, I expect a lot more.

 

The good surprise of the show for me was the Venza. It was very comfortable and is high on my purchase list if the Crown doesn't pass our seat of pants test. The Highlander also had very good seats but is a larger vehicle than we want or need.

I have a '21 Venza, which was my second choice after my '21 Highlander Hybrid purchase fell through. I didn't need the 3 rows of the Highlander, but wanted something a little nicer than the RAV4. The Venza has ample power, 41 MPG, and a premium cabin. The '23 is even better with the digital dash and the new infotainment system.

Looking forward to seeing a Crown in person. It is missing some of the features on the Venza like the HUD and power tilt wheel, which is interesting given the price of the Crown Limited and Platinum relative to the Venza Limited.

 

Interesting... We've considered a Venza, but even 45-47K "Limited" models felt cheaper inside than my gen 4 Avy and previous Gen RX.
Fake leather all over the interior, so-so plastics, artificial sounding stereo and weak sound insulation for such price tag...

 

Interesting... We've considered a Venza, but even 45-47K "Limited" models felt cheaper inside than my gen 4 Avy and previous Gen RX.
Fake leather all over the interior, so-so plastics, artificial sounding stereo and weak sound insulation for such price tag...

Not sure I would compare a Venza with an RX. The venza is a good car, but comparing it with the very successful Lexus RX is maybe a bridge too far. I have driven both.

 

The exterior of the Crown makes me think it looks like a lifted Corolla.

 

Lifted and bloated Corolla.

 

I drove one yesterday XLE and was favorably impressed. It was quiet, roomy and had enough power. Would have bought it but no memory seat ( I have mobility issues).

 

I drove one yesterday XLE and was favorably impressed. It was quiet...

Quiet compared to what?

 

With MSRP's that can exceed $50k, all the more ammo for me to go the BMW route for just a little more.

 

If Toyota and Lexus have those higher MSRP's. BMW may also be above that as well, and a BMW will not have the same high level of reliability as Toyota/Lexus.

 

You can look at the top trim of any vehicle and say it isn't a good value. The XLE and Limited are in the low to high 40's which is par for the course for a new vehicle these days. There are many RAV4s and 4Runners being sold for over $40k.

 

You can look at the top trim of any vehicle and say it isn't a good value. The XLE and Limited are in the low to high 40's which is basically part for the course for a new vehicle these days. There are many RAV4s and 4Runners being sold for over $40k.

Absolutely correct. One cannot really find a vehicle worth driving now for less than 40K, sometimes upper 30K for mark downs.

 

Agreed...They don't have the Toyota heritage but the 3 series gets good reliability marks and I think I would like to experience the drive.

In a couple of years.....maybe....

 

You will enjoy the drive, no doubt. Life is too short not to do things we dream of doing.

 

I didn’t realize these would be available in America. That sure is one ugly car though lol. And it specs 0W-8 oil. Might as well pour water in it haha. Not impressed. I’m a simple guy. Even something as little as push button start is a deal breaker for me.

 

^ of course, especially when it comes to the entry level so called "luxury" Germans.
I've owned a few Audis and 325i and was planning to replace an Avalon with something "foreign" and almost pulled the trigger on an A6, but decided that I'm not old enough yet to own another German car..

 

^ of course, especially when it comes to the entry level so called "luxury" Germans.
I've owned a few Audis and 325i and was planning to replace an Avalon with something "foreign" and almost pulled the trigger on an A6, but decided that I'm not old enough yet to own another German car..

Have you considered an ES350?

 

Haven driven the crown several times can say it’s more comfortable than the es and most cars and sitting 4 inches higher than a car without being in an suv has benefits. It’s quite the package of tech also.

 

The Crown is bigger than I thought it would be ( saw one in person the other day) but misses the mark in appearance. IMHO

 

The Crown is bigger than I thought it would ( saw one in person the other day) but misses the mark in appearance. IMHO

It's bigger outside, but smaller inside, kind of like the current Camry.

 

Coming from a 2019 Avalon Limited, I'll chime in with my actual ownership findings.
Some of the positives:
Aside from the 340 HP, is the Active Cornering Assist feature of the suspension system. Taking a curve at speed feels more controlled.
The seating tends to feel more captive like in a sports car seat, not as flat as the Avalon. This may not be everyone's choice but I like it.
I like the added height, it's more like entering an suv.
USB charging ports are now USB3.0.
The Qi charging actually works on my phone.
The large 12.3" infotainment screen and not being forced to divide it into 2 or 3 windows.
Rain sensing wipers.
The center console opens from either side.
The auto parking, either parallel, straight, or angled. Just touch the auto park button and pick the space on the infotainment screen.
Some of the negatives:
Steering wheel tilt and telescoping is not powered like the Avalon. This is a "set it and forget it" for me anyway.
No Heads Up Display, also not a must have for me.
The infotainment system, you have options to turn on and off features but defaults must be made in the Toyota app. Setting North to always be up is not a default option currently. I don't like to see the screen rotate with every turn I make. You have to manually set it each time you restart the car.
Android Auto is confusing to me. I like it but the audio likes to default to some weird podcast about the spice "paprika" at startup. I don't have any podcasts set on my phone. I thought I had found a setting in AA to turn that off but no dice. Any advice is welcome.
The transmission shifter is on the console and does not have physical positions for park, drive, reverse, etc. The shifter is just pushed forward or backward to change. Park is a button press. This is all fine by me but you push it forward for reverse and pull it back for drive (I feel that's backwards).
I'm on the fence about the new cloud navigation system. It has some very desirable features (like "real time" map updates, traffic, & road construction) but is a subscription service. I've got 12 months to decide to keep it or not.
There's more likes and dislikes but I gotta run. Will edit later.

 

I just purchased a 2023 Crown XLE and traded in my 2012 Avalon limited. There is a few thinks I miss but over all like the Crown. What’s up with having to pay for navigation subscription and only one key fob. They told us about the fob after we told that we would buy the car. They promised to get one. Can I believe them?

 

All Crowns ship with one key fobs right now- I think they have only gotten one fob ever since the car was released last year- all due to the chip shortage.

There should have been a warning sticker on the rear passenger window on the driver's side that alerted you to the key fob situation. Some dealers are shady- so they peel off the sticker even though it specifically says that the consumer is the one that should be the one that removes the sticker.

It might be a few months before they will be able to give you a second fob. Somewhere there's a timetable that lists the models and the anticipated month that the second key fob will become available. Generally, Toyota will send you a message through the Toyota app that you installed on your phone alerting you to the fact that you can visit your dealer to pick up the fob. If I remember correctly, they should have included the physical metal key that slides into the second fob with the key that you were given when you took delivery of the vehicle.

In terms of navigation, all new Toyotas that use the newest infotainment software come with a year of free cloud navigation and the 'hey Toyota' assistant. After a year, I think you lose access to the assistant and the maps no longer will give you live traffic or updates unless you pay for the subscription. If you don't want to pay for the subscription, you can use Google maps via wireless Apple Carplay/Android Auto and it doesn't cost a penny.

I think the last generation Avalon and most other newer Toyotas- even the ones that use the last-generation infotainment system- require a subscription for map updates after the free trial. Most carmakers have gone this route over the past few years. There is a cost involved in keeping the maps updated- and Toyota and other carmakers pass that cost onto the consumer in the form of a subscription. If you 2012 Avalon had navigation, odds are you had to update the maps by visiting the dealer- and paying a fee that usually ran $100-200 each year- if you decided to upgrade it every year. Now the updates are over-the-air and Toyota charges a monthly subscription for it.

On a new Crown- you get
1 year of Drive Connect- which is cloud navigation and the 'hey Toyota' assistant.
1 year of Remote Connect- which allows you to lock/unlock, and remote your car through the Toyota app.
10 years of Service Connect- which provides service information and car info through the Toyota app.
10 years of Safety Connect- which includes the SOS button functionality, stolen vehicle locator, and automatic collision notification. (Airbags deploy=automatic call to see if you are okay)
30 days and 3GB of Wifi Connect- which allows you to turn your car into a wifi hotspot through the ATT network.

After the free trials, you have to pay to maintain those services if you want them. Toyota offers three different options for subscriptions once the trials run out:
Music Lover- includes Remote Connect: $15/month- unlimited streaming of your Amazon Music and Apple Music as well as the ability to lock/unlock/remote start your car via the Toyota app.
Go Anywhere- includes Remote Connect: $15/month- Cloud navigation and 'hey Toyota' assistant as well as the ability to lock/unlock/remote start your car via the Toyota app.
Premium- $25/month: Includes everything that's in the Music Lover and Go Anywhere subscriptions
Wifi Connect- available for an extra $15/month when you get any other subscription.

There's no requirement that you pay for these services and you are free to allow the subscriptions to lapse once the free trials run out, just like people could still drive their Toyotas with navigation ten years ago without paying for the map updates. While I personally like Toyota's new navigation interface, Google Maps or Apple Maps work just as good (if not better) and don't cost a penny.