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EFI Relay/Circuit Opening Relay - Crank No Start 1999

9.5K views 19 replies 4 participants last post by  Girohead  
#1 ·
Hello fellow corolla owners, I have a serious question needing a serious answer.

I replaced the sock on the fuel pump assembly yesterday, and the car started up fine immediately afterwards. Thinking I was in the clear, I shut it off, put everything away, and went about my business. I woke up this morning and was heading out, but the car would crank and crank, but no start. I tested the coils, battery, battery cable connections, grounds, etc. to no avail.

Since it's so easy to get to the fuel pump connector, I figured it was worth a shot. I turned the key to ON, grabbed my voltmeter, and probed the blue/black wire for power at the pump connector: no dice. Following the wire up to the Circuit Opening Relay under the dashboard, I unplugged it and tested it, and it works fine. However, no power to the relay when key ON. Moving under the hood, I tried the EFI relay; it works fine, and is getting power with key ON. What gives?

Is it possible that there's a break in the circuit in the <24" of wire between the underhood fuse panel and the underdashboard panel? I really don't want to tear that dash apart looking for it. Could it be as simple as "power doesn't get to the Circuit Opening Relay with key ON, but rather only with key START"? I'm incredibly frustrated and need to get to work in the morning. Any suggestions? Please address the relay questions before any advice on actually diagnosing the crank/no start condition, there seems to be an acute lack of information on this everywhere I've looked.
 
#2 ·
The fuel pump will not get power with just the key ON. The engine needs to be running, and computer needs to see that from crank/cam sensor and/or spark, then the computer activates the circuit opening relay. This is how the circuit opening relay works as a safety measure. You wouldn't want the fuel pump to continuously run after an accident that cut the fuel line.

The circuit opening relay will also activate when the key is in START position when you are cranking the engine, so you can test for power at the fuel pump connector with key turned to START.
 
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#3 ·
Thank you for your response. I went out and checked that power got to the pump with key START, and it did. I also applied battery voltage to the pump and it worked. Still no start though. Plugs are wet. I don't understand, it worked fine yesterday! It was about 20 degrees Fahrenheit when I tried to start it this morning, but still nothing after noon when it was nearly 40 out. Any ideas?
 
#4 ·
Update: since it seems fuel is getting up there, my next test is spark. Power and ground to both coils, both coils have resistances within spec. The Haynes manual said to connect an LED test light to one of the pins on the coil connector, crank the engine, and look for a signal light (indicating spark). I had a steady enough voltage to light the test light weakly when not cranking, and cranking didn't do anything. I'm thinking this could be a bad crankshaft sensor or camshaft sensor, but I don't know exactly how to remove them. Anybody know?
 
#5 ·
Does the check engine light come on when you first turn the key to ON? Can you communicate with the computer with an OBD2 reader?
 
#6 ·
Yes to both.

Connecting my OBD2 scanner, I was able to (while cranking the engine) get an RPM reading of ~250 RPM, which seems about right for a cranking starter. If the computer is getting RPM data, then the crankshaft sensor is probably okay, right?

I spent a good while perusing this forum thread and will try pulling connectors on various sensors (the three listed in the forum were the TPS, MAP, and VPS on canister) to check for appropriate signals. I really don't want to pay for a tow truck to get my car from my apartment, but I feel like I'm all out of options and would rather defer the headache to somebody who has tools to diagnose it.
 
#9 ·
Found the problem! Just posting in case it helps people later. So, three of the main things needed to start a car (among other things): air, fuel, and spark. In my case, fuel checked out. Though it was hard to tell, spark checked out too. It seems hard for air to be the problem, but it was my only remaining option. I heard of luck unplugging some engine sensors and pushing the pedal down, so I tried that method and unplugged the MAP sensor. Started right up!

Now, before assuming the MAP sensor was faulty, I thought a bit ahead and checked the OBD2 port. Luckily I was able to plug the MAP sensor back in and check the reading: barely 4 psi at idle. So, I immediately thought "vacuum leak" and boy was I right. One of the fuel injector seals was leaking air very badly, I could hear it from 5 feet away. I removed the injector and unfortunately for me the plastic cap on the nozzle disintegrated, so I had to order a new injector for $50 in order to get it tomorrow. I'll make one last post when I get it all put back together if it works. See pics of old seal!
 
#10 ·
Are you sure that's not just a rubber grommet that has hardened over time? Toyota uses a grommet and/or o-ring on each end. I hope the injector you ordered came with these parts.
 
#11 ·
You are correct, the pics are of the grommet, which initially failed. The o-rings were fine but I replaced them and the seals on all the others anyway (with some vaseline so they don't tear). I was planning to replace them on the last injector (the one that caused the problem) but there's a black plastic end cap onto which the grommet sits. It fell apart, and no new ones are available for that - it's integral to the injector, naturally. Without it, the vacuum leak would be several times worse at best, not to mention a fuel leak. The injector on the way should have them, but even if not I have a leftover set.
 
#12 ·
I just had the same thing happen except the car still ran. I pulled out the fuel rail and all three of those grommets were missing. I didn't even know they were supposed to be there untill I installed the new 0-ring kit!
 
#14 ·
Oops I meant all 4. I guess it had just formed a seal somehow after being in place so long. Of course when I put it back together I had a fuel leak, and it was a holiday AND the local stores were out of stock so I missed a day of work. When I got the kit and saw threw items I went and checked the manual and sure enough, there is supposed to be a grommet between the upper and lower seals. IDK I'm not a mechanic, I'm just a humble photocopier tech.
 
#17 ·
Status update: Seals and new injector went on great, no leaks (vacuum or fuel). Still difficult at best to start unless I unplug the MAP sensor. Now I start digging again, but at least I can drive to work now... I did unplug the battery and the monitors have not yet finished running, so perhaps I'm in the clear and just need to drive it a bit. We'll see
 
#18 ·
Keep us posted, I was hoping it was the injector seals, since I thought that was my issue as well. But I don't have a vac leak, but after seeing this so often, I think I'm going to replace all of my injectorr seals as PM. My question all along was if you could have done something inadvertently when you replaced the sock. You said it started up, but you think anything else was just coincident? Could be, but in my case it's usually oversight. You checked voltage and continuity, so you shouldn't have forgotten a wire or had fuse issue...I'm not sure what your initial startup test was (on and off, ten minutes, an hour)? Maybe you forgot the sock clip and it popped off, maybe the pressure regulator got loose, maybe the sock still has a seal? you probably double checked that when you looked again. But, things happen.
 
#19 ·
Ok, so it seems the starting problem is gone for good. Went outside this morning and she started right up! All of the monitors have run except EVAP (which usually takes the longest anyway, and I'm sure it was fine before all this mess). I was a bit worried last night as the fuel trims were exceptionally terrible (STFT nearly 20%, LTFT about 12%) but after driving to work and back today they've nearly zeroed out!

Unfortunately I did get a Check Engine light for P0125 - Insufficient Coolant Temperature. Scanner says temp is spot on, 186 degrees, so might need a new sensor? Does anybody know where the OBD2 port's temperature data comes from? (If it's from the sensor, then the good temp reading suggests it's ok.) Gas mileage qualitatively seems a bit worse, but I don't really have numbers to back that up. The hunt continues!

@Girohead, I made sure the sock went on properly, but I did wiggle the regulator a bit to see if it had a tight seal; maybe I accidentally dislodged it?
 
#20 ·
Ok, so it seems the starting problem is gone for good. Went outside this morning and she started right up! All of the monitors have run except EVAP (which usually takes the longest anyway, and I'm sure it was fine before all this mess). I was a bit worried last night as the fuel trims were exceptionally terrible (STFT nearly 20%, LTFT about 12%) but after driving to work and back today they've nearly zeroed out!

Unfortunately I did get a Check Engine light for P0125 - Insufficient Coolant Temperature. Scanner says temp is spot on, 186 degrees, so might need a new sensor? Does anybody know where the OBD2 port's temperature data comes from? (If it's from the sensor, then the good temp reading suggests it's ok.) Gas mileage qualitatively seems a bit worse, but I don't really have numbers to back that up. The hunt continues!

@Girohead, I made sure the sock went on properly, but I did wiggle the regulator a bit to see if it had a tight seal; maybe I accidentally dislodged it?
That would be worth reviewing, I've seen where they were partly dislodged. I'll let someone else answer about the O2 sensor, but I have a similar situation that throws P0125 but temps read fine, but I was told it was probably the O2 sensor not letting it go into closed loop, not a bad ECT sensor.