[EchoHoLiK]

Have you ever seen one dyno'd? 260hp/240tq is NOT 350/400.

No I haven't, but dyno numbers of its "stock" motor doesn't paint the whole picture, and doesn't reveal its true potential. Anyone can tell you these engines are detuned (quite a lot) for production cars. 100hp/L is easily achievable through some internal upgrades and exhaust and such. The upcoming Lexus IS race car (in ALMS or SCCA GT I believe?) will for sure make at least that much power, if not more. The main difference compared to the production car's engine is that the race one will be very high-revving, which isn't something that is unfamiliar to Toyota's technical knowhow.

 

[TcmaBoy]

No I haven't, but dyno numbers of its "stock" motor doesn't paint the whole picture, and doesn't reveal its true potential. Anyone can tell you these engines are detuned (quite a lot) for production cars. 100hp/L is easily achievable through some internal upgrades and exhaust and such. The upcoming Lexus IS race car (in ALMS or SCCA GT I believe?) will for sure make at least that much power, if not more. The main difference compared to the production car's engine is that the race one will be very high-revving, which isn't something that is unfamiliar to Toyota's technical knowhow.

Apples and oranges.

 

[supra saiyan]

Personally, I hope Toyota never puts out another car under the Supra name. And if they do decide to compete in the $40k-$50k sportscar market, I hope they release it under Lexus.

 

[EchoHoLiK]

Apples and oranges.

Perhaps, but not exactly.

 

[Jeeves]

No I haven't, but dyno numbers of its "stock" motor doesn't paint the whole picture, and doesn't reveal its true potential. Anyone can tell you these engines are detuned (quite a lot) for production cars. 100hp/L is easily achievable through some internal upgrades and exhaust and such. The upcoming Lexus IS race car (in ALMS or SCCA GT I believe?) will for sure make at least that much power, if not more. The main difference compared to the production car's engine is that the race one will be very high-revving, which isn't something that is unfamiliar to Toyota's technical knowhow.

The more parts you have to replace in an engine to make power, the less it is the manufacturer's creation. They also stripped over 800lbs out of the IS350, they also don't have solid numbers yet. They WANT 150hp more out of the enigne (take note, that's also crank hp, not wheel). Hell, if I spent $10,000 on upgrading EVERYTHING in the 7M's engine, I could make buku N/A power too. Am I going to? No.

Go read up, you don't have a clue what they have to do to that enigne to get that kind of power out of it. It's not a simple "Oh, look, replace that bolt and you get 124515 more HP!"

 

[WestCoastff]

think that's the oldest image out there, tell your 'buddy' to get with it.

So sorry Big Mr. Hardass, ill go make sure to tell him right now:hammer:

 

[EchoHoLiK]

The more parts you have to replace in an engine to make power, the less it is the manufacturer's creation. They also stripped over 800lbs out of the IS350, they also don't have solid numbers yet. They WANT 150hp more out of the enigne (take note, that's also crank hp, not wheel). Hell, if I spent $10,000 on upgrading EVERYTHING in the 7M's engine, I could make buku N/A power too. Am I going to? No.

Go read up, you don't have a clue what they have to do to that enigne to get that kind of power out of it. It's not a simple "Oh, look, replace that bolt and you get 124515 more HP!"

1st bold: obviously lots of engine parts are replaced to make more power, hence it'll be a race engine, but it wouldn't be any less of the manufacturer's creation. Unless it's tuned by Edelbrook

2nd bold: that's your choice and it's up to you. But then again we're not talking about your Supra.

3rd bold: The absolute necessity to have a clue is irrelevant, I only need to understand there needs to be lots of modifications to turn a stock engine into a race-tuned one. But if the 3.5L block (2GR-FSE) is to be heavily modified for race use, it'll still be referred to as the 2GR-FSE, and it won't be any less of a 2GR-FSE block. To further illustrate this point without further confusion or misunderstanding, those 3S-GTE blocks inside every Celica and MR2 makes around 240bhp stock, whereas in a racing GT300 MR-S and Celica that block makes 300bhp, while that same block in a GT500 Supra (back in 2002 if I remember correctly) makes 500bhp. But Toyota (and most knowledgeable people) still refers to that engine block as the 3S-GTE, regardless of whether it's a stock block or a heavily modified race-tuned engine.



Look, I wouldn't bother starting a flame war here because frankly, it's quite pointless. If you disagree with my POV, that's fine. Then let's agree to disagree, but there's NO NEED to call me ignorant. If I need to know or learn something, I'll just go ASK JEEVES :lol:

 

[Ne0z31]

toyota has said straight out there will be NO mkv supra... end of discussion basically...

 

[Jeeves]

I do disagree with your point of view.

obviously lots of engine parts are replaced to make more power, hence it'll be a race engine, but it wouldn't be any less of the manufacturer's creation

Actually, every piece you take out makes it less of the manufacturer's creation.

Lastly, One IS350 block tuned to make 450hp n/a, that doesn't exist yet, is hardly proof of an engine's potential. I can say 'I'm tuning my 7M to make 700tq in the future!' but that doesn't mean it's true.

 

[EchoHoLiK]

I do disagree with your point of view.

Actually, every piece you take out makes it less of the manufacturer's creation.

Lastly, One IS350 block tuned to make 450hp n/a, that doesn't exist yet, is hardly proof of an engine's potential. I can say 'I'm tuning my 7M to make 700tq in the future!' but that doesn't mean it's true.

Sure, if you take every piece out, not only is it no longer the manufacturer's creation, it'll also be as useful as a giant paperweight :lol: So before I retire the argument of this pointless nonsense (since we're basically talking in circles), I have to ask again: Are you saying that by taking Toyota parts out of a Toyota engine and to replace those parts with uprated Toyota parts back into that Toyota engine is STILL NOT Toyota's creation? Not trying to knock you, but I really want to understand what you meant by that statement of yours.


And on your 2nd statement, yes such an engine doesn't exist (or doesn't exist yet), but you cannot say it wouldn't have potential even when there's no proof as of now. I can understand that you're a cynic if you'd say there is absolutely no power potential, unless someone were to go ahead and make one that'll shut the faithless up. Unfortunately that person won't be me, but I'm an optimist and I won't be surprised if someone (at TRD or elsewhere) is working on it right now, so only time can tell. Also, I just wanna make myself clear, I've never stated such things as facts, just mere speculations (from careful observation of Toyota's past racing cars and engines). I have no idea where you get the idea (that I was passing along what I said as facts) from.


Regarding your "supposed" tuning of 7M making 700lb/ft, obviously it isn't true because you haven't done it. But why don't we stop talking about your Supra and stick to the topic, okay? Thanks.

 

[EchoHoLiK]

toyota has said straight out there will be NO mkv supra... end of discussion basically...

but then again, Toyota has said lots of things. But I concur that this thread should be locked, since it's once again a case of pointless arguments between "I'm right and you're wrong", where BOTH SIDES CAN NEITHER BE RIGHT OR WRONG.


So, in conclusion:
Let the faithless believe there'll be no new Supra coming out, or whatever equivalent of the Supra.
Let the faithful believe otherwise.

One fact: Lexus LF-A is on its way, which is beyond Supra.

 

[Jeeves]

Sure, if you take every piece out, not only is it no longer the manufacturer's creation, it'll also be as useful as a giant paperweight :lol: So before I retire the argument of this pointless nonsense (since we're basically talking in circles), I have to ask again: Are you saying that by taking Toyota parts out of a Toyota engine and to replace those parts with uprated Toyota parts back into that Toyota engine is STILL NOT Toyota's creation? Not trying to knock you, but I really want to understand what you meant by that statement of yours.


And on your 2nd statement, yes such an engine doesn't exist (or doesn't exist yet), but you cannot say it wouldn't have potential even when there's no proof as of now. I can understand that you're a cynic if you'd say there is absolutely no power potential, unless someone were to go ahead and make one that'll shut the faithless up. Unfortunately that person won't be me, but I'm an optimist and I won't be surprised if someone (at TRD or elsewhere) is working on it right now, so only time can tell. Also, I just wanna make myself clear, I've never stated such things as facts, just mere speculations (from careful observation of Toyota's past racing cars and engines). I have no idea where you get the idea (that I was passing along what I said as facts) from.


Regarding your "supposed" tuning of 7M making 700lb/ft, obviously it isn't true because you haven't done it. But why don't we stop talking about your Supra and stick to the topic, okay? Thanks.

#1. Yes. The more parts I have to replace in my 7M the less it's Toyota's 7M. It becomes, Ross's 7M, Ferra's 7M, ARP's 7M, etc. If all stock internals must be replaced to make power, and the only thing left is the block, I'd say just that. It's not Toyota's 7M anymore, it's their block and their head design.


There's power potential in anything. I've seen Isuzu Impulses make 400hp. Yes, there's potential in the 7M, yes there's potential in the 2GR-FSE. Does that mean it'll make 450 NA? No. That's where cynicism steps in. With any amount of money, someone can make ________ fast. Does that mean it in it's stock form is 'ready' to make asstons of power? No.


As for the LF-A/Lexus/MKV Supras, 95% of these get locked.

 

[bgrieger]

With that, it's locked...