"EB" <ebonakDUH_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eSQYg.2146$IW6.307@trndny01...
> Hi all,
>
> I sent this to our local Toyota dealer:
>
>
> One more quick question. When I looked at the car listing on your site
> I saw these two notations next to the various trim levels: SE and Natl
> can you tell me what these mean?
>
> I got this back:
>
> To be honest with you I am not quite sure what those mean either.
>
>
>
> I believe I have seen these designations elsewhere on other Toyota
> sites. Does anyone know their significance? Just curious.
>
> EB

What kind of vehicle? What state are you in?
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

 

Ray O wrote:
>
> What kind of vehicle? What state are you in?

Ooops .. RAV4 .. Ohio ..

Metro Toyota near Cleveland.

http://www.metrotoyota.com/ou/brookpark-toyota/console.do?page=f_new

if you try to specify a 2007 RAV 4, when you get to the trim selection
you get the SE and Natl show up. The model number differ by one letter,
eg 4430-S vs 4430-N.

Just curious really .. the price seems to be the same. It just seemed
odd the dealer's internet guy wouldn't know.

Lots of knowledgeable people here (like yourself ;-) .. so I thought
I might just ask.

 

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:40:20 GMT, EB <ebonakDUH_@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Ray O wrote:
>>
>> What kind of vehicle? What state are you in?
>
>Ooops .. RAV4 .. Ohio ..
>
>Metro Toyota near Cleveland.

I know a number of people who have bought cars at Metro and have been
very satisfied.

People seem to like Sunnyside too, but not quite as much IMO.

There's also Brunswick Auto Mart. I have not heard good things about
them.

 

"EB" <ebonakDUH_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:EeRYg.4027$5v5.2901@trndny08...
> Ray O wrote:
>>
>> What kind of vehicle? What state are you in?
>
> Ooops .. RAV4 .. Ohio ..
>
> Metro Toyota near Cleveland.
>
> http://www.metrotoyota.com/ou/brookpark-toyota/console.do?page=f_new
>
> if you try to specify a 2007 RAV 4, when you get to the trim selection
> you get the SE and Natl show up. The model number differ by one letter,
> eg 4430-S vs 4430-N.
>

The 4 digit model number, e.g. 4430, is the U.S. model number. There is a
different model number for each body style, trim, engine, and transmission
type. The alpha character after the U.S. model number is called a phase
code and denotes pricing level for that model. It used to be that intro
pricing at the beginning of the model year was always "A", with the first
price increase being "B" and so on. The letters S and N at the beginning of
a model year mean that they are using a different coding system for the
phase code.

The Se and Natl are probably an internal stock designation by the dealership
and not part of Toyota's distribution system.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

> Just curious really .. the price seems to be the same. It just seemed
> odd the dealer's internet guy wouldn't know.
>
> Lots of knowledgeable people here (like yourself ;-) .. so I thought
> I might just ask.
>
>

 

Ray O wrote:
>
> The Se and Natl are probably an internal stock designation by the dealership
> and not part of Toyota's distribution system.

Ah .. ok. Thanks Ray!

 

Cleveland area dealers (was: SE and Natl)

Hi Stuart,

Stuart Krivis wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:40:20 GMT, EB <ebonakDUH_@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Metro Toyota near Cleveland.
>
> I know a number of people who have bought cars at Metro and have been
> very satisfied.

Yes, I have heard that too, though my experience with them via
the internet has not been impressive. Their guy just bombarded my
mailbox with junkmail (6 messages in the first 24 hours) and then
continued to send me irrelevant information about cars I was
not interested in - I had made it very clear I was only looking
at a RAV4, not pickup trucks etc.

> People seem to like Sunnyside too, but not quite as much IMO.

I talked to them on the phone, and they seemed very nice.

Motorcars Toyota on Mayfield Road in Cleveland seems very responsive
too, both on-line and by phone.

> There's also Brunswick Auto Mart. I have not heard good things about
> them.

Yeah, I wasn't impressed, I called them today, and they were not
very friendly or helpful. Told me that 2007 RAV4 hadn't hit the
lots yet .. I guess they were only talking about their own.


I have been dealing mostly with Premier Toyota in Amherst (closest
to Oberlin, where I am) and they have been quite nice so far. Though,
today I was talking to the sales manager and he misrepresented the
truth (I'd like to not say "lied" as I can't recall the exact words
he used, but certainly he implied something false) which put a damper
on my experience so far. This was about the documentation fee, he said
it was a standard required $250 fee that all dealerships were charging
(or required to charge - I don't quite remember)

Of course it only took me 10 minutes to find out that it's entirely
up to the dealer to charge up to $250 (they are not required), and
that all of the $$ goes into their pockets.

Do they really get away with this a lot? I mean it didn't take very
long to find out. Still, what a pain to deal with.


eb

---

http://www.bmv.ohio.gov/dealer_licensing/dlrs_faq.htm


Q21:
How much can a seller entering into a retail installment contract charge
a customer for the preparation of documents?
A21: On June 30, 2006, an amendment to section 1317.07 of the Revised
Code, which governs retail installment contracts, took effect.

That section now provides that a seller entering into a retail
installment contract can charge a fee of up to two hundred fifty dollars
($250) for preparation of documents related to the sale. Previously,
the maximum fee that could be charged for document preparation was one
hundred dollars.

As a result of the amendment, motor vehicle dealers selling motor
vehicles to customers under retail installment contracts can charge the
customer this two hundred fifty dollar document preparation fee in
addition to other fees associated with the sale of the vehicle (taxes,
registration fees, etc.). It is important to note that the dealership
is not required to charge the document preparation fee.

The Department of Public Safety, Bureau of Motor Vehicles did not play
any role in the adoption of the amendment to section 1317.07, and
receives no portion of the document preparation fee. Instead, the fee
is retained by the motor vehicle dealer.

 

Re: Cleveland area dealers (was: SE and Natl)

"EB" <ebonak-a-@t-hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:T7VYg.3385$kG5.1586@trndny07...


> . This was about the documentation fee, he said
> it was a standard required $250 fee that all dealerships were charging
> (or required to charge - I don't quite remember)
>
> Of course it only took me 10 minutes to find out that it's entirely
> up to the dealer to charge up to $250 (they are not required), and
> that all of the $$ goes into their pockets.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
HOLY SH*T ! (yeah, I know, I'm shouting, but I tend to do that when I
become apoplectic!)

That caps it. I would never pay $250 for a dealer's clerk to write up a
sales slip or two!
Last time I had any dealings with a dealer, the doc fee was $45 as I
recall.....and That's
a ripoff. What other retail sales organization has the chutzpah to charge
such a fee in the first place?
I suppose however that if they waive the doc fee, they'll just add it on to
another item or make sure
in some way that they'll get the dough. Insufferable!

 

Re: Cleveland area dealers (was: SE and Natl)

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 00:06:11 GMT, EB <ebonak-a-@t-hotmail.com> wrote:

>Hi Stuart,
>
>Stuart Krivis wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:40:20 GMT, EB <ebonakDUH_@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Metro Toyota near Cleveland.
>>
>> I know a number of people who have bought cars at Metro and have been
>> very satisfied.
>
>Yes, I have heard that too, though my experience with them via
>the internet has not been impressive. Their guy just bombarded my
>mailbox with junkmail (6 messages in the first 24 hours) and then
>continued to send me irrelevant information about cars I was
>not interested in - I had made it very clear I was only looking
>at a RAV4, not pickup trucks etc.

I wonder whether that's normal, or whether one salesman got carried
away?

>
>Motorcars Toyota on Mayfield Road in Cleveland seems very responsive
>too, both on-line and by phone.

I forgot about them. Yes, I've heard good things about them too.


>
>I have been dealing mostly with Premier Toyota in Amherst (closest
>to Oberlin, where I am) and they have been quite nice so far. Though,
>today I was talking to the sales manager and he misrepresented the
>truth (I'd like to not say "lied" as I can't recall the exact words
>he used, but certainly he implied something false) which put a damper
>on my experience so far. This was about the documentation fee, he said
>it was a standard required $250 fee that all dealerships were charging
>(or required to charge - I don't quite remember)
>
>Of course it only took me 10 minutes to find out that it's entirely
>up to the dealer to charge up to $250 (they are not required), and
>that all of the $$ goes into their pockets.
>
>Do they really get away with this a lot? I mean it didn't take very
>long to find out. Still, what a pain to deal with.

A "documentation" fee seems to be pretty standard around here. It's
just added dealer profit. :-(

Hey, at least they told you about it up front. Most dealers don't
mention it until you're filling out the final paperwork.

>
>http://www.bmv.ohio.gov/dealer_licensing/dlrs_faq.htm


>That section now provides that a seller entering into a retail
>installment contract can charge a fee of up to two hundred fifty dollars
>($250) for preparation of documents related to the sale. Previously,


This just goes to show how unfriendly Ohio is to consumers in general.
Preparing documents to sell a car is simply a business expense. The
dealer should just suck it up and then take it off their taxes.

Of course, it would probably only come to $10-20 per car, so I guess
they're not interested in that. Instead, they see this as a chance to
squeeze more money from the customer, and the state govt. thinks that
is just a swell idea.

 

Re: Cleveland area dealers (was: SE and Natl)

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:56:19 -0700, "mack" <mackerel@dslextreme.com>
wrote:

>
>"EB" <ebonak-a-@t-hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:T7VYg.3385$kG5.1586@trndny07...
>
>
>> . This was about the documentation fee, he said
>> it was a standard required $250 fee that all dealerships were charging
>> (or required to charge - I don't quite remember)
>>
>> Of course it only took me 10 minutes to find out that it's entirely
>> up to the dealer to charge up to $250 (they are not required), and
>> that all of the $$ goes into their pockets.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>HOLY SH*T ! (yeah, I know, I'm shouting, but I tend to do that when I
>become apoplectic!)
>
>That caps it. I would never pay $250 for a dealer's clerk to write up a
>sales slip or two!
>Last time I had any dealings with a dealer, the doc fee was $45 as I
>recall.....and That's
>a ripoff. What other retail sales organization has the chutzpah to charge
>such a fee in the first place?
>I suppose however that if they waive the doc fee, they'll just add it on to
>another item or make sure
>in some way that they'll get the dough. Insufferable!
>

There are some dealers around here that won't even waive the doc fee.
They just basically tell you to stuff it. I guess they figure some
other sucker will buy the car if you don't.

Probably the worst in this area is Bob Serpentini. His name is so
appropriate, because he's a real snake.
http://www.serpentinichevy.com/

He lived in my town (he might still live there) and I met him once.
What a jerk!

 

SE = Southeast Toyota Disbtributor. National = most every where else.

"EB" <ebonakDUH_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eSQYg.2146$IW6.307@trndny01...
> Hi all,
>
> I sent this to our local Toyota dealer:
>
>
> One more quick question. When I looked at the car listing on your site
> I saw these two notations next to the various trim levels: SE and Natl
> can you tell me what these mean?
>
> I got this back:
>
> To be honest with you I am not quite sure what those mean either.
>
>
>
> I believe I have seen these designations elsewhere on other Toyota
> sites. Does anyone know their significance? Just curious.
>
> EB

 

See http://www.jmfamily.com/SET/default.htm - Toyotas in the Southeast
aren't distributed directly by Toyota. They are distributed by a gang
err...family owned distributor that operates out of Deerfield Beach, FL.
Living in NC, near the Va line it is interesting to see the difference
between dealers in Va and NC. In Virginia, Toyota are distributed by the
National Distributor (Toyota owned). The Southeast dealers are all part of
the same cabal, and you when you visit one of their web sites you can
generally see all the Toyotas available in the Southeast. The SE Toyotas
often have different option packages (some distributor installed) and
different destination charges. It used to be you almost couldn't buy a
Toyota in the SE without having to put up with fabric and paint sealants,
since they were distributor applied options (and HUGE profit makers). Be
glad you don't live in the SE if you are buying a Toyota.

Ed

"C. E. White" <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4534d285@kcnews01...
> SE = Southeast Toyota Disbtributor. National = most every where else.
>
> "EB" <ebonakDUH_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:eSQYg.2146$IW6.307@trndny01...
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I sent this to our local Toyota dealer:
>>
>>
>> One more quick question. When I looked at the car listing on your site
>> I saw these two notations next to the various trim levels: SE and Natl
>> can you tell me what these mean?
>>
>> I got this back:
>>
>> To be honest with you I am not quite sure what those mean either.
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe I have seen these designations elsewhere on other Toyota
>> sites. Does anyone know their significance? Just curious.
>>
>> EB
>
>

 

C. E. White wrote:
> SE = Southeast Toyota Disbtributor. National = most every where else.

Ah .. ok, so I guess they sell (slightly) differently equipped models
then. Thanks!

 

Re: Cleveland area dealers

Stuart Krivis wrote:
>
> There are some dealers around here that won't even waive the doc fee.
> They just basically tell you to stuff it. I guess they figure some
> other sucker will buy the car if you don't.

Well, my attitude will be that they can charge as much as they want for
the doc fee, I'm just going to roll all of it into the final price
(incl taxes/fees) and consider who can provide the best price. They can
figure out how much to shave off their "required" $250 doc fee.

> Probably the worst in this area is Bob Serpentini. His name is so
> appropriate, because he's a real snake.

Doesn't sound nice .. you shouldn't give our his URL .. doesn't deserve
that free promo.

Have you heard anything about Toyota of Bedford?

 

Re: Cleveland area dealers

Stuart Krivis wrote:
> Their guy [Metro Toyota] just bombarded my
>> mailbox with junkmail (6 messages in the first 24 hours) and then
>> continued to send me irrelevant information about cars I was
>> not interested in - I had made it very clear I was only looking
>> at a RAV4, not pickup trucks etc.
>
> I wonder whether that's normal, or whether one salesman got carried
> away?

I think he just gets an inquiry, and dumps a bunch of pre-canned e-mail
out. It would be much more effective to actually read the request first
IMHO instead of spamming. Like I said, this did not impress me.

>> Motorcars Toyota on Mayfield Road in Cleveland seems very responsive
>> too, both on-line and by phone.
>
> I forgot about them. Yes, I've heard good things about them too.

At this point I am going to look at them, Sunnyside, Metro and Premier
locally.

> A "documentation" fee seems to be pretty standard around here. It's
> just added dealer profit. :-(
>
> Hey, at least they told you about it up front. Most dealers don't
> mention it until you're filling out the final paperwork.

ugh .. well, I am just going to roll it all into one final price,
they can toss it in there if they like, it's just going to inflate
their final offer to me.

> This just goes to show how unfriendly Ohio is to consumers in general.
> Preparing documents to sell a car is simply a business expense.

Yes, seems extremely silly. But then again, the whole car buying experience
is. I can't believe how much time I have spent reading/researching about
all that is involved. I buy one car every 15 years or so, so it's not like
I'm practiced in this. If I was getting one every 2 or 3 years, it might
even be fun because I'd presumably know what I was doing .. :-|

 

Re: Cleveland area dealers (was: SE and Natl)

The only 'fees' any buyer should pay are the frees require by the state and
local government, related to the purchase of any vehicle. When ever I am
asked to pay a fee for a dealership employee to do his job, I ask do you
want me to pay the guy that washed the vehicle a well? Why would any buyer
pay a dealership for something that is just one more cost of doing business?


mike hunt


"mack" <mackerel@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:12j8ahp55d87k57@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "EB" <ebonak-a-@t-hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:T7VYg.3385$kG5.1586@trndny07...
>
>
>> . This was about the documentation fee, he said
>> it was a standard required $250 fee that all dealerships were charging
>> (or required to charge - I don't quite remember)
>>
>> Of course it only took me 10 minutes to find out that it's entirely
>> up to the dealer to charge up to $250 (they are not required), and
>> that all of the $$ goes into their pockets.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
> HOLY SH*T ! (yeah, I know, I'm shouting, but I tend to do that when I
> become apoplectic!)
>
> That caps it. I would never pay $250 for a dealer's clerk to write up a
> sales slip or two!
> Last time I had any dealings with a dealer, the doc fee was $45 as I
> recall.....and That's
> a ripoff. What other retail sales organization has the chutzpah to
> charge such a fee in the first place?
> I suppose however that if they waive the doc fee, they'll just add it on
> to another item or make sure
> in some way that they'll get the dough. Insufferable!
>
>

 

Re: Cleveland area dealers

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:16:57 GMT, EB <ebonakDUH_@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>Have you heard anything about Toyota of Bedford?

No, I haven't.

 

Re: Cleveland area dealers

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 13:22:42 GMT, EB <ebonakDUH_@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Yes, seems extremely silly. But then again, the whole car buying experience
>is. I can't believe how much time I have spent reading/researching about
>all that is involved. I buy one car every 15 years or so, so it's not like
>I'm practiced in this. If I was getting one every 2 or 3 years, it might
>even be fun because I'd presumably know what I was doing .. :-|

I'm not sure it could ever be fun. It's more of a necessary evil.

It was interesting to see how excited people were over the no-haggling
prices at Saturn dealers when they first introduced them. I don't know
whether or not you actually get a fair deal, but you evidently get the
same deal as everyone else, and it sure takes less time.

 

"C. E. White" <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4534d285@kcnews01...
> SE = Southeast Toyota Disbtributor. National = most every where else.
>

I thought about that, but it makes no sense. A dealer in Ohio is part of
Toyota Motor Distributors Cincinnati Region and is not part of Southeast
Toyota Distributors. Also, the internal codes for Southeast Toyota would be
SET, while a code from Toyota Motor Distributors would be TMD..
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

 

Re: Cleveland area dealers

Stuart Krivis wrote:
> I'm not sure it could ever be fun. It's more of a necessary evil.
>
> It was interesting to see how excited people were over the no-haggling
> prices at Saturn dealers when they first introduced them. I don't know
> whether or not you actually get a fair deal, but you evidently get the
> same deal as everyone else, and it sure takes less time.

I recently read that Saturn has done away with the policy now and it's
just like any other place where you have to haggle. Maybe someone who
knows can confirm or refute this ...

Yes, it would be nice if buying a car was much simpler and less time
consuming.

 

Re: Cleveland area dealers (was: SE and Natl)

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:33:46 -0400, Stuart Krivis
<jd@mongo.krivis.com> wrote:

>There are some dealers around here that won't even waive the doc fee.
>They just basically tell you to stuff it. I guess they figure some
>other sucker will buy the car if you don't.

Repeat after me: Deal on the "Out The Door" price ONLY, and any
trade-ins are a totally separate deal. When you have reached a deal
on the new car, you write them a check for that price.

And if they try tossing "documentation" or "transportation" or
"advertising" fees on after the fact, you politely ask them just what
part of "Out The Door Price" they did not understand.

Before they make that offer they already know exactly what that car
cost them to the penny, what their overhead expenses are, what they
need to make on the deal, and they know how much it's going to cost to
get your tags and title processed by the state. If they want to
"charge those fees on paper", they can subtract them from the sales
price and add them as a separate line item - as long as the
bottom-line "Out The Door Price" remains the same.

And if they persist in trying to roll you for a few hundred extra,
you get up and walk away. They can have 100% of nothing.

--<< Bruce >>--

 

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:d48f6$45350f0f$44a4a10d$5532@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>
> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:4534d285@kcnews01...
>> SE = Southeast Toyota Disbtributor. National = most every where else.
>>
>
> I thought about that, but it makes no sense. A dealer in Ohio is part of
> Toyota Motor Distributors Cincinnati Region and is not part of Southeast
> Toyota Distributors. Also, the internal codes for Southeast Toyota would
> be SET, while a code from Toyota Motor Distributors would be TMD..

I've seen the SE and National terms used locally when I was shopping trucks.
For whatever reason, the Southeast Toyota Distributor is independent and
often has slightly different options than all the other national
distributors. Since I live near the NC/Va Line, I have had many occasions to
compare dealers on different sides of the line (and hence served by
different distributors). The web sites for all the Southeast dealers have
the same basic inventory search features and they show you all the cars
meeting your specs available in the Southeast region. If you go to the web
site for a dealer in Va, the web sites are all over the place. Here are two
to compare:

http://www.toyotaofelizabethcity.com/New-Inventory.aspx
http://www.priorityauto.com/ou/chesapeake-toyota/console.do?page=f_specials_newspecials

These dealers are less than 40 miles apart.

If you look for a 5 speed manual Tacoma in Elizabeth City, NC, the web site
list 153 vehicle available in the SE region. You can't even do the same
search at Priority Toyota - you can just search on Tacoma, and then plow
through the list to find one like you want. And you only get 24 to choose
from. And the list price is higher in Va. by over $500. The Southeast
dealers seem to be able to trade vehicles at will, but there is no way to
get one across the line between Va and NC. My SO was looking for a RAV4 and
found one like she wanted in Va, but didn't want to go there to get it.
Dealer in NC said it was impossible to transfer one from Va to NC, but found
one elsewhere in the SE for her.

As I understand it, Toyota owns all the US distributors except for Southeast
Toyota and Gulf States Toyota
(http://www.hoovers.com/gulf-states-toyota,-inc./--ID__40193--/free-co-factsheet.xhtml
). I often see Toyotas differentiated as National and Southeast, but never
see differentiation for Gulf States Toyota. I took a look at a Houston
Toyota Dealers web site and it is more like the one in Va. instead of the
cookie cutter ones you see at Southeast Distributors.

Ed

 

Re: Cleveland area dealers (was: SE and Natl)

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 18:07:26 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
<blPYTHONbergman@earthlink.invalid> wrote:

>
> And if they persist in trying to roll you for a few hundred extra,
>you get up and walk away. They can have 100% of nothing.

I've done just that.

On the other hand, I know of a local Chevy dealer where they refuse to
let people walk out the door if they're making any halfway reasonable
offer. (One of my friends worked there for a while and told me this.
They evidently figured that getting a customer in the door is really
hard and you just don't let them go somewhere else.)

 

"C. E. White" <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:45351e2f$1@kcnews01...
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:d48f6$45350f0f$44a4a10d$5532@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>>
>> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:4534d285@kcnews01...
>>> SE = Southeast Toyota Disbtributor. National = most every where else.
>>>
>>
>> I thought about that, but it makes no sense. A dealer in Ohio is part of
>> Toyota Motor Distributors Cincinnati Region and is not part of Southeast
>> Toyota Distributors. Also, the internal codes for Southeast Toyota would
>> be SET, while a code from Toyota Motor Distributors would be TMD..
>
> I've seen the SE and National terms used locally when I was shopping
> trucks. For whatever reason, the Southeast Toyota Distributor is
> independent and often has slightly different options than all the other
> national distributors.

The difference in options is due to differences in how the person who
submits the production order preference handles dealer requests. I believe
that the distribution departments at the independent distributors are
incentivised on the profit that the distributor makes so you tend to see
more options. As a TMD employee, we were judged more on sales velocity so
we equipped the cars so that they would sell the quickest.

Since I live near the NC/Va Line, I have had many occasions to
> compare dealers on different sides of the line (and hence served by
> different distributors). The web sites for all the Southeast dealers have
> the same basic inventory search features and they show you all the cars
> meeting your specs available in the Southeast region. If you go to the web
> site for a dealer in Va, the web sites are all over the place. Here are
> two to compare:
>
> http://www.toyotaofelizabethcity.com/New-Inventory.aspx
> http://www.priorityauto.com/ou/chesapeake-toyota/console.do?page=f_specials_newspecials
>
> These dealers are less than 40 miles apart.
>
> If you look for a 5 speed manual Tacoma in Elizabeth City, NC, the web
> site list 153 vehicle available in the SE region. You can't even do the
> same search at Priority Toyota - you can just search on Tacoma, and then
> plow through the list to find one like you want. And you only get 24 to
> choose from. And the list price is higher in Va. by over $500. The
> Southeast dealers seem to be able to trade vehicles at will, but there is
> no way to get one across the line between Va and NC. My SO was looking for
> a RAV4 and found one like she wanted in Va, but didn't want to go there to
> get it. Dealer in NC said it was impossible to transfer one from Va to NC,
> but found one elsewhere in the SE for her.

I believe that SET uses dealer network software from the TMD regions so
there are differences in what the consumer sees in linked web sites. When
I worked for TMD, I always felt that the TMS IT department was always well
behind the curve, and the TMD sales, service, and parts department policies
and procedures were driven by IT dept policies instead of the other way
around.

>
> As I understand it, Toyota owns all the US distributors except for
> Southeast Toyota and Gulf States Toyota
> (http://www.hoovers.com/gulf-states-toyota,-inc./--ID__40193--/free-co-factsheet.xhtml
> ).

That is correct. TMS has gradually taken over the independent distributors.
Mid-Atlantic Toyota (MAT) was the most recent acquisition, about 1990 or so;
they are now known as Central Atlantic Toyota (CAT). Before that was New
England Toyota, which is now the Boston Region, and Mid-States Toyota, which
is now the Chicago Region.

The Boston region dealers used to tell me that they thought they died and
went to heaven when they were able to deal directly with TMD employees
instead of the previous independent distributor.

Interestingly enough, SET's chairman is a former Ford dealer from Chicago.
I don't hear much public news of his generosity, but I've heard from his
emplyees that he is very people-oriented, and has paid the medical expenses
for sick children of dealership employees at the best hospitals in the
country, letting them fly on one of his Gulfstreams for treatment. I've met
the man, and his personality doesn't match the agressive business practices
one hears of. He is soft-spoken, always has a smile for people, and drives
a Corolla. I doubt that he drives the Corolla due to budgetary constraints
since he can afford 2 G-V Gulfstream jets, a helicopter, a 160' Feadship, a
140' Feadship, another 100' yacht, and a small 40 footer to get from his
house to where the yachts are moored.

I often see Toyotas differentiated as National and Southeast, but never
> see differentiation for Gulf States Toyota. I took a look at a Houston
> Toyota Dealers web site and it is more like the one in Va. instead of the
> cookie cutter ones you see at Southeast Distributors.
>
> Ed

I believe that Gulf States Toyota uses Toyota's dealer network so it will
appear to be the same on a web site that links to the dealer inventory.

Toyota actually uses 3-digit numerical prefixes to denote regions, with the
first 2 digits denoting the region and the 3rd digit denoting the district
within the region, and the first 2 digits of the dealer code denoting the
state. For example, the Boston Region used to have 5 districts, so a dealer
in district 3 in Western MA might be 123-04001.

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

 

Re: Cleveland area dealers

Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:33:46 -0400, Stuart Krivis
> <jd@mongo.krivis.com> wrote:
>
>> There are some dealers around here that won't even waive the doc fee.
>> They just basically tell you to stuff it. I guess they figure some
>> other sucker will buy the car if you don't.
>
> Repeat after me: Deal on the "Out The Door" price ONLY, and any
> trade-ins are a totally separate deal. When you have reached a deal
> on the new car, you write them a check for that price.
>
> And if they try tossing "documentation" or "transportation" or
> "advertising" fees on after the fact, you politely ask them just what
> part of "Out The Door Price" they did not understand.

Here's a fresh example. I had e-mailed a dealer and written:

"I am ready to buy in the very near future, so my questions are about
availability and final out-the-door price (incl. all fees and taxes)
for this car."

This is what I got today:

"I can sell it to you for $xx,xxx + tax + doc($99).
Keep in mind that we have to pay and insure drivers to go get this for you."

I doubt they are just mentioning the last part for informational
reasons, I assume they will try to stick on a charge based on that
too (I need to e-mail and just verify of course, maybe I am mistaken
and will be pleasantly surprised).

 

Re: Cleveland area dealers

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 22:12:15 GMT, EB <ebonakDUH_@hotmail.com> wrote:

>This is what I got today:
>
>"I can sell it to you for $xx,xxx + tax + doc($99).
>Keep in mind that we have to pay and insure drivers to go get this for you."


I'd be tempted to respond "Yes, and you have to pay and insure those
drivers in order to even stay in business, so it's not something I'm
paying for."

However, I guess I could live with it since they gave the fee upfront.
I'd just add it to the xx,xxx and see whether that was still a good
price.