This is mainly for Forced Induction guys, but...

A washer pump would create a *correct* ratio of water to mixture mass on a near stock N/A engine (say a sub 280hp N/A v6). I've noted that the engine runs much smoother while on the water. It also stays clean so it's fairly well worth the $15-$30!


Now... There is *nothing* that says you can't do something silly like inject nitromethane and methanol into the engine. Just ask my knock sensor I just had to fix!:lol:
(Good for another 10-15hp! :clap:

 

Nice discovery on using the cold start injector! :thumbup:

 

:thumbup: :thumbup:

 

Ty. Even after fixing my knock sensor problem, I've still got some massive knock at just over 4000rpm. Took it out and flogged it this afternoon (with no exhaust, aint Alabama grand!) Wouldn't do it under any condition I tried. So it definately works! (I'm happy it was detonation! I was expecting a failing bearing, or some such trickery)

I just wish it was varriable... If it was, it'd be the perfect solution. Set it up low on the scale. That way it's not dumping way too much water in at lower power levels!

I just had mine switching based on TPS, and over 1500rpm today. Lemmie tell ya... The engine doesn't like 300cc of fuel mixing with over 400cc of water hahahaha! It kinda had a studder till I set the minimum RPM to 2500.

My detonation also helped show something else. This setup, from an un-filled hose will be squirting water in around a half second. Can't take any more than 1500rpm for the thing to come online, so that's great.





I'm still concerned with flow rate on this fuel pump. I want to T a smal diameter return line at the injector to help cut flow rates more. The line is bad to blow off too. I had to zip tie and hose clamp them together, and they still weap water. Atleast they don't blow off anymore!

 

how would one go about doing this to a 5sfe? where would i connect the CSI?

 

 

I just drilled a hole smaller than the CSI into the stock rubber intake hose. Right behind the air meter.

Shoved it so the nozzle would be around the middle of the pipe and left it unsupported. Dripped some water on it with the engine idling and there was no leak so... That seemed to work well enough.



ekim55121 It's fairly simple.
You need hosing, wire, a CSI, a pump, a relay, and something to trigger the relay with.


In this picture, Red is power. Black is any avalible ground. (Engine, or chassie)
The air-switch (vacuum for N/A, boost sensative for boost) activates the relay. The relay trips (a relay is nothing but an electriclly operated switch. Usefull in having a small electrical current, activate a much larger electrical current), allowing power to flow to the pump and CSI. The pump sucks water from the tank, sends it to the open CSI. The bypass is optional, depending on how much flow you have.

A Toyota windshield washer pump flows enough for a turbocharged, stock i4. You would blow the stock i4 just before the water injection started getting out of it's msot effective ratio.

 

so you are saying if i do this to my motor and its non turbo charged it will sitting next to my supra in the driveway? also waiting for a new motor?

 

so you are saying if i do this to my motor and its non turbo charged it will sitting next to my supra in the driveway? also waiting for a new motor?

I'm sorry ekim but this doesn't make any since. Would you re-word it for me?


Pete; I know exactly what you've been trying to do, and It's just not gonna work AFA I can see! You can try a humidifer, but that's not much water. I was seirous, that digicam sucks and you can't see the amount of water spraying. It's an extremely fine mist, and a lot of it.



Pete do this. Take whatever toyota CSI you can get your hands on and shove it into the intake (remember it *must* be behind the airflow sensor!!!) Water will kill a MAF, and on a vane-flap, any fluid is going to trigger an Intake Air Tempature malfunction code.


Take the CSI and ground one wire. Take the power wire and splice it into the stock washer pump wire. Pull the washer pump hose off, and put a new line going to the CSI. Now all you need is a way to trigger it. If you're not afraid of rain then it's easy. You simply pull the electrical feed to the wiper engine. You could also just cut the wire that triggers the wiper motor, and put a switch in it. That way you can disable it.



Probably cost $5 to do it that way.

 

And *DAMN* 12 hour drive. You don't know how clean your combustion chamber will be if you run water injection for a half hour haha!

 

are you saying that this might blow my motor on my camry? so then it will be sitting next to my supra waiting for a motor since both cars would then need motors?

 

Pete you'll find this interesting:

national Advosory Committee for Aeronautics
1942

Investigation of water induction in a single-cylinder engine over a range of fuel-air ratios from 20:1 - 8:1 indicated the following conclusions:

1) Water injection allowed a fuel to be operated above it's normal maximum permissible performance limits.
2) Water injection allowed a fuel to be operated at a higher indicated mean effective pressure, with a lower indicated specific fuel consumption, or with both, than was permitted without an internal coolant.
3)Water injection had a marked cooling effect on the engine head an cylinder. The exhaust-valve-guide was the only point on the head at which the temperature showed a tendency to increase with indicated mean effective pressure. The temperature was less, however, than that obtained with a straight fuel permitting equivalent power.
4) Water injection showed no advantage in fuel economy when the fuel was operated well below it's maximum permissible performance limits.


Based on that, Without re-tuning the ECU with more ignition advance, and a leaner mixture, I wouldn't think the fuel economy will improve much. If it did, I would expect that to be because carbon deposits are being cleaned away.


********************

Sean, David, Tony, and Justin - yall will find this interesting!

All the testing was done on a 202ci single cylinder air-cooled engine. 7.0 Compression ratio, 80 octane fuel, and the engine is being force fed air through it's manifold. Keep in mind this is all old-school stuff, so don't be trying to compair that to modern stuff. Taken at a manifold inlet tempature aof 250*F, at 2000rpm.
(The testing methodogy was to increase power until the engine was audiably knocking, then back off from it's onset 7%)

Indicated mean effective pressure = combustion chamber pressure
Maximum Manifold pressre = boost in in/Hg scale
Estimated hp = you're a retard if you don't understand this one!

At an Air/Mixture of 15-1
100% fuel:
IMEP = 180psi
Boost = 37in/Hg
Est hp = 280

20% water to 80% fuel:
IMEP = 215psi
Boost = 43in/Hg
Est HP = 330

60% water to 40% fuel: ***
IMEP = 306psi
Boost = 59in/Hg
Est HP = >450***

That's at a freaking 15-1 Air to mixture ratio!!!


At a more friendly 12.5-1 ratio
100% fuel:
IMEP = 205psi
Boost = 42in/Hg
Est HP = 306

20% water to 80% fuel:
IMEP = 264psi
Boost = 52.5in/Hg
Est HP = 390

40% water to 60% fuel: ***
IMEP = >310psi***
Boost = 62.5in/Hg
Est HP = >470***

At 10.5-1 ratio
100% fuel:
IMEP = 260psi
Boost = 52.5in/Hg
Est HP = 385

20% water to 80% fuel:
IMEP = 295psi
Boost = 58in/Hg
Est HP = 425



*** Results not exactly measured. Engine limits discovered.



I included the 40% mixture purely to show just *how much* fuel is having to cool the mixture, and that yes you CAN lean fuel safely, provided you give thought to the amount of water needed to offset the fuel.

 

As good as this sounds, most guys will not find any benefits from using water injection on a stock motor with stock engine management :lol:

I know it was a good way to get rid of your detonation problems, but I am sure that a couple of degrees of ignition retard will solve that.

Here's a good thread about water injection... I also contributed in this discussion as well:
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1208361&page=2

 

I'm not advocating it to stock people, just throwing it out there. (I've said multiple times the main benifits are nil if you're not really on the verge). pgmomni has been wanting to try water injection on his stock engine for a long time.





Anyways. This will help me with the turbo, when everthe F'ing MIG get's off back order and get's shipped. I just figured someone might like some info on it. If not until a long time in the future.

 

Its a good idea probably your best right up to date Thx

 

interesting note here.

i read this and got motivated to do this to the scepter, and found a few parts that might be a little different

i found a csi for a 79 280z is about the right length for 2.5 intercooler piping, and, im using a 92 jeep cherokee washer tank. it has 2 pumps, and a level switch. i was thinking high and low with a dummy light. ill get some pics up when its installed

 

Thread Revival every 2 years!

For as long as the link is availble, here is some good technical info to add to this. . .

RB Racing waterinjection

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html