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VVT Camshaft rattling - is this an issue?

20K views 19 replies 13 participants last post by  dddd  
#1 ·
I recently purchased a 2016 Camry XSE with the 2.5 L AR-FE engine. When it sits overnight or for an extended period, there is a loud rattling sound coming from the top of the engine for about a second or two. I have checked into this and it appears the camshaft gear drains overnight and this rattling is the time it takes for the gear to get refilled after the car starts. There were two TSBs in the past for this (2010 and 2013) which advised Toyota Techs how to fix the problem, should a 1 second rattle occur. In other words, they recognized that that rattle of as little as a 1 second duration was a flaw that should be fixed. I went to a dealership and they state there is no current TSB or recall for this issue and therefore they will not fix... yet when I check with their parts department, the VVT camshaft gear is the same part # as was in the 2010 -2013 cars. So one would think if the same part is in the same engine and does the same flaw and noises, it should have the same fix. They don't agree. What do you guys think? Is this something to be concerned about?
 
#5 ·
If under waranty, exercise warranty.
If no warranty, change oil and filter

I will assume that you have a full level of oil and that the vehicle has a history of service.

It is still under warranty and yes, have a full level of oil and vehicle has been serviced. The dealerships just don't wish to do the work for fear of having Toyota head office deem the repair unnecessary and leave them with the bill. So I am told.
 
#4 ·
Question is not in cam gear. Question is in low oil pressure at the startup.
Locate VVT solenoid, pull it out and clean with spray. Locate VVT solenoid strainer filter and - very gently - remove it and clean. very gently. Their base is some crappy brittle plastic.
I'd also run can of Seafom through oil for about a100 miles, drain and do oil and filter. Personally, I'd switch to one weight up in oil. Or, add Lucas. Lucas is good medicine.
 
#7 ·
Well, it depends on engine. On 3.0L V6 strainer filters are just right next to solenoids. Then on 3.5L, I believe, they are way out somewhere in the front. You need to do research on that.
1 Seafom won't cut the cheese. We just restored compression on in law's Corolla by doing 2 cans per oil change, 3 oil changes every 100 miles. Pretty much, stopped oil consumption completely.
Oil pressure is not just pump. It is also plugged passages and worn out crank bearings. Also, as VVT is chain driven, slack in chain results in ill VVT function. Hydraulic tensioner leaks oil out, so chain starts slacked causing all that havoc. It is a myth that chains are lifetime, they stretch and tensioner starts having hard time accommodating that.
 
#8 ·
As far as I know Toyota considers this normal and it doesn't damage the engine. I previously had a Honda with the K24 engine that made the same noise and it was caused by the same VVT solenoid oil leak down. Not surprising since Denso supplies Honda with the solenoid. Honda also says the noise is considered normal and doesn't damage the engine. They must know what they're talking about since it had 218,000 miles on it when I replaced it with the Camry.
 
#9 ·
As far as I know Toyota considers this normal and it doesn't damage the engine. I previously had a Honda with the K24 engine that made the same noise and it was caused by the same VVT solenoid oil leak down. Not surprising since Denso supplies Honda with the solenoid. Honda also says the noise is considered normal and doesn't damage the engine. They must know what they're talking about since it had 218,000 miles on it when I replaced it with the Camry.

This is my first import... I'm used to V6 and V8 Chevs and Fords. All older push-rod technologies... so not used to hearing a rattle like this coming from an engine unless its -20 out...
 
#13 ·
I have a 2004 Camry SE 2.4 that makes this unsettling noise on cold start up. I've read through this thread and there seems to be no solid cure. I bought this car not running and had to repair all the head bolt threads in the block since they were pulled. Went back together with a reman head and aftermarket timing chain, gears, tensioner, and VVT solenoid. All new albeit after market. What i'm asking is should I replace the VVT gear, solenoid, or chain tensioner. The cold startup rattle is VERY unsettling. 180K showing on the clock. I absolutely love this little car except for that damn noise.
 
#14 ·
I have a 2013 Toyota Camry Hybrid LXE, 76K miles. Last week upon starting the engine it made a very loud banging noise with the engine shaking. It was 30 degrees in the garage. I turned it off and started again twice on the 3rd start the noise and shaking stopped. It has never done that before. Then it ran and started a second time that day just fine. I had started it the day before just to see if tire pressure low gauge was triggered, I ran it for 3 mins max, it was -6 degrees parked in the garage that day. The oil is synthetic 20 w changed by dealer, level is fine, I get it changed every 8-10K miles 1 a year per dealer instructions. There is a Youtube video on this banging noise and their 3 cause theories are...
1. VVTI pressure pin not locking, 2.incomplete previous warmup, 3.bad timing chain tensioner. Dealer says never heard of this before, have to bring it in when it's making the noise. The noise only lasted for 2-3 mins once the engine was warmed up, no check engine lights or error messages so I doubt if there is any problem code available on it. Does anyone else have/had this banging noise and found any solution? I'd like to keep it to 200K+.
 
#15 · (Edited)
…Does anyone else have/had this banging noise and found any solution?…
May not apply to you, but it’s worth a quick investigation.

A very common problem with all modern 4-cylinder Camrys is a worn out balance shaft assembly.

The most common symptoms are a “knocking” or “rattling” sound during engine warm up, accompanied by rough engine idle or more than usual engine vibration. Symptoms seem to go away once engine is fully warm.

There is only one fix: replace the balance shaft assembly or remove it entirely.
 
#16 ·
As mentioned by ukrkoz, start by increasing oil viscosity to 5W30, which is what I changed to in my 2015 Camry LE having 22k miles (now 44k miles). The clicking sound upon startup was greatly reduced, and after educating myself as to Toyota's Oil Viscosity Charts (that they don't provide to US customers, per agreements with the EPA), I changed again, to 10W30, which is still good down to Zero-F (both 0W20 and 5W30 show no lower temperature limit at all in Toyota's oil grade chart).

People assume that thinner oil reaches the parts faster, which isn't really true or even pertinent because it is air being displaced from the oil galleries through the bearing clearances upon startup, not oil.
Once the air is (quickly!) purged, the heavier grade of oil provides more in the way of a solid jolt in oil pressure to the critical VVTI locking pin, assuring that it starts moving instead of sticking (which is what causes the eventual step-wear in the pin).

The heavier grade of oil will also provide higher lubricating film strength to the sliding action of the locking pin, which is critical in such conditions of static friction between steel parts (this is not hydrodynamic lubrication here, as would be the case with the engine bearings).

All I can add to the above is a recommendation to try using the inexpensive Mobil1 5W30 (or 10W30 for temperatures above Zero). And see for yourself!
 
#18 ·
As mentioned by ukrkoz, start by increasing oil viscosity to 5W30, which is what I changed to in my 2015 Camry LE having 22k miles (now 44k miles). The clicking sound upon startup was greatly reduced,
... snipped ...
All I can add to the above is a recommendation to try using the inexpensive Mobil1 5W30 (or 10W30 for temperatures above Zero). And see for yourself!
+1. I have a '17 SE, 2.5L with 106000 miles. Switched to 5w30 QS and engine is much quieter on startup.
 
#17 ·
I have a 2010 Camry SE with the 2.5. It started making the death rattle around 160,000 miles. Since, I have continued to do egular oil changes with Castrol synthetic and Lucas Oil Treatment. It has 241,000 miles and still does the death rattle on startup, but runs like a top. I do notice the engine is slightly louder internally running at idle. Otherwise, I love driving the car. I'm going to run it till it won't.
 
#20 ·
Not wanting to second-guess any long-term owner's experiences with their lubrication strategy, but Instead of playing a game of "mystery viscosity" using expensive additives, perhaps the simple (and FREE) option of upgrading the oil (to less of a "Minnesota winter" grade) will provide all of the desired benefits, with none of the mystery or added expense.

Toyota's oil grade charts for their cars going even past year 2000 show an arrow going off of the chart past zero-F for both the 0W20 and 5W30 grades, with 10W30 going only down to zero-F and 15W40 grade going down to 10F.
Use of the above temperature minimums assumes battery is in good condition.