Quite frankly, I didn't read your entire thread. I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I switched an'07 Camry 4 cyl over to the Valvoline product about 3 yrs. ago. I no longer service the vehicle. Spoke with the new owner about a month ago. She said car was running great. This may prove nothing, but it is an opinion and women always squawk when things seem amiss. It ran great for the approx. 2.5 yrs. that I drove it on & off with the Valvoline product in it.

Switched my '06 Avalon over to the Valvoline product about 2 yrs. ago. Shifting behavior in my opinion is identical to what I experienced with Toyota WS.

I've noticed on the WEB that a person(s) can make a derogatory statement about a product and that info can travel like wild fire. Take Fram Oil Filters for example. Some years ago a few people(maybe more really) went on youtube and cut Fram(and other) oil filters in half. They went on the explain why "they" thought these filters were substandard. Bring up Fram in a car yack site and all hell breaks loose. I managed to put 100s of 1000s of miles on cars with Fram Oil Filters. They may not be a top shelf product, but I believe that if you change your oil often and use ANY oil filter, your engine will do well. That's been my experience.

So...some time ago, I began seeing all kinds of yack on the WEB about how terrible Toyota WS transmission fluid is. I could go on & on about this, but will fast. fwd. to my conclusion. If this were true, countless Toyota's would have trashed transmissions. If Fram Oil Filters were REALLY as bad as many believe, we would have all kinds of engine failure problems. Countless people use Fram Oil Filters.

The internet is full of opinions.

Now for the Magnuson-Whatever act. I've read about it on Wikipedia. I am not an attorney, but I've read enough of it to know that the dealer is going to have the upper hand if you try to play this card. He can claim that your transmission fluid caused the failure, bring in countless Toyota reps, shop techs, etc., etc. You are talking about an engine that will cost $5,000 to $10,000 or a bit more to replace. I had a conversation with an attorney about this once. He grinned and then let me know this is the sort of thing that goes to small claims court. Lawyers get interested when the stakes are higher. A $10K engine doesn't even start a heart beat. There may be attorneys who have ventured down this road, but they were likely fresh out of school or representing an existing client who dumps lots of $$$ in their bank account every year for others reasons...ie...business representation/etc.

I have 2 other Toyota's that are young. 2014/2015. I wouldn't dream of using anything but WS in either one and will continue to do so until they have a lot of miles on them like my Avalon. What I will not do is follow Toyota's 100K interval recommendation for transmission fluid change. I drive cars until they are "dead" - 300K/400K. If I were to trade my in my vehicles every 5 yrs/100K; then I might feel comfortable with Toyota's plan which in my opinion was designed to entice customers who hate spending $$$ on maint. work & to suck up to the EPA.

Use what you like, but good luck if you're still in warranty using something other than WS and your trany heads south.

 

Similar to the post above, I tend to hang on to my vehicles for the long haul, up until the point where they begin needing repairs that make them no longer cost effective. I’ve driven three vehicles beyond their 200,000 mile mark. My ’06 Limited has about 125K miles on it and I plan to at least double that.

I recently owned a 2003 Honda Odyssey EX. These are great vehicles, except their Achilles’ heel was the transmission. It was not uncommon for owners to be on their third transmission before the 100K mile mark. I was fortunate to beat the odds and take my van and its original transmission to 268K before it was totaled by another driver.

Around the 200K mark, I began replacing the ATF (Honda Z-1) with Valvoline Maxlife ATF. As far as I knew and know now, it is the only non-Honda ATF that was labeled as Z-1 compatible. Honda has since replaced Z-1 with DW-1. At around the 250K mark, I started having occasional problems with the transmission slipping out of gear and clunking when shifting to reverse when the transmission was cold. Was this simply due to age/mileage or did the change to Maxlife promote these issues? It’s impossible to say at this point.

I’ve owned a 2005 and I currently own a 2006 Mazda 6S Sedan. Both had/have Aisin 6 speed transmissions, similar but not identical to the two Aisin transmissions used in third generation Avalons. They require Toyota Type IV ATF. I use Maxlife ATF in both vehicles and have had no transmission issues after accumulating a total of 100K miles on them.

I think Aisin transmissions are very good. They seem to hold up well in general. I’m not keen on the sealed six speed that Toyota uses. I know they have a good record but I was steered away from buying a ’08 XL with 145K because the owner couldn’t document any ATF servicing, which is about a $250 service and requires certain equipment that many shops don’t have.

Bottom line is I’ve read mostly positive reports from Toyota owners that have switched to Valvoline Maxlife. I’ll likely do the same the next time I have my Avalon on jack stands.

 

Mike makes a good point - take everything you read on the net with a grain of salt. Believe me I do - when the canola oil scam when flying around the net I researched it and found it to be fake and emailed each friend back with the links stating so and stopped the mini panic.Etc Etc. But when I research this topic I find a lot of POSITIVE things said about MaxLife and no negatives. I did not find that with WS (mixed bag).
I posted the above, from Thom, since he quotes supposed facts and states to be an expert (Vice President, Branded Lubricant Technology). is he ?? there are others that posted supposed facts about 5 competitors. Others who claim WS is not synthetic (I called 2 dealers - they didn't know). Another who claims it is made by ESSO and some by a Japanese co. It goes on.
Interesting to start a tread but not important! The question is from long time users of people who had the guts to change from Toyoto's "Only use our tanny fluid" line - did they have success.
My two cents on Use our fluid only - could be stated by the engineers who designed the car or the Marketing guy looking to repackage $2 wholesale oil for $12, instead of better and cheaper oil!

RESULTS SO FAR - two members who state they had Maxlife in cars that require "Use our fluid only", for a long time, with out problems!

 

You should be fine using either Toyota WS or the Maxlife, it's really about whatever brand makes you feel more comfortable. I've put Maxlife in everything from my old Jeep Cherokee and 1992 Camry, to my Dad's 2008 Honda Pilot and haven't had any issues whatsoever. In my wife's 2009 Yaris, however, I put the Toyota WS. If I didn't find it on Amazon fairly cheap it would have gotten Maxlife like everything else. They're both viable options and shouldn't hurt your trans at all. If you notice anything weird after filling it up you can just drain and refill with something else.

 

Over at tacomaworld.com - Toyota Tacoma site - there are countless people who swear up and down that they have successfully migrated to the Valvoline transmission fluid product. I have yet to find a negative report about this lubricant. Again, I have used it in 2 vehicles and have experienced no performance degradation.

Further down in this post is a thread from that forum that has less than kind things to say about Toyota WS ATF. The original poster is a fellow who goes by the name "gearcruncher". He says he owns a transmission repair shop in Canada.

Again, takes this for what it's worth. I ran my '06 Avalon on WS for 200K and had no issues. I also did 3.7 qt. rotation drains every 25K. It's my belief that what some are miffed about is that WS is not synthetic. Somehow people were led to believe that. I don't know if that was ever put in print or if people just assumed synthetic because they were plopping down $8-$15 a qt. for WS at their local dealer.

If you want WS, the best buys are on ebay. I have purchased from a seller in the Houston Tx area. Came out to a little over $9 a qt. approx. Local dealer gets about $12. The ebay seller ships for free. Saves me a trip into the big city. I will use WS at least until I am out of warranty and maybe longer.

Also - many of the transmissions used in Toyotas are made by a company called Aisin. They have a WS compliant ATF. You can also find it on ebay, although I find the Toyota WS to generally be cheaper. One would think the mfg. of the transmission- Aisin - would be able to source a legitimate WS fluid. Like Toyota, I doubt they actually make it.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...ds/ws-transmission-fluid-is-garbage-get-it-out-of-your-transmission-now.331521/

 

For anyone who thinks or believes a dealer who states any fluid other then Toyota WS will void your warranty please READ THIS -http://www.zabteck.com/MagnusonMossWarrantyAct.pdf

I will now play devil's advocate - MaxLife oil might be superior to WS if you can believe the stats given, but what about the additives?

That is why I believe the only true system, to get a real answer to this question and not opinion, is getting statements from people how have swapped out (not black or burnt) WS for MaxLife and used it for a long time successfully. I say not black or burnt tranny fluid since if a person waited this long to change their fluid any future issue might be due to the fact that the tranny was already damaged and not the new fluid.

RESULTS so far - 3 long time users switched with no issues.

 

I've been a mechanic for almost 40 years and have always used OEM recommended fluid. WS is a synthetic fluid, similar to MaxLife, but not identical.

If a transmission issue arises, having the right fluid leaves that out of the diagnostic equation. I use only WS fluid in my Toyota vehicles and only WS is customer's Toyota/Scion/Lexus vehicles.

There is a difference between compatible and identical.

Another fact : Mercedes transmissions are designed with a slip factor built in. If the wrong fluid is used, this slip factor will be wrong and a code will be set.

 

Like with all DIY work and replacement parts - it is all up to the comfort level of the owner, which way to go. As for warranty claims - as mentioned above, as long as you are using "spec'd" or compatible fluids/parts - it is completely on the manufacturer to show that damaged was directly caused by an incompatible fluid or part.

As long as you flush the existing fluid out and replaced it with all of one brand or another - shouldn't have any issues. I'm pretty skeptical about any universal fluids in a specific application - but lots of other owners in a similar situation, I have found good results with switching from Toyota WS to the compatible Valvoline Maxlife ATF.

Did a little experimenting on my 2nd gen Matrix - with Toyota WS ATF as original (already did a prior pan drop/filter replacement with a drain and replace with Toyota WS ATF). I did a drain and refill with Valvoline Maxlife Multi-Vehicle ATF LV (low viscosity type) - car actually drove a bit "off" - shifts weren't as smooth, slipping, jerky acceleration, etc.

Later did a pan drop - didn't notice much debris in the pan (a good thing) - did a full flush, replaced with all Valvoline Maxlife ATF. Car drove completely differently - at this point, drove exactly like it did when I had Toyota WS. Over that past 50K miles (car has almost 100K - ~half with WS, ~half with Valvoline) - there was no apparent change in behavior - about the same driveability, MPG was consistent, no dyno testing before/after - but with the "butt" dyno, performance seemed to stay consistent as well.

On the 3rd gen RAV4 - I just jumped straight to a full flush and refilled with all Valvoline Maxlife ATF. The 4th gen RAV4 - I'll keep with WS as my future control vehicle. So far - neither the RAV4 or the Matrix showed any ill effect, as long as the transaxle was running entirely all Toyota WS or all Valvoline Maxlife. Which is good news to me - as now I only have keep a supply of one type of ATF to put in all my current cars.

That said - the two ATFs are slightly different. There as number of VOA (Virgin Oil Analysis) floating around out there to see for yourself. Both are synthetic basestocks and have similar viscosity at temperature - but are NOT identical.

Toyota WS has a VI of 201, Valvoline is at 156. Viscosity of Toyota WS is 25 cSt@40C and 6 cSt@100C, Valvoline is at 28.82 cSt and 5.91 cSt respectively.

What does that mean for these cars? with a conventional transaxle (Aisin) - probably not much. Viscosity is very close, especially once the fluid is warmed to operating temps. VI (viscosity index) of 201 vs 156 - likely not an issue, unless you have something that is sensitive to changes in viscosity over a set temperature range. Oils with higher VI tend will not vary as wildly compared to lower indexed oils. Likely, this is more significant for people running CVT transaxles - likely why Valvoline does NOT recommend you run this oil in those applications.

 

WS isn't synthetic and its performance is nothing to brag about.

Mercedes is garbage for a higher income buyer who can replace vehicles instead of fluid. Seeing that same issue with the other commonly leased German marques. And, their AT's are NOT as picky as many think.

I've never used WS or T-IV in any of the 100's of Aisin boxes that I've serviced. I am not impressed with the performance or protection of TIV or WS. We would've been better off with Mercon-LV or Dexron-VI... available pretty much at any store that sells ATF, without the inferior overpriced WS fluid only available at dealers.

The fluid additive packages come for only several chemical companies, that make additives for pretty much everyone... I have faith that Infineum, Lubrizol, Afton... can make a universal or multivehicle ATF package that can surpass anything available from the lowest bid supplier to Aisin or Toyota.

Why does anyone think that the OE fluid, that causes... shudder in some torque converters, whining planetary gears in others, flares in some, bearing failures, worn out valve bodies...... can't be improved on?

 

Discussion is getting interesting, results so far

3 converted to Maxlife without out problem and had it in their cars for a long time
1 states stay with OEM
1 States get off WS its inferior to full synthetic


As for my car I was planning on doing my flush in a week or so when my shipment of filter / gasket /ATF comes in. I went on vacation drove about 400 miles. Would you know it when I was about 30 miles from home the transmission started to slip. And rapidly slipped bad (car would rev to 4-5K), if I didn't lay off the gas quick enough.

Did a quick change of 3.75qts with MaxLife. Below is a picture of the 3 fluids. HOPE THIS HELPS MY ISSUE. But might have had that lifetime ATF in too long, dark purple and not burnt is one step off black and burnt. 91K in a large city in hindsight is too late for a change. If someone in a suburban area drives 100 miles they have 1 cold start. In 100 miles I can average 20 - 40 cold starts. I will never go past 50k again no matter what the Co. says.

I am reading it could be the ECU/ECM or damaged clutch plates or band or small chance the fluid. ANY OPINIONS on my odds it the fluid?

 

My prayers were answered, issue was that the computer needed to be re-calibrated. Scanner showed no issues the deeper scan of the computer found codes set for the ABS computer, Steering angle sensor, & Yaw rate sensor. Back to doing a tranny tune up.

 

I was reading this thread and have to make a decision soon on what ATF to specify for the 2009 Avalon I am driving.

As far as I know, it has the original WS fluid in it (at 105k miles now). There no indication in the service records that it was ever replaced.

I know my options:

- Take it to the dealer and spend $300 for more WS.

- Take it to the local oil change place, specify Valoline MaxLife Full Syn ATF for about $100 or so. (Maybe a little more if they convince me they can do it correctly and also put a new filter in it.)

- DIY - using the procedures that are clearly outlined on the Camry forums here. I could go with Maxlife and save a LOT of $ or spend the double or triple to go with Toyota WS.

Is there another option on the ATF fluid?

I see this Idemitsu ATF on ebay....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Quarts-A...530&meid=87405657689241a0867769aeea39cd90&pid=100623&rk=2&rkt=5&sd=281831666649

Any comments, pro or con?

 

Check out this thread - you might want to read thru the whole thing:

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...ads/verified-alternatives-to-toyota-ws-atf-automaitc-transmission-fluid.373083/

 

OK, that was very helpful.

Based on a lot other folks experience, if I end up doing it myself, I will go with the Valvoline Maxlife Full Synthetic ATF.

Thanks!

 

using amsoil signature atf here. no issues

also using it in the power steering.

 

Toyota says only use their Transmission fluid in the 2007 Avalon, so I started my search for Toyota's recommended tranny fluid. What did I find - a lot of talk about how it is an inferior product, with a low flash point and how it can become acidic. Also a lot of talk on how Valvoline MaxLife™ is a superior full synthetic with better flashpoint and little viscosity breakdown.

What is your experience? My car has 91k on it and fluid is reddish brown with no burnt smell...so time to change it but I can still wait a short time.

P.S. anyone have procedures on how to get out (or flush) most of the fluid and how much that would be? I know the pan hold ~3.2qts.

The below is one of the best comments I found:

"WS is garbage, dont use it after warranty runs out .....better yet , get it out now before your warranty runs out ! Toyota Cant deny warranty of transmission fluid as long as it is WS compatible .
Give me a minute ! I am still working on this post with credible sources so dont call me out until I am finished Why would a guy with 30 years experience ....17 years of which owning my own shop working on transmissions every day say this ?
EDIT : still waiting for copywrite information to get released to me . I asked if i could use the information at Tacoma World ....now i am waiting for a reply ( Sept 15/2014). Sent another email Sept 13 . I will bump the post with new information as soon as I get permission .If you dont like waiting , think of how I feel being the OP .
Why should I waste my time and your time by reading this throwing a bunch of information together ? because like you , I am here to help others understand how manufacturers operate and how they try to skim past rules and regulations by trying to fool consumers into beleiving that you need a speacial fluid in your transmission to save fuel .WS fluid is nothing but a ploy used by Toyota to get away from paying taxes on environmental fees and that is all it is period .Can any of you tell us what transmission fluid is considered to be a lifetime fluid ? There is no such thing in this day and age .Toyota is like all the rest; they make recommendations that are good from a PR standpoint but not so good from the mechanical perspective. Transmission fluid changes, or lack of, is only one of those PR moves.Unfortunately, a lot of mechanics even at the dealership level buy into ill-advised things like this.
If the car manufacturers feel so confident in fluid longevity then let them warranty the transmissions for the life of the vehicle......... This post , when finished is going to prove to you that there are better suited fluids even at Walmart that superceed the characteristics of WS transmission fluid

Get that god awful fluid out of your transmission as soon as you can. The issue with WS is the proven fact that it cant handle the heat and breaks down to acid in a short period of time .

For you guys that have questions regarding warranty coverage ...read this . Its going to explain to you that Toyota Cant deny a warranty claim becuase you changed your transmission fluid to an aftermarket blend .
http://www.zabteck.com/MagnusonMossWarrantyAct.pdf

If you plan to change your transmission fluid and dont plan to use World standard fluid , try to find an aftermarket fluid thats WS endorsed

Question :
(1)Why did Toyota change their transmission fluid to World Standard ( WS ) in 2005 ?

Answer : Selling 168,000 2nd generation tacomas in 2005 , Toyota needed to find a way to avoid hefty environmental fees .Toyota pays an environmental fee for each vehichle they sell to us . This was acheived by introducing WS fluid to the market as a lifetime fluid capable of 100k without as much as a service saving Toyota millions .Toyota wanted you as a customer to beleive that WS was created to save fuel which is simply not true .

(2)Was there anything wrong with the fluid they recommended for their transmissions from 1972 - 2002 ?

Yes , Toyota had to pay environmental fees because the fluid used needed servicing much sooner

(3)Did they do it for reliability ?
WS fluid cant handle any heat . This is extremelly well proven and will back up everything mentioned in this post .There are some proven accounts listed here Genuine Fluids

(4) Did they do it to save their customers money by changing the transmission service interval to 100,000 miles ?

Answer ...No, We know that synthetic tends to flow better when its cold, that it resists shearing better than conventional, that it protects better under high heat conditions, and that in general it usually has a lower NOACK and a higher film strength. WS transmission fluid is not synthetic like Toyota has claimed .

(5)Did they spend countless hours engineering a new transmission fluid that would last forever and was far superior to any other fluid on the market and did the engineers look at what happens when the fluid breaks down ?

Answer . No - Toyota introduced WS fluid to save money on environmental tax fees by telling the government that WS fluid would last 100,000 miles without a service . If you look at the bottom of this post , the contents of WS fluid has been broken down into particulates . Notice anything unusual ? what are the professional oil analysts saying about WS when exposed to heat and why did Toyota suddenly and recently change the transmission service interval from 100k down to 60K? NOTE : check the fees when purchasing your truck

(6)Why does Aisn Warner who make the transmission say that the transmission fluid needs to be changed every 30 k and 25 k under severe use yet Toyota says the fluid is good for 100k ?

(7)What parts within the transmission changed making the new WS fluid necessary ?

The A750 series which was released in 2003 reqiured WS fluid yet the clutching , electronics and converter clutch were similar to the A340 from the early 1990,s . Much the same as the Toyota camry using the identical transmission and clutching yet now requires WS fluid

(8)What is so special about this fancy WS transmission fluid that Toyota recommends for The Aisn Warner A750 series transmission ?

Lets have a peek at the content of WS fluid
The WS fluid is nothing special and not synthetic like Toyata claims . Taking a look at the MSDS for WS fluid designed by Exxon , pay close attention to the flashpoint and you are going to see that WS collapses massively under heat
http://www.kd5byb.net/Tundra/ATF WS MSDS1.pdf

Now take a look at WS fluid designed by Esso and notice the flashpoint is much lower than the Exxon WS but still collapses massively under heat
http://www.kd5byb.net/Tundra/ATF WS MSDS2.pdf

Now take a look at the German blend of WS known as Ravenol . In the link provided , you are going to see that WS is used in many different vehicles in Europe . What we can conclude from this is that WS is not specific to Toyota . Still waiting for an msds from Ravenol to compare against the North American blends . I highly expect a totally different fluid similar to Max Life
RAVENOL ATF T-WS Lifetime

KV 100C just below 6cSt
BV -40C about 8500cP
20 hour KRL shear 10% vis loss
FZG a/8.3/90 9 LS
Foam
Seq I 30/0
Seq II 40/0
Seq III 20/0
Seq IV 30/0
The VM collapses massively under thermal stress.


Lets have a look at valvoline Maxlife that can be purchased from your local Wallmart .
Here is the PDF . Pay close attention to the viscosity and flaspoint . Max life does not collapse massively when its exposed to the same heat stress as WS . There is very little viscosity breakdown .
PI Sheets

THOMAS R. SMITH
Vice President, Branded Lubricant Technology
Ashland Consumer Markets
August 22, 2011

To Whom It May Concern:
MaxLife ATF is a full synthetic automatic transmission fluid designed to meet the needs of the broadest range of transmission designs. MaxLife ATF recommendations are based on a combination of field testing and laboratory testing.
Valvoline recommends MaxLife ATF in a broad range of transmissions. The list below is just a sample of applications where Valvoline supports the use of MaxLife ATF. Valvoline has conducted in-house testing, independent lab testing, and field-testing to support MaxLife ATF performance in these transmissions; however, it is important to note that the respective vehicle manufacturers have neither evaluated nor approved MaxLife ATF in these applications.
• Allison TES 389, C-4
• ATF 3403 M115
• Audi/VW G-052-025-A1/A2, G-055-025, G-052-162-A1/A2, G-055-005-A1/A2, G-055-162, G-060-162-A1/A2
• BMW LT71141, LA2634, M-1375.4 fluids
• Ford[IMG] MERCON
• Ford FNR5
• Ford MERCON® V
• Ford MERCON® SP
• MERCON® LV
• GM 9986195
• GM DEXRON® II, III and VI
• Honda/Acura ATF-Z, DW-1 (except in CVTs)
• Hyundai SP-II, SP-III, SP-IV, and SPH-IV
• Jaguar JLM20238, LT71141
• JWS 3309
• KIA SP-II and SP-III Fluids
• KIA Red 1
• MAN 339 Type F
• Mazda M-V
• Mercedes Benz MB236.1, MB236.6, MB236.7, MB236.9, MB236.10
• Mercedes Benz NAG-1
• MOPAR AS68RC ATF
• Miscellaneous OEMs – M1375.4
• Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II and SP-III
• Nissan Matic-D, Matic-J, Matic-K, and Matic-S
• Saab 93 165 147
• Subaru ATF
• Subaru ATF-HP
• Toyota / Lexus Type T, T-III and T-IV
• Toyota WS (except Hybrid vehicles[IMG])
• Voith H55.6336.33 (G1363), H55.6335.33 (G607)
• Volvo 1161521 and 1161540, and STD 1273.41
• VW TL52162
• ZF TE-ML-14B, 16L, 17C
Valvoline stands behind all of its products, including MaxLife ATF. Use of MaxLife ATF in transmissions where recommended by Valvoline WILL NOT void the vehicle’s warranty. Vehicle manufacturers are restricted by federal law from including the requirement of the use of a specific brand or trade name of product or service as a condition of their warranty. The following is an extract from the Federal Trade Commission’s web site on interpretation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act:
"Tie-In Sales" Provisions Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.
In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have
scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.
Valvoline has conducted extensive testing and has a long history of successful use of MaxLife ATF in a broad range of applications. In the unlikely event that you or your customer experiences any transmission damage while using MaxLife ATF in a Valvoline recommended application, please contact Valvoline at 1-800-Team-VAL for assistance.
While MaxLife ATF is designed to meet the special needs of higher mileage transmissions, new transmissions can also benefit from its enhanced oxidation protection, shear stability, seal compatibility, wear protection and anti-shudder protection. Many consumers have chosen to take advantage of this level of performance in newer transmissions.
Valvoline does not recommend MaxLife ATF for use in most continuously variable transmissions (CVTs) unless specifically noted nor in automatic transmissions where Ford Type F fluids are recommended.
Sincerely,
Thom Smith
Vice President, Branded Lubricant Technology
Ashland Consumer Markets"
[/QUOTE]
To me, don’t use Maxlife transmission fluid in Honda and Toyota. I use Maxlife in my Honda Odyssey and transmission blew on a trip from Portland to Boise, cost $3,700 for a rebuild transmission. My 2006 Tacoma, the same using Maxlife to save a few bucks, transmission also went bad. Cost $4000 to replace. now, I just stick with Toyota genuine WS transmission fluid. MAXLIFE IS NOT FOR HONDA OR TOYOTA TRANSMISSION.

 

I've changed the fluid (transmission cooler method) on two Toyotas: 05 Avalon and 05 Solara. MaxLife in both, both felt better after new fluud, no negative effects to either car.

 

Posted by BrianMH above:

To me, don’t use Maxlife transmission fluid in Honda and Toyota. I use Maxlife in my Honda Odyssey and transmission blew on a trip from Portland to Boise, cost $3,700 for a rebuild transmission. My 2006 Tacoma, the same using Maxlife to save a few bucks, transmission also went bad. Cost $4000 to replace. now, I just stick with Toyota genuine WS transmission fluid. MAXLIFE IS NOT FOR HONDA OR TOYOTA TRANSMISSION.

Your Honda blew because it uses a CVT fluid - first introduced by that company in 1995. There are 1000s of people over at tacomaworld.com who use Maxlife w/o issue. If your '06 Tacoma blew, it's because it was already going downhill or you failed to follow a very specific fill procedure outlined in the service manual. No dip stick starting in 2005 for that truck.

Maxlife and Walmarts Dex-VI work just fine in vehicles requiring WS. Again, your Honda blew because you used an ATF not suited for CVT units.

 

Well here is my 2 cents: I had every intension of following Toyota's guidelines for my Avalon but at 89K the original WS fluid looked like crap. I changed the fluid and filter and 2 more times in a month to get a total fluid change. I used WS It showed aged 3k later and started to slip in 1st gear. It was fine in all other gears. The shop replaced it with an accident tranny and would only put WS in it. This tranny has 10k more miles on it (103K) and the fluid is showing signs of age. I planned to change it at 30k but now planning to one now with MaxLife another at 20k and the third at 30k. That is if the remaining 2/3 of WS can last that long....

 

I’m running the WS.
Similar to Gatorade in the movie Idiocracy, it’s got what Toyota transmissions need.

 

FWIW, Toyota WS is made by Mobil 1. I change ATF on our Toyotas every 50,000 miles despite what the factory shop and owner's manual says and ALWAYS use Toyota WS.

 

Have you dropped the pan yet on any those, I am curious as a cat!

 

WELL THIS IS THE ONE CHOICE THAT WAS THE MOST CONFUSING WITH SOME PEOPLE SAY WHATS IN YOUR OWNERS MANUAL IS WHAT YOU PUT IN BUT IS IT THAT SIMPLE. WELL I HAVE A EARLY 2007 AVALON WITH THE 5 SPEED U151e TRANSMISSION WHICH HAS BEEN USED FOR AWHILE IN VARIOUS TOYOTA VEHICLES PRIOR TO 2007 DEPENDING ON THE MODEL YEAR IT WILL EITHER CALL FOR WS (NEWER YEARS ANYTHING 2005 + FORGET THE YEARS ) OR OLDER EARLY 2000'S T-IV FLUID SPEC SOME MODELS CALLED FOR T-IV ONE YEAR THE NEXT WS FLUID SPEC WITH NO CHANGE TO THE TRANSMISSION. SO I DECIDED IM GOING TO GET SCAFERS OIL 205A Dexron® VI/MERCON® LV Automatic Transmission Fluid IT MEETS THE Toyota WS (JWS 3324) SPEC (MY CAR OEM ATF FILL) ALTHOUGH ON HIGH END OF VISCOSITY RANGE 5.8-6.2 MAX IS 6.0 BELIEVE T-IV IS 7-8 THERE ARE A LOT OF MULTI VEHICLE ATF'S AROUND 7 AVAILABLE AS WELL BUT IM NOT REPLACING ALL FLUID SO WS SPEC MIXING WITH OLD OEM WS SOUNDS BETTER AND I BELIEVE THIS FLUID IS MOST LIKELY OF BETTER QUALITY THAN CURRENT OEM TOYOTA WS ATF IN MY HUMBLE OPINION BUT IF YOU CHOSE OEM OR MAXLIFE THAT PROBABLY WORKS AS WELL AS I HAVE READ FROM MANY POSTS. IS IT A WASTE OF MONEY? MAYBE BUT WHO KNOWS MAYBE IT WILL PROVIDE BETTER PROTECTION THE CHOICE
IS YOURS DO SOME RESEARCH LOOK AT SPEC SHEETS BE LEARY OF SPEC SHEETS WITH VERY LITTLE INFO. HERE IS A PAGE FROM A SERVICE MANUAL

IT CALLS FOR T-IV MY CAR OWNER'S MANUAL WS ATF.

 

Yes I dropped the pan and replaced the filter after 80,000 miles. The fluid wasn't red anymore but no sludge or metal bits stuck on the magnets.

I've seen it in writing somewhere plus SMEs on Bob Is the Oil Guy forum mentioned that.

 

I found the OEM manufactuer! You can buy the juice on Amazon!

Amazon.com: Idemitsu ATF Type TLS-LV (WS) Automatic Transmission Fluid for Toyota, Lexus, Scion - 5QT : Automotive

Buy Idemitsu ATF Type TLS-LV (WS) Automatic Transmission Fluid for Toyota, Lexus, Scion - 5QT: Transmission Fluids - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Idemitsu 30040096-95300C020 ATF Type TLS-LV (WS) Automatic Transmission Fluid for Toyota/Lexus/Scion-5 Quart

 

Toyota has multiple suppliers for their fluids. Each market/plant in every country could be difference.

ExxonMobil is a pretty big Toyota supplier for the US market. Eneos, Idemitsu, SOPUS, BP, SK... are all in on it too.
Mobil1 is a brand made by XOM. So, Mobil1 has NEVER made Toyota fluid but XOM has.

Bobistheoilguy also has too many members that don't have a clue or suffer from mental disease. Not even worth mentioning that site anymore. Most of the good members have moved on or passed on. Its been a regular 'boner brand product" or sponsor's product pusher since the theoildrop days. Nothing has changed. Good luck finding the one good thread every few months on months forums now.
Don't they have meds for this:

Pictures of a oil hoarder??? moving his stash across country

Moving my stash across country. Attached are pictures of the move. I was able to load about 70 percent. The other 30 percent will go on the trailer in small, individual boxes. Three layers, using a waterproof box 48x40 by I don't know how tall. The key to all of this was making a cardboard...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

I've been wondering about this, also. TL;DR: I'm about to refill with WS for the extra certainty, but I'm confident that the MaxLife is just fine.

I had to drain the fluid on my '07 XLS with 180k, due to replacing one of the CV axles. Thus the question of, what do I fill it back up with? Just to be on the safe side, I'm going to use WS. This is because this is my first-ever replacement of a drive axle, and so I want to isolate any potential future issues with the axle or the transmission to just the axle replacement itself. In other words, I can rule out the fluid since I used "what the OEM says I should."

Still, I was curious about how different WS could be from MaxLife full-synth ATF. I sent a fresh-oil sample of each to Blackstone, and paid the $10 on each sample for a TAN test as well.

Ultimately, they tested out pretty similar. To be fair, there's only so much that a $30-40 analysis from Blackstone can tell us, but it's more information than I had before.

Blackstone's comments on the WS:
"Here's the virgin sample of Toyota WS ATF, and it should do well in its intended use. ATF doesn't usually contain as much additive as engine oils do. This one primarily uses boron, calcium, and phosphorus. No obvious contamination was present, and the viscosity was appropriate to an ATF. We perform a TAN (Total Acid Number) on transmission oil since it's more applicable than a TBN. At 1.2, it reveals only mild acidity."

Blackstone comments on the MaxLife ATF:
"Here's the sample of virgin Valvoline MaxLife ATF. It's not uncommon to find a little trace metal in unused fluid, and the 1 ppm of iron isn't a big deal. This ATF also uses boron, calcium, and phosphorus as additives, though in larger quantities. No contamination turned up, and the viscosity of this sample was also appropriate to ATF. As with the Toyota ATF, the 1.3 TAN shows only mild acidity. This fluid should do well in its intended use, too."

Notable numbers with differences - WS vs MaxLife

Elements
Iron: 0 ppm in WS, versus 1 ppm in MaxLife
Molybdenum: 0 ppm, 1 ppm
Boron: 70 ppm, 171 ppm
Silicon: 5 ppm, 0 ppm
Calcium: 141 ppm, 205 ppm
Magnesium: 1 ppm, 2 ppm
Phosphorus: 297 ppm, 461 ppm
Zinc: 10 ppm in WS, 3 ppm in MaxLife

Fluid Properties
SUS Viscosity @ 210 degF: 44.0 in WS, versus 46.4 in MaxLife
cSt Viscosity @ 100 degC: 5.40, 6.17
Flashpoint in degF: 360, 390
TAN: 1.2, 1.3

So, what does this tell me? I'm not sure, beyond what Blackstone stated in their comments. I do, however, feel like MaxLife is likely the same or better in the Toyota/Aisin application. That seems to track with my overall feel of the WS-vs-MaxLife discussion here, on BobIsTheOilGuy, and on TacomaWorld.

Like I said, I'm going to refill this time with WS, and the mild tears from my wallet as an additive. It was kind of expensive, and no, I'm not confident that it's "superior" to non-OEM fluids. We'll see what happens. Also, I intend to send the used-fluid sample to Blackstone - hopefully I'll remember to create a new thread here with that information too, alongside a copy of what I've posted in this thread.

Keep lubricated and drive on!

 

I'm going to use Amsoil Signature Series ATF when I change the trans fluid in my 11 Limited. I had a drain and refill done at the Toyota dealer at around 55,000 miles and some years ago. I want all fresh fluid in my transmission this time

 

Interesting - I’m curious how it works out. Might I ask what draws you to Amsoil’s ATF specifically?

I hear a little bit about Amsoil for engine oil. ATF being less common… I don’t think I’ve yet heard much about Amsoil ATF.

In fairness, previous commenter’s post about, “one person yaks, then the yak brigade starts repeating,” is well taken. I’m not sure that I really know more about a lubricant just because I’ve read forum comments about it.

Anyway, curious for your thoughts.