3 Cost Penalties.. 1 for the Hybrid Synergy Drive, 1 for Diesel Engine, and 1 for the particulate traps and other technologies to clean up the diesel.

Direct Injection Gasoline Engines are closing the gap on diesel efficiency and are far, far cleaner even than todays gasoline engines.. Toyota has several in production..

 

3 Cost Penalties.. 1 for the Hybrid Synergy Drive, 1 for Diesel Engine, and 1 for the particulate traps and other technologies to clean up the diesel.

Direct Injection Gasoline Engines are closing the gap on diesel efficiency and are far, far cleaner even than todays gasoline engines.. Toyota has several in production..

Finally a HUGE cost penalty...the cost of the fuel itself. As long as diesel fuel here in NA is 25% higher than gasoline, then diesel is D E A D.

 

Now how does that compare to the NEW diesels that companies like Audi are using?

 

I think it's because diesels suck.

 

You apparently don't have a clue. Join adult conversations when you have something worthy to say.

 

The only issue I see is the system as it works now shuts off the engine completely. Maybe something can be done about that?

Much of the efficiency of a hybrid internal combustion engine / electric motor vehicle comes from shutting off the engine when there is no load on it. Shut it off when it is not charging the battery or when it is not helping the motor to power the vehicle, otherwise you just lose all the potential energy of the spinning engine as heat. According to numbers I have seen, 17% of the energy available from the fuel is wasted when idling. This is especially important in mild hybrids (where the electric motor cannot by itself drive the vehicle) such as the GM Belt-Alternator-Starter (BAS) hybrid and Honda's early generation Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) hybrid. This is why Toyota's hybrids consume so much fuel when the engine is cold or the weather outside is cold: the engine is not shut off when the car is stopped.

Or maybe just use the diesel like a locomotive does, as a generator only. Makes sense to me. Let me know your thoughts.

In a standard diesel-electric locomotive, the diesel engine is always running because it is used as a generator to power electric traction motors. The diesel engine is running very efficiently because it is running under a constant load, at its most efficient engine speed, so that losses are minimal. In the locomotive, there are no batteries, so the generator provides the electrical power to directly spin the electric motors that drive the locomotive.

I think the way to go is to have the generator (gas or diesel engine) charge batteries, and the vehicle driven only by the electric motors (electric motors are 75% efficient whereas a normal gas drivetrain (engine and transmission) in a normal car is only about 20% efficient). The electric motors would get their power from the batteries, and would also recharge the batteries when braking. This is the way some hybrid buses now work, and the way that the Chevrolet Volt will work. The problem is that the engine-generator should be run on a regular basis to avoid problems with the engine and to use up fuel that could go stale.

With that said, I think that the best way to avoid problems with an engine that runs so few times is to get rid of it altogether. Have a plug-in electric car as the daily driver, and then take the bus or the train for longer distances. Or, if there is enough range in the batteries to run at highway speeds for about 2 or 3 hours, provide recharging stations at the roadside rest stops where the electric car can be quick-recharged in about an hour. The driver and passengers could have a break, have a snack or meal and go to the washroom during the time the car is charging.

 

An all electric car makes more sense, but we all know that it is not practical with our current infrastructure.

 

I don't see why not. If the infrastructure can support plug-in electric hybrids, it can support electric vehicles: just plug it into the wall when you need to recharge it. Otherwise, why would there be electric cars now selling, like the Tesla electric car?

With the extra weight of the engine removed, the car would be much lighter, and the electric car would likely have much greater range, perhaps doubling -- or more -- the claimed 40-mile range of the Volt. (The Saturn EV1 electric car had a range of about 75 miles on a fully-charged battery, and those were heavy lead-acid batteries. With newer battery technology, I am sure the range could have been greater.) I think the electric car would be the perfect commuter / (short-range) daily-driver vehicle.

 

I'm speaking more about the wide open spaces where you may drive 30-100 miles between rest stops and civilization.

 

...that is why I suggested recharging stations at the current rest stops. I am not that familiar with the Interstate system in the USA, but here in the provinces of Ontario and Quebec, there are rest stops every 80km / 50miles or so on the provincial highways. Some are nothing more than primitive washroom facilities (with lights, so electricity is there) with some picnic tables, while others are full fast-food restaurants with gas bars. If the fast-recharging system is packaged in the car, and not a separate box, then the electric car can be plugged in and recharged anywhere there is an electrical outlet.

Or, take the bus or train for those long trips. Or, rent a normal car for those long trips. The HEV is not that more efficient at long-range, high-speed running anyways, so a normal car will be almost as efficient as the HEV on the highway.

If the driver HAS to drive that distance on a daily basis, then the serial hybrid vehicle (where the engine ONLY charges the battery and does not drive the car) would be a good bet, I think.

 

Heavy combo...Correct me if im wrong but aren't diesel engines very heavy?

 

You can get away with a 1-1.3 liter turbo diesel and it should weigh about the same. Remember, diesels are all torque. Even a small one will pull a car nice.

 

Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen. In case you haven't noticed (or cared to notice), General Motors (who else?) is already at the forefront with diesel/electric motor coupling.
In fact, GM's 'E-Flex' system is designed specifically around the diesel parameter.

Volts with gas engines will be first, but Volt-like cars and trucks based on GM's e-Flex platform will most certainly follow...

E-Flex also allows for other fuel systems to be used instead of the ICE range extender/battery. If battery technology reaches an adequate level of development, a battery only plug-in variant could easily be produced.

The biggest complaint from EV1 customers was "I was tired of planning my life around my next charge". With the range extending capability of this platform, this complaint is no longer an issue. A biodiesel variant of this application might even close in a thousand mile range on a tank of fuel.

 

Thanks PMC, that's why I don't mind you much. (Sorry, I just don't like Vmax much) You bring good points without too much bashing. I missed that one from GM. Let us hope that they actually make it, because that makes the most sense to me. GM does understand just how wide the open spaces of America really are. I mean they should, they are American. I just fear that they will make it too bulky and negate the good points of the system.

 

Yeah, I'm from the Mid-West and there are some lengths of highway that won't have a rest stop of any type for 60 miles. Heck, even this way on the east coast, there are parts in Pennsylvania that have 50+ mile intervals between rest stops. I won't even talk about the desert South-West! Also, trains and buses don't go everywhere. So that is exactly why I was thinking about the diesel. I'm even thinking of buying a VW diesel of some sort, just for long trips. I want a bike, but I can't fit my kids on a bike. lol

 

So, E-Flex as a viable platform that will not only see service on the compact/mid-sized Volt, but trucks, as well. As the literature claims, "A biodiesel variant of this application might even close in a thousand mile range on a tank of fuel."
A thousand miles between fill-ups in a little diesel tank.
Toyota should be afraid.
Very, very afraid.

 

Diesels do suck. They are smellier, heavier, and are louder than their gasoline couterparts, plus the need for a turbo in most applications. A 1.1 liter diesel is still bigger and heavier than 1.5 liter gas engine. The diesel's higher compression requires a stronger block and head....and stronger means bigger, and bigger means more weight (generally speaking).

I'm not saying diesel hybrid isn't going to happen, but I can see why it hasn't happened yet......the downsides outweigh the +'s.

 

Diesels do suck. They are smellier, heavier, and are louder than their gasoline couterparts, plus the need for a turbo in most applications. A 1.1 liter diesel is still bigger and heavier than 1.5 liter gas engine. The diesel's higher compression requires a stronger block and head....and stronger means bigger, and bigger means more weight (generally speaking).

I'm not saying diesel hybrid isn't going to happen, but I can see why it hasn't happened yet......the downsides outweigh the +'s.

I agree and there is always the premium ($) over a gas engine.

 

I think you guys should research the TDI technology. Have you driven a car with TDI? Have you worked on a car with TDI? Or are you just basing your views on tractor trailers and old Mercedes?

 

Give me a break. Yes I've driven a VW TDI....not impressed. Gas mileage is good, but so what if I can't stand the experience. I was in a parking garage in SF, and I heard what sounded like a F-350 coming up behind me.....when I turned around it was a Mercedes Bluetec. Obviously that isn't entirely fair because a parking garage is concrete on all sides (thus allowing for more echoing/noise), but it still isn't as quiet as they'd like it to be.

 

The new diesels with the new blocks are lighter and with the new piston design are just as quiet as gas engines.
However several truckers well not truckers but heavy truck users here in houston are complaining that the new additives in gas are hurting MPG numbers and are using more diesel so they burn cleaner but they say are using more diesel per mile.

So if this is true, as im going only by what truck users here are saying.
While diesel may now be cleaner, lighter and quieter. Is the MPG of diesel being hurt by the detergents and aditives?

 

The deal is though, you get more miles from that one gallon of diesel than you get from a gallon of gas. This makes it more economical overall. Also, new diesels have been designed to meet and exceed all the standards. They are a bit noisier, but then again, if I have to put up with all the ricers (there is a difference between import car drivers and ricers) with their $50 ebay fart can mufflers, I can deal with a diesel. A diesel running isn't any louder than say a Hemi powered car with an aftermarket exhaust, it is just different and most people automatically join diesel with dirty and loud so it seems worse to you. On the other hand, most people would have said the Hemi car had a good sound. It is all psychology.That is most people's problems, they never research and just take the little things that they know or think that they know and draw a incorrect conclusion.

 

^ If gas were $1.00 per gallon, I'd rather have a Hemi too!

 

Mercedes has been working on a diesel hybrid S class for some time. Though merc4des has been quoted as saying that they don't believe hybrid technology is the answer and has admitted the only reason they are building them is because the market dictates it.

The main reason you don't see more diesels in North America is simple. North Americans have an aversion to diesel vehicles. "We" think they are dirty, noisy and underpowered so the manufacturers don't want to spend money on bringing the technology to such a small market. (Yes, "small" market as on a worldwide scale, we are considered a fairly small area which is why many cars were never brought here by European companies.)

Point blank simple answer to the question is just that. "We" don't generally like diesels. It's also one reason the smart 451 is gas only since the redesign. Even overseas, diesel smarts only comprised 10-12% of production.

You also have to realize that the new emission standards brought out this year on diesels have caused the large diesel pickups to become as bad as gas versions on fuel and also on top of that, in many areas of the U.S., diesel is a good $1.00 a gallon MORE than gasoline and is expected to climb as the oil companies have had to invest a few billion dollars in equipment to make the new "clean" diesel fuels.

 

Actually back on the weight issue Toyota did make an aluminum block diesel engine for the newest Corolla which is actually lightweight. This could be a solution...?

Why is diesel more expesive than gasoline anyways?

 

Why is diesel more expensive than gasoline anyways?

Apparently. It's because of the new "clean" diesel. before this, diesel and Home heating fuel (same thing) were a "byproduct" of making gasoline.

This is no longer true as in order to make the new "clean" diesel, diesel now has a much more complicated refining process requiring new equipment and steps to do so.