you do not mention 4 or 6 cylinder, but these rules still apply......

just to give you some "insight", those readings of 185-195 are ok, and so would be 141...(all across the board)

now to further educate you, if say one cylinder read, 100, and the others read 185....what you would do is shoot a little bit of oil into the low cylinder.....if the reading jumps up to say abut 140 and above, then you know you have bad rings.

if the reading does NOT jump up..?? then you know you have bad valves.

i would suspect that for now, your compression is good, rings and valves are good, but you might need valve seals.

you could also try a "thicker" Mobil One, or switch brands to another synthetic for a while...

to me, with over 200,000 miles, your engine still "seems" to be rather tight.

 

if say one cylinder read, 100, and the others read 185....what you would do is shoot a little bit of oil into the low cylinder.....if the reading jumps up to say abut 140 and above, then you know you have bad rings.

^this is good info. subaru owners know this stuff like clockwork haha cuz they lose #4 alllll the time


I recently noticed a slight consumption with my 04 2.4l, was down mayyybe 1/4 quart after 4k miles-- its got 190k -- but I tossed in Seafoam for that oil change, so I'm hoping that was why it used some oil...


I too use Mobil 1 either 5 or 10w-30 synthetic high mileage...

 

^ check the title. 2.4L 4cyl

 

Thanks for the help. I have also noticed that my MPG has dropped a bit especially in city driving. I do a lot of highway driving... maybe 70-30% but my average per tank has dropped from 30-32MPG to 26-30MPG. This is over the past two years and there have been gas formulation changes in my state but it still seems higher than normal. I have never done the 50K mile valve shim check and imagine that if I did I would need to replace a few of them if not all. Could this be a source for higher than normal compression and thus oil consumption? I have also never replaced the catalytic converter and have been wondering if that is the cause of my decreasing MPG and the higher than expected compression numbers? Any opinions? Is there an easy way to rule out the catalytic converter? I plan on doing the valve shim check in the next month or so when I have time. The car runs fine and idles OK. Seems to have adequate power.

 

depending on your state emission laws, as long as your car passes the tests, there is no need to replace the cat. when the car is COLD..you can get under the car, and using your fist, you can hit the cat and if you hear any "rattles", then at the most you have a broken up liner. this in of itself DOES NOT warrant a replacement. if your state has the PZEV mandate like California, and a few other states, i think the emissions warranty is good for 15 years..???? so you would still be covered to get the cat (and ANY OTHER) emissions device replaced for FREE..!! maybe except labor charges..??

i would for the time being put partial blame on the changes in gasoline formulas. i have friends that live in Nevada, and California, and they too tell me their gas miles stinks.

as for the valve adjustments..??? i WOULD have that done ASAP, then recheck your compression readings. the un-adjusted vales will not allow them to open up properly, and this "could" result in the higher readings. once adjusted, those readings "should" come down a bit, but not so much that it would indicate engine problems.

for the miles you have, i still "suspect" valve stem seals, which others here have said, it is not TOO COSTLY to have done. in fact, while the valves are being adjusted..?? you can have it done then.....

i would still refer to the owners manual, and check on the viscosity oil you can use, and maybe use a slightly thicker Mobil One, or other brand synthetic.

 

Has anyone done their own valve stem seals? What did you use to pull the valve springs? It looks like you can't just use a normal valve spring compressor due to how deep the valve springs sit in the head. I noticed that a company called Valve Master makes a tool specifically for the 2AZFE... Has anyone ever used it?

http://www.toyotool.com/index.htm

 

i have not used that tool but tell you what, it is slick...also...you do realize the head was on a bench, and not in the car...right...????

you should probably want to have an air compressor with an adapter in which you use the spark plug hole, and you NEED constant air......this will keep the valves closed.

if you feel confident to do the job yourself, then do so..other wise, you'd be better off having a shop do this for you. there are independent shops that specialize in toyota repairs, not just the dealerships.

 

I gave up on compression testers long ago. The only REAL information you can gain from using one is the variance between cylinders assuming each cylinder was tested the exact same way.

A leakdown test is much more accurate and can tell you sooooo much more information. I do it to EVERY engine I work on the make sure its capable of running well before throwing parts at it.

But it cant diagnose bad VSS. Of course thats easy to check. Look at the mileage. My estimate for a VSS to have run its useful life is about 100k. ANY kind of rubber stuck in a hot oil environment degrades quickly. The VSS get a constant very hot soaking. Something like spark plug well seals get it almost as bad and I'm sure by the time you replaced them they were hard as a rock.

If you're going to do valve clearance then you might as well do the VSS too. VERY suprisingly, Snap-on has a valve keeper tool that is MUCH less than the one linked earlier. Most use air to keep the valves in place while removing springs and keepers but another trick is filling the cylinder with cord and raising the piston to keep the valves in place.

The funnest part of the job will be actual removal of the VSS since they are so hard. Dont be surprised if they break. Make sure you remove all the pieces.

Have fun. Work smart!

-SP

 

I gave up on compression testers long ago. The only REAL information you can gain from using one is the variance between cylinders assuming each cylinder was tested the exact same way.

A leakdown test is much more accurate and can tell you sooooo much more information. I do it to EVERY engine I work on the make sure its capable of running well before throwing parts at it.

But it cant diagnose bad VSS. Of course thats easy to check. Look at the mileage. My estimate for a VSS to have run its useful life is about 100k. ANY kind of rubber stuck in a hot oil environment degrades quickly. The VSS get a constant very hot soaking. Something like spark plug well seals get it almost as bad and I'm sure by the time you replaced them they were hard as a rock.

If you're going to do valve clearance then you might as well do the VSS too. VERY suprisingly, Snap-on has a valve keeper tool that is MUCH less than the one linked earlier. Most use air to keep the valves in place while removing springs and keepers but another trick is filling the cylinder with cord and raising the piston to keep the valves in place.

The funnest part of the job will be actual removal of the VSS since they are so hard. Dont be surprised if they break. Make sure you remove all the pieces.

Have fun. Work smart!

-SP

SP,

Thank you for the reply. I am actually kind of iffy on whether or not to even do anything with the car. I am at 210K miles and plan on driving it to 300k or more. Looking at oem parts to change out the lifters, new stem seals and retainers plus the cost of the keeper tool I am looking at close to $400. I did a quick check the other day of my lifter clearances and everything is out of spec except for two of the exhaust lifters which are at the upper limit. I am only losing 1 qt every ~4k miles. Would you advise doing this work or just keep driving the car?

Also, Thank you for the heads up on the Snap-on tool. I do have a question, though. The Valve Master Valve Keeper tool is labeled as being specifically made for the 2AZFE due to "the keepers being set deep inside the retainer"... Does this really matter? Will the Snap-on work just as well? Also, how much air pressure should I use to keep the valves in place?

Thank you for your help!

 

Im not gonna start a flame war here but ive worked in a shop for a long, long time. The only time anyone changes valve stems is if your in there for another reason. Ive done it once in a situation like this one and trust me, the customer paid. No mechanic is gonna jump for joy. At least non that I've met.

The jobs that make shops jump for joy are common. Hell when I was 16 I was pulling GM 3800 lower intakes and jumping for joy, but that's because we'd get 2-3 of them in a week.

Your just assuming that he cant handle this job. Theres no evidence in this thread that says that. Being a mechanic isn't complicated and this is coming from someone that's spent a goooood amount of time in a shop.

 

Fire- I think you can mostly ignore the posts since I last wrote. It doesnt matter who made the tool. If you're going to own more than one car with some miles you might want something that works on other stuff too.

You dont change lifters, you change the shims under them. (unless Camrys have some weird thing I dont know about!) If they are a bit loose thats OK. You get problems when they get too tight. Your oil consumption is actually pretty good! I only get 700 mi to a quart, but the 35 mpg in my corolla makes up for it. Dont change to another oil. I tried the high mileage oils and they didnt do squat.

Air pressure in the cylinder when removing retainers? Whatcha got? my compressor kicks on at 80 psi so I never worried about it.

Have fun with your mechanical work. By the way you write I have confidence in your abilities and you'll do a good job.

-SP

 

if he ignores all the posts since YOU last posted, he's in a heap of shiot.....

when he messes up, and he will, you gonna be there when he needs help..??

he has not done this type of work before, you think it's a good idea he tackle it all by himself..?? he's going to need someone by his side to guide him through.

true, regarding the tool and who made it, as i said, there are only so many manufactures here in the US that make tools, and brand them for other companies. i cannot see him buying an expensive tool he will only use one time.

for him, he would be better served to go to a garage and pay someone to do this. will it cost money..?? sure, but he will get some type of warranty as well.

so you too worked in a garage..?? good for you....as i stated i did as well.....and i believe that unless he has someone close by that can guide him through all of this, he ought to stay away from it altogether.

it IS NOT as easy as i said, like replacing a battery or brake pads....one screw up, and a valve is going into the cylinder. then HE WILL BE looking at removing the head.

as YOU KNOW, he MUST PERFECTLY align the crankshaft to properly and TIGHTLY seal off any air leakage.....i just do not see him doing this, with out help CLOSE BY.....all it will take is one degree off...and the engine will spin...then good bye easy job....

 

I was wondering if you guys could provide me with a little bit more help. I replaced the valve stem seals... It went fairly smooth without any hiccups. I still have everything apart waiting for a couple new valve shims (lifters per the manual) to come in. My question is with the retainer locks. When I used the tool to pull the retainers it magnetized the retainer locks. I reused the retainer locks and when I reinstalled the retainers a lot of the retainer locks didnt keep an even gap on each side... They made contact on one side and there is a semi large gap on the other side. I tried to redo a few of them but since they became magnetized its hard to get them to not make contact. Is this a problem?

 

with out pics, i cannot tell you if some of the gap is normal or not.

you could have just as easily installed them in such a way, that one side is not in the grooves properly. you can use a bit of grease to hold them onto the valve stem when you release the magnet. or you can use vasoline as well. neither will cause any problems. i do believe there is an engine assembly grease you can use, but you have to go and look for it at the stores.

now, IF both sides of the valve keeper locks are even with each other, then that gap may be a normal gap. BUT......every engine i have ever built, the valve keeper locks butted up together with NO gap.

usually, when the valves are installed, i would get a rubber mallet, and whack them to seat the keeper locks. it's an old mechanics trick. you can try that before you do anything else...

try and provide pics for us if you can, and if the pics are blurred, that will not help us either....

 

holy cow....i have NEVER seen such a gap like that....the only thing i can say is, if they are ALL like this when you finished, it's got to be normal. too bad you didn't notice this BEFORE you took it all apart.

even if the keepers were NOT in the proper grooves, the valve would NOT even install, as it would lock it tight well below the valve, which it appears, it is not an improper install. all valve keepers i have ever dealt with, are identical in size, so for instance, no one side is larger than the other.

 

ok, i found some pics here......http://lextreme.com/valve_seals.html

if you look at those keepers, THERE IS a gap, equal to the gap you have, but, it is evenly spaced on each side...(you have to scroll down)

i feel MORE comfortable the way this web site shows the split, then the HUGE gap you have on one side......

the valve keepers may or may not rotate, as the valves go up and down.

i do not think there is much you can do, when you scroll down more, you will see the large gap again....whether or not it is a new seal he already installed or not, there is a large gap.

 

Sometimes it's possible that the keepers butt up against each other. What I do is insert the tip of a pick just enough to even the gaps out.

When you can see the gaps it's easier to make sure the keepers are properly seated. Because if they're not the keepers may pop out later. That said your gaps look a bit too wide. I wonder if they're properly seated or maybe it's camera angle and distance. I use the magnetic extractor and a lever type compressor to install the keepers. For me it's easier to use no grease or oil, but it's often recommended.

^+1. Always lightly tap the end of the stem with a rubber/wood/brass hammer to make sure the keepers don't pop out and are properly seated. This step is a must. Use a wooden dowel if needed (so you tap on the stem and not the upper spring seat).

Also, you can compare the gaps and how far the valve stems stick out above them in cylinders that you haven't touched (too late?). I'd also measure the distance from the spring seat to the top of the stem seals with a $2 plastic caliper from Harbor Freight (instead of the 90 degree pick in the DIY) to make sure the seals are fully seated. The seals are a tight fit and I personally never felt the "click" some claimed to have felt. If not properly seated they can come loose and you're going to use a lot of oil later.

 

The valve on the left looks properly done but the one on the right doesnt have the keepers in place on the valve's groove. The keepers are ABOVE the valve tip.

No the keepers can have a smaller "gap" on one side or the other, Thats perfectly normal. They are not designed to take up the whole space so that they are held tightly in place by the spring and retainer.

-SP

 

Well, unfortunately I didn't see all of the replies and I already put the car back together.:facepalm:

I went through and redid all of the valve keepers that were butted up together on one end. Most of them are not perfect but they do look a little better. I figured if there was a gap on both sides that they should be good? I wish I had the lever type tool when I put everything back together, johngd... I bet it would have made for a better and faster job. On most of the valve retainer locks it took at least 10 tries just to get a gap on both sides. If I ever do this again I will spend the money on one.

As far as the valve seals go, I used a 10mm socket and a rubber mallet to tap them all in place. I gave them a good whack but never heard a click. I soaked all of the valve seals in oil before installing so if there was a click the oil may have muffled it. I didn't know how to verify that the seals seated but I did eyeball them to the originals. They are fairly recessed so who knows. I plan on keeping a close eye on my oil consumption which I believe is the only thing I can do to check at this point.

I also didn't tap all of the valve stems to verify that the keepers were seated??? I just eyeballed how much stem was above the keepers and they all appeared to be equal. The picture that I gave had a bad angle as there was as much stem showing on the stem with the uneven gapped keepers as there was on the one next to it. I have driven the car 20 miles since putting it back together so I am guessing that everything is OK?

While I am listing everything I did wrong I might as well mention something else I noticed in case someone else comes across this thread looking to do this job for the first time as well. I blocked off the oil passeges with paper towels just in case a retainer lock got loose. After removing the paper towels I realized that I should have used cloth as the casting in the oil passages is pretty rough and I found some large pieces of lint caught on the sharp edges. It took up a few minutes to go through and pick it all out. Also, a helpful hint, I removed the oil pan from the start and with a paint brush and nail polish I marked the timing chain position at the crank. I figured there was a high probability of the chain skipping teeth due to having to remove the tensioner to pull the camshafts out. The crank gear is pretty far up there and the oil pump is in the way... If the timing chain did skip teeth it would have been a real PITA to get it back without doing this.

In all it took me 20 hours to do the job but I also adjusted the valve clearances, fixed a power steering leak and cleaned the throttle body. Including tools I spent $250 with OEM parts.

I appreciate everyones advice on doing this. Again, I wish I would have caught the last few posts but I can't do anything about it now. Glenn, thanks for your warnings on doing this job! I definitely proceeded with due diligance because of them. This is my first time tearing into an engine so hopefully everything stays together!

 

well i too am glad for you that it all went well. you learned a few things along the way, and hopefully you will not forget too much as time goes by.

giving warnings to doing a job the first time i feel is needed so as to inform the person of possible problems that can be avoided. it is always best to have someone close by, like standing next to you, while doing such a repair for the first time.

now, if you have a friend that needs to do this type of repair, it will be YOU that can stand beside him and help him. this will also increase your knowledge as well.

keep us up to date on the car and drive safely..!!!

 

I did a compression test today. My leftmost cylinder where I started had the lowest at around 150, and then it went up to about 160 and 165, and 164 for the other cylinders using the autozone loaner tool. How do you do the oil trick? Would that be useful for me for my first cylinder with the 150 reading or is it not that far apart to be enough? Also, when I took my spark plugs out (you take all them out, right?) the first or leftmost spark plug was the dirtiest whereas the spsark plugs the 2 on the right were the cleanest, but the 2 on the right were also on the tightest and i had to use a breaker bar to loosen the last one. What should the spark plugs be torqued too and should I use anti seize/ Nickel (silver color) or copper (coppery colored?) or don't use anti seize on ngk plugs? Thanks.

 

I just pour oil into the spark plug hole? is that safe? That won't foul my spark plug, will it?

 

After the compression test, I added some oil (just a small amount) in the first spark plug hole, and the compression jumped to 180. I then put everything in and my check engine light went on. Drove about 20 minutes to autozone and they checked my check engine light and said it was the ignition coil, which was 79.99 for one, and it may have been the first one. Then, I went to oreilly's across the street, told me the same thing. Afterwards, they shut my engine off and I turned it back on and the check engine light went off, so I guess I'm fine and the "ignition coil" issue was due to the extra oil in the spark plug hole, or did I actually mess up the ignition coil only the light isn't working, or something? Thanks. I just want to make sure that's fine, and if the ignition coil has an issue and I keep driving, what's the worst that could happen or can you drive with a bad ignition coil for quite some time? Thanks.

 

Treat yourself to a scan tool, can help you diagnose. Inexpensive ones use cell phone/comp or tablet to run program and provide read out.
You'll be able to check those error codes at any time without returning to Autozone.

A bad ignition coil should show up as check engine light/error code. If check engine light is flashing then damage can occur.

 

No check engine light has been on since after shutting the car off, after the FIRST START after the oil was put in, so I guess the ignition coil was fine, but it just lit up because of the oil but it burned it off on the first run of my car and never came on ever since.

 

Sounds right

 

had it tested again, and the parts stores still tell me it's ignition coil c and d.

 

Check engine light flashing again?
Can you post the actual error codes?