Maybe you did have too high of expectations. The new Yaris uses the same powerplant as the previous gen ECHO of course tweaked a little but essencially the same so don't expect it to deliver nose bleeding acceleration. But since its stiffer it should give a more "sporty" feel when going around corners. If you're still not satisfied maybe you don't want or need an entry level car but more so on the "sporty" side?? Good luck!:thumbup:

 

ECHOKnight2000

I was comparing to my daily driver mazda 323 which is pushing almost 15 years.
I was expecting the RS to be leaps and bounds over the tired 323.
The 323 has a 1.6L 82hp and weighs 2240lbs. Now that is pretty close to the RS.
So I expected the RS with 20+ hp to be a big improvement over my 323.
Which it felt slower on my butt dyno.

 

The old cars from the 80s and 90s didn't have all the fancy emission control to cut down on the pollutant. Also, I know a few people in those old 323 that don't even run with catalytic converter, while the ULEV system in the new cars will cut into the hp output. If you don't mind stinking up the road, keep the 323. Also, the 323's primitive 1.6L will feel peppy at the bottom end, but the newer engines (even when bogged down with the emission system) will out-pace it at higher speeds and return significantly better fuel economy while doing it. Back when I was driving my 98 Civic Hatch, I use to cream those 323 hatchback like they were standing still, So, I know that particular car doesn't have any guts in an all out race.

 

Pars

My 323 still has it's emission equipment on it (inculding cat) so I don't see any significant difference there.
The whole point of the post was that I was expecting a car with 20+ more hp and similar weight to be a little more peppy. I know the 323 is gutless. That is why I was expecting the RS to perform better. You know what they say about racing Hondas, just like the special olympics..even if you win you're still retarded.

 

Pars

My 323 still has it's emission equipment on it (inculding cat) so I don't see any significant difference there.
The whole point of the post was that I was expecting a car with 20+ more hp and similar weight to be a little more peppy. I know the 323 is gutless. That is why I was expecting the RS to perform better. You know what they say about racing Hondas, just like the special olympics..even if you win you're still retarded.

Nobody likes a sore looser. :disappoin

btw, HP is a function of speed, meaning it increases as the engine spins faster even though the actual power (torque) output of the engine isn't increasing. So, if you need to know the capability of the engine, the best gage is the torque output and if it remains flat over the rpm range. HP doesn't tell the whole story, but torque will. I bet your 323 has about the same amount of torque as the 04 Echo.

Another consideration is that the 323 torque probably only comes into play at the lower rpms and taper out at the higher rpm. So if you're driving the car at about 2/3 or less, both would feel the same, but once you go full out, the modern engine that usually has a flat torque curve and thus able to still produce more hp at higher rpms will pull ahead. But you need to rev the crap out the engine to tap into that extra power. That's why the old 323 will always loose to the likes of a Honda (and now Toyota) in a race situation, but feel as peppy or more-so in normal driving situation. And likewise at very highspeed on the highway, the fact that car can still produce power at high rpms will allow it to pull ahead of a bigger displacement car that doesn't have any high rpm capabilities.

 

Never lost so I can't be sore.
I don't race on the street. Nor would I use my daily driver for that.
I have another car for track events.
I know the relation ship between hp ant tq. I didn't start this thread to bench race the cars.
I was just stating that I expected more and was a bit disapointed in the car that got such good reviews. I'm not personally attacking Echo owners here. Just sharing my experience.
Since I was test driving the car by myself I did get the chance to floor the car. In every gear.
I even did some 90kph drops from 5th to 3rd to feel the car pull. All I can say is the car car felt lacking compared to my tired 323. I am going to test drive a Yaris sedan and hb today to see if maybe the RS I drove was a bad example.

 

One of the things that will fool the butt dyno is your seating position. The higher you sit, the slower you feel (say, your 323 vs an SUV). You sit darn near 6 inches higher in the echo. The torque curve is also perfectly flat, as a dyno proved to me (I could have sworn I have always felt something pick up at 3k RPM with VVT, but the dyno says almost nada). Perhaps have to get a copy of an old C&D and check the 0-60 times of each car to see what they really do, but 20hp difference isn't going to be much different. a few 10's in the 1/4 mile perhaps.

 

Komodo check autotrader.ca you can get a nice variety of used Toyota Yaris now :thumbup:

 

Been surfing the trader daily.
I went for a drive in a manual Yaris sedan today.
Still seems a like the car no low end grunt. Engine is a smooth as butter though, just like the RS I drove last week. The Yaris has a much more plush interior the the Echo.
I really like the hatchbacks for carrying large items. But I just thing the Yaris HB is horrible to look at. The Echo HB looks much better. The Yaris sedan on the other hand neither offends or pleases. I do like to the Corrola also. Which brings up another issue. If I but a slighly used car @ bank rate, with toyota's resale values so high I end up paying in the end as much as a new car @ the Toyota finance rate. I may just wait until the new Corolla debuts and try to get the current gen at a decent price.

 

Never lost so I can't be sore.
I don't race on the street. Nor would I use my daily driver for that.
I have another car for track events.
I know the relation ship between hp ant tq. I didn't start this thread to bench race the cars.
I was just stating that I expected more and was a bit disapointed in the car that got such good reviews. I'm not personally attacking Echo owners here. Just sharing my experience.
Since I was test driving the car by myself I did get the chance to floor the car. In every gear.
I even did some 90kph drops from 5th to 3rd to feel the car pull. All I can say is the car car felt lacking compared to my tired 323. I am going to test drive a Yaris sedan and hb today to see if maybe the RS I drove was a bad example.

I don't own and Echo and I'm not advocating street racing. There's not much drama taking a dinky 1.5L to 100km/hr as fast as possible. But it's cool to compare one econo car with another. Especially an old timer like the 323 vs a new one.

Well, good luck with your car hunt.

 

Driving a manual car with good initial torque makes for a much more pleasant take off when you're cruising. The 1.8L in the 2008 Corolla sounds like interesting engine, especially with the variable valve timing for both intake and exhaust. So, initial torque shouldn't be lacking. It'd be great if they could drop that engine into the light weight Yaris. It'd made it a great sleeper and also easier clutch action when you're stuck in traffic.

The shifting in my 07 Yaris is a bit more clunky then my old 98 Civic Hatch, but not as clunky as the new generation Civic. Perhaps it's all the extra synchronizers that's giving the slightly notchy feeling. Regardless, it's still good, so not a problem.

The single overhead cam engine in the Fit should have slightly better initial take-off power, so it should feel a little better when engaging the clutch. I've found that all these tinny double overhead cam engines tend to have problems with initial power (like below 1000rpm) but more then makes up for it once the car gets moving, which would explain why the Yaris is faster then the Fit. But the Fit is still getting all the rave reviews.

Waiting for the Corolla Wagon is probably going to be worth it. Especially if gas consumption and cargo hauling capacity is two the priorities.

 

I have an ECHO sedan and surprisingly it does have decent low end grunt and I have an automactic...of course I have to hit the sweet spot for it. Usually when I'm in heavy traffic but still moving maybe 20mph or so and I need to get into the other lane and maybe get ahead of another car I hit the gas my car "jumps" and I fly (no I'm not saying its a Porshe but for an econo car its surprising.) That's just my experience with it, obviously the light weight of the ECHO helps.:thumbup:

 

I've driven a 06 XRS Corolla and it was impressive. Bit over priced for my wallet. But nice car to drive. But the sedans don't have the cargo volume that the Hb do. The Matrix is just not my taste. It looks like a shrunken mini van and drives like it too. On a side note most of the new cars drive like mini vans. The Echo, Coroll and MAtrix all have this high in the air feel too them. Which I don't quite care for. But it seems the trens these days. So I guess it's unavoidable. Just like the growing emblem size. Why to manufacturers insist on making your car a tacky billboard.
Anyways back to the Echo HB. I'm still going to try to find another to drive to compare to the first I drove. I still like the car it just wasn't what I was expecting.

 

I've driven a 06 XRS Corolla and it was impressive. Bit over priced for my wallet. But nice car to drive. But the sedans don't have the cargo volume that the Hb do. The Matrix is just not my taste. It looks like a shrunken mini van and drives like it too. On a side note most of the new cars drive like mini vans. The Echo, Coroll and MAtrix all have this high in the air feel too them. Which I don't quite care for. But it seems the trens these days. So I guess it's unavoidable. Just like the growing emblem size. Why to manufacturers insist on making your car a tacky billboard.
Anyways back to the Echo HB. I'm still going to try to find another to drive to compare to the first I drove. I still like the car it just wasn't what I was expecting.

you seem like a very hard person to please what are the positives that you like about the Yaris/Echo I can understand you :heart: your current POS car :lol: but you have to let go and except the new styles and ride :thumbup:

 

I like the Echo HB for it's style and fuel economy. Decent interior also.
Overall a good package. Pretty much the same for the Yaris HB except I think the exterior styling is crap. The sedan looks a little better at leas not offensive. But with the sedan you loose the ability to carry large buly objects that you can haul with the HB's.
I don't :heart: my pos car it's the reason I'm looking for better. I just expected more from a car that is a decade+ newer with 20+ more hp. Maybe I came across wrong, I'm not putting the Echo down. I still think the overall package is a good value. I was just expecting a bit more pep from a similar weighted car with 20+ more hp. I was expecting a big difference and there wasn't. That's all.

 

I also have driven an automatic and a manual XRS. Apparently the Automatic XRS is a rarity. Unfortunately, I never got to toss the Matrix around, so I'm not sure about it's handling capability, but the car is crazy fast, especially if you're very fast with the shifter and can keep it in the power zone. One car I did get to toss around is the Celica GTS and it's probably the best sport compact car money can buy. Cars like the GTi, RSX-S, SiR might be able to get ahead on the straight away, but they'll never to able to be as quick on their feet as the Celica. well...there was one car quicker on it's feet then my friend's GTS (which sported TRD springs) and that was my old 98 Civic Hatch which had spring&shock upgrades and an array of strut bars.

It seems like the new Yaris has alot of the Celica's genes dialed into it, which came as pleasant surprised to me. I bought Yaris thinking it'd be a nice cruiser with decent fuel efficient and ok handling. But I didn't expect it to be good enough to match some the craziness that I used to put my old Civic through. The only thing is, in my old Civic while doing 180km/hr, the car will recover from anything you'd throw at it, I doubt the same can be said about the Yaris.

If you want a low slung hatchback with good handling and fuel economy at used car prices, then take a look at the 98-00 Civic Hatchback. It might be a punk car and attract too much police attention, but it's probably the best money can buy if you're looking into a used hatchback. If you're looking to get a new econo Hatchback, then 2007 is a good year for this type of car. If the Yaris doesn't do it for you, then there's the Fit, Versa and Accent. So, you might want to capitalize on the war between the ecco-hatchs and go new.

 

Dare I say I've always liked the civic HB. But the added cost of insureance on the civic because of it's popularity with the honduh crowd is a big negative.
I was looking at the Versa haven't driven one yet but it's not that small of a car it's close to the Matrix in size. The fit is just to close to the shrunken mini van style for me.
The new hyundai accent looks pretty good though. The upper model has discs all around too.
I despise changing drum brakes. Plus heated seats and mirrors. I will probably test drive one in the near future to get a feel. I've driven the older generations of accent and the engine was harsh and the shifter sucked. But the car handeled pretty well. The newest version looks to be leaps and bounds over what they had before. The interior doesn't look all that bad. The price is right.

 

Have you thought about the previous gen Civic Si? My co-worker has one and its pretty nice...I like hatches anyway, the only thing keeping me from the Si is that its a Civic-don't get me wrong from the economical and commuter standpoint its a good value but everyone has them and then you have the "ricer" stigma with the Civic.:thumbdown Of course I'm sure the Si's insurance is pretty steep. I read that the Accent is an improvement over the previous gens well at least it should be right? I'm sure its one of the best buys out there in terms of this class of cars but personally I wouldn't touch a Hyundai, maybe the Sonata that's a nice car IMO. Just look at the competition and shop around hopefully you'll find what you're looking for!:thumbup:

 

Dare I say I've always liked the civic HB. But the added cost of insureance on the civic because of it's popularity with the honduh crowd is a big negative.
I was looking at the Versa haven't driven one yet but it's not that small of a car it's close to the Matrix in size. The fit is just to close to the shrunken mini van style for me.
The new hyundai accent looks pretty good though. The upper model has discs all around too.
I despise changing drum brakes. Plus heated seats and mirrors. I will probably test drive one in the near future to get a feel. I've driven the older generations of accent and the engine was harsh and the shifter sucked. But the car handeled pretty well. The newest version looks to be leaps and bounds over what they had before. The interior doesn't look all that bad. The price is right.

unfortunately I can not give you any articles right now :thumbdown but trust me I have heard many times that the Nissan Versa is not living up to expectaions :thumbdown I.E. power and ride ability

 

^^^As well as the gas mileage...its one of the worst from what I read on the forums. Some people are even lucky to get 30mpg let alone above that and if its suppose to be in the same class as the Yaris/Fit then that is below standard.:thumbdown

 

The Versa is a much larger car than a Yaris/Echo. That is probably why the car is worse on gas. Throw in the old 1.8 from the Sentra of old and you've got a larger car with an older tech engine. The econo box segment is pretty competitve segment right now. This is good because consumers will benefit as the car companys try to out due eachother for our business.

 

The Versa is a much larger car than a Yaris/Echo. That is probably why the car is worse on gas. Throw in the old 1.8 from the Sentra of old and you've got a larger car with an older tech engine. The econo box segment is pretty competitve segment right now. This is good because consumers will benefit as the car companys try to out due eachother for our business.

The Versa seems to be popular with GTA crowd. There seems to be more Versa's on the road then Fit, which is interesting since the Versa was just released. Given the Versa's popularity and the Fit's rave reviews, I don't see how the Yaris sales can hold-up to the onslaught. It seems that in this fight, the winner is going to be the manufacture that can get by with the smallest profit margin and the consumer. They're all great cars, so it might be a good time to retire the clunker.

 

I think the reason the Versa is selling well is because it's bigger than the competitors in it's price range. As for the fit I think Honda missed the mark with the styling there. I don't think it appeals to the masses. No matter how many good reviews it gets.

 

I think the reason the Versa is selling well is because it's bigger than the competitors in it's price range. As for the fit I think Honda missed the mark with the styling there. I don't think it appeals to the masses. No matter how many good reviews it gets.

Yeah that's probably because Honda brought over a 5-year old design (FIT). I heard that they are bringing the new one in 09 so hopefully the new one will redeem itself as far as design.:thumbup:

I don't know about Canada but the Versa may start with competative pricing but reading various forums it seems like it can easily get up to 17K U.S. dollars. Obviously it depends on what you get as far as trim options. I know the Yaris sedan can get up there but it seems the Versa gets into the upper teens more often. I'm talking about U.S. prices I'm not sure on Canada. :thumbup:

 

Yeah thne Versa starts off low and then Nissan nickel and dimes you to death on the options.