So you are skidding? All wheels lock up like back in the day before ABS?
If so, then the brakes themselves would not be to blame but something in the ECU or ABS system sounds amiss.
If you are saying you push on the brakes and then release, only to have them to continue to brake for an additional 5 seconds, that's something different.
Either way, I would get it to a reputable repair shop ASAP and replicate it for them.

 

So you are skidding? All wheels lock up like back in the day before ABS?
If so, then the brakes themselves would not be to blame but something in the ECU or ABS system sounds amiss.
I would get it to a reputable repair shop ASAP and replicate it for them.

Yes, they lock up like before ABS. I have taken the car to Toyota in Tulsa and they say it just needs a brake job. It clearly needs more than that. Not sure if I would want to replicate this with someone in the car ... it takes lots of skill to keep it from rolling at high speeds when it locks the brakes.

 

If the brakes are not pulsing but locking then something is amiss in the ABS circuit, at least it seems so to me.

 

Could bad calipers do it? If it is the calipers replace both sides, don't just replace 1.

 

The tires shouldn't lock up and if they did you should have the ABS warning light on. If you hit the brakes hard you will here the sound of skidding because the tires will lock up for a second but they should do it in a rapid succession. This sound doesn't mean the tires are locked up. You should also hear the humming sound of the ABS pump working and feel the pulsation in the brake pedal.

Also when you quickly and forcefully hit the brake pedal, like in an emergency, the computer detects this and activates the brake assist system. The computer will apply full braking power even if you haven't pushed the brake pedal down to the end of it's travel. If the brake assist system was activated it means your ABS is working normally because the computer uses the ABS pump module to engage the brakes.

 

Where would I start to fix this?

IMHO, get it to the Pro's. You state yourself that you don't want to hurt yourself or others so get it to a reputable dealer or shop and let them do what they do. They've more got more experience with diagnosing issues with all of the systems.

Plenty of life left in the pads is not the only factor to effect brake performance. ABS, Electronic Brake-Force Distribution, Brake Assist, sensors, pads, rotors, calipers and Pre-Collision all play a role in proper braking performance. There are other things not even mentioned that can also contribute to your issue. Having knowledge of how all of these systems work can be crucial in diagnosing something beyond a simple case of pad performance.

In the mean-time, be a little more aware of where your fellow drivers are and do your best to anticipate what will happen if one of them makes a bone-head move in front of you. This is especially important when traveling at high speed.

 

Why do you continue to drive the vehicle?

This has happened three times now and no one can tell me what is wrong.

Life insurance payout?

I am told to get a brake job even though the pads still have plenty of life.

Brakes require maintenance too. Maintenance goes beyond replacing pads when required. The brake system should be inspected and the caliper slide pins and disc pad brackets should be periodically lubed, in addition to other things being looked at.


Get some gopro cameras to record spedometer, left side wheels, right side wheels, and drive hard in an BIG EMPTY parking lot or empty industrial area street to accelerate hard and brake hard. Maybe you can safely duplicate the problem this way and have video to show a non-Toyota service location. Many dealers and independent service people can no longer trouble shoot problems w/o code(s) being present.

 

Why do you continue to drive the vehicle?

Life insurance payout?



Brakes require maintenance too. Maintenance goes beyond replacing pads when required. The brake system should be inspected and the caliper slide pins and disc pad brackets should be periodically lubed, in addition to other things being looked at.


Get some gopro cameras to record spedometer, left side wheels, right side wheels, and drive hard in an BIG EMPTY parking lot or empty industrial area street to accelerate hard and brake hard. Maybe you can safely duplicate the problem this way and have video to show a non-Toyota service location. Many dealers and independent service people can no longer trouble shoot problems w/o code(s) being present.

The car is parked until the issue is resolved. Thank you very much for the information. I do not want to put the car back on the road in its present condition. The reason for the post is the Toyota dealership in Tulsa did not take me seriously and told me I just needed new pads and new fluid. Their response and lack of care is what could get someone killed.

 

+1 camera to convince the doubtful!

On vehicles with ABS your wheels shouldn't lock up and squeal like a stuck pig going down the highway.

As already mentioned, take it to a shop, and find a competent one. Find out if the problem is with the simple hydraulics or with the ABS and vehicle stability control system. An Asian import or Toyota-specific shop should be able to use TechStream to find possible hidden codes.

I'd also file a report here:

Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA

File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.

www.nhtsa.gov

 

Toyota dealer and most repair shops will be skeptical since no codes (ie ABS warning light remaining on).
No codes = no problem.
Obviously this is not you; if the dangerous braking condition only happened ONCE, a scary and dangerous fluke. BUT it happened two additional times.

You should write Corporate Toyota and share your experience with them. They likely won't do much.

You can write NHTSA. They won't be able to help you, but at least it will be documented.

Your only recourse is:
1) Purchase new or used vehicle. The upside, used car prices are high. The downside, this car is probably paid off.
2) Find a competent independent shop to take a look. They will have a hard time or won't be able to diagnose.
3) Get 3 GoPro video cameras to hopefully capture the problem on a empty/deserted street in an industrial business park area. Seeing is believing, b/c w/o codes, everyone will say there is NO problem.

 

Could it be something related to the mm radar collision avoidance system? Normally this system will give a loud warning squeal before it slams on the brakes and during the warning if you brake it will not further engage. I have a 2018 Avalon that has responded with the loud squeal from similar other bone-head driver's actions but have always braked in time before it automatically slams on the brakes. Hate to think just what it might do if I didn't respond in time. Did you get any loud beep warning before the panic braking?

 

As previously written - Many dealers and independent service people can no longer trouble shoot problems w/o code(s) being present. SO soooo true -

You have a pretty significant issue here. It will be up to you to figure this one out. NO shop I ever used would consider test driving to THAT speed.

NHSTA is an absolute must do.

An in car dash cam ( I use a Vantrue model with great results ) protects you in manifold ways - and would provide you with a visual/audible record that would be valuable figuring this out.

Good luck - AND PLEASE - post a disposition to this group when you know how this resolves !

 

As previously written - Many dealers and independent service people can no longer trouble shoot problems w/o code(s) being present. SO soooo true -

You have a pretty significant issue here. It will be up to you to figure this one out. NO shop I ever used would consider test driving to THAT speed.

NHSTA is an absolute must do.

An in car dash cam ( I use a Vantrue model with great results ) protects you in manifold ways - and would provide you with a visual/audible record that would be valuable figuring this out.

Good luck - AND PLEASE - post a disposition to this group when you know how this resolves !

Thank you. I've reported this to the NHTSA and Toyota Corporate. I've heard back from NHTSA but I have heard nothing from Toyota.

 

The battery change making a difference for you is interesting. Having the behavior change after switching the battery indicates to me that one of the controllers affecting braking response may be sensitive to poor energy supply. Isolating which one did it is beyond my knowledge. Did the removed battery check out?

BTW, That sure looks like a "canned" response from Toyota that was approved by their lawyers to minimize liability.

 

he car was purchase 5 years ago as certified pre-owned and had the original battery (from five years ago). A few months ago when I got new front tires, they checked the battery and told me it was time to get it changed out. (they told me this after I paid, so they were not trying to make another sale). The battery went back for it's $15 core deposit, so I am unsure of the absolute condition. There was a good amount of corrosion on the positive. Thank you very much for the information about checking the controllers. This looks like the next step to investigate.

 

The car was purchase 5 years ago as certified pre-owned and had the original battery (from five years ago). A few months ago when I got new front tires, they checked the battery and told me it was time to get it changed out. (they told me this after I paid, so they were not trying to make another sale). The battery went back for it's $15 core deposit, so I am unsure of the absolute condition. There was a good amount of corrosion on the positive. Thank you very much for the information about checking the controllers. This looks like the next step to investigate.