No, it's not normal but don't you have warranty?
TAH owner? Isn't it Toyota Avalon Hybrid?

 

Yes.

 

12,500 miles in 4 years? My suspicion is the hybrid system just isn't happy with so little activity, but I'm just guessing!

 

i certainly hope that isn't the problem. There is a second problem that has started at the same time, interstate MPG has dropped from 39-40 down to 30-31 and in town MPG from 34-36 down to 28-29. Taking it into the dealer Tuesday and will report back. Wife says we aren't trading for a 2018. LOL

 

UPDATE: Car was at dealer from 10 until 5. They ran fuel trim test, health check for ICE and hybrid system and showed me the computer print outs for all the tests. No fault codes anywhere. The battery was in perfect shape as were all other systems. A master tech with hybrid training supposedly worked on it. I was able to talk to him before the work. They said that the battery charge bars are not necessarily a true indication of the battery charge. They said the fuel injector cleaning, throttle body cleaning service might help the mileage but the car didn't have enough miles on it for that to be needed. It's $189. Usually done at 30,000 miles. Said to monitor the MPG and come back if I wanted to try the cleaning. The car had a clean bill of health so really nothing to fix. All work was done under warranty at no cost to me. Will drive it and see what happens. I added a bottle of Techron to the gas which is probably not needed. I was really glad the hybrid system was okay.

 

They found nothing? That has to be a big disappointment for you.
MPG: maybe you pumped a bad tank of fuel?

Are these engines direct injection, and prone to manifold carbon build-up? Are you driving only short trips?

 

No, they aren't DI.

 

The only thing that comes to mind here is...sadly...dealer incompetence. Yes, these cars are hyper-engineered marvels, but once "in the field", as this engine has been for several years, problems should be solvable, with the right tech/equipment.

I say find another dealer. Have you contacted Toyota customer service, or whatever it's called? (I'm too new to Toyota to have needed this...)

I'm still wondering about 12.5k miles in 4 years. It might just be the fuel system is gunked up (we used to call it "varnish" that was left behind on carbs?), fuel injectors compromised from lack of use, and most importantly, sitting idle, with fuel evaporating and leaving behind residue. I know the systems are sealed to the atmosphere, but what DOES happen to gasoline in injectors that sit idle for extended periods?

How about cutting a deal with your current service folk: YOU pay the $189 for the fuel system cleanup, and if it doesn't change anything, THEY refund your money, and agree to track down the real problem.

 

It is NOT normal. We have TCH owners reporting car stowed for several weeks and NO drop on battery charge bars. Personally, I had my hybrids alternated daily for commute, and sometimes not driven for couple days, and NO drop in bars.
So whatever tech told you is not aligned with reality. If it drops down that fast in couple hours, you do have drain somewhere or battery does not hold charge, which is sort of weird as it is bunch of battery cells. It almost looks like you have, as example, AC comp running. As it's electric.

 

Thanks for everyone's suggestions. The car is driven once or twice a week for short distances. I only use Shell gasoline. Is it possible that, all at once, the computer has started calculating the MPG wrong?

 

No. You simply shouldn't have bought hybrid. You have no benefit with short trips and infrequent to add to it. As the result, you keep traction battery starved. Anyhow, it should not be dropping down bars, like I said.
It takes about what - 5 - 10 minutes(cold weather) to warm up hybrid system. That's when ICE runs. SO folks that do short trips should not be buying hybrids.
Go electric. If you can, of course.
And mpg at such short trips sucks also. Don't blame it on the car, it was ill choice.

 

My Fusion Hybrid never had this problem. My complaint is not about long or short trip mileage,but about why the sudden change.

 

Another 50 mile trip today. Started car after it had been parked for 72 hours and it had 5 charge bars. Average MPG for the trip was 39.9 with Interstate and local 4 lane road driving. Charge bars at 6. Stopped at gas station, bars back to 2 on restart. Drove about 300 yards back to the Interstate and had 6 bars again and they stayed there for the next 20 miles. Techron must have helped the MPG.

 

Sounds like your battery indicator and MPG calc systems have problems.
I wouldn't worry about the battery bar indicator but you can double check the MPG by logging and doing a manual calculation. When you fill your tank up log the odometer reading and the gallons needed to fill up. After your next fill up do the same and you can calculate the actual MPG. I do this with both our vehicles from the date of purchase so I can keep track of the MPG on the long term. If it is like mine the MPG the instruments give is a little more optimistic than what you will calculate.
But if the battery has been tested without problems I wouldn't worry about it. After all, you do have minimum 8 year 100,000 mile warranty on the battery and maybe the other hybrid components - check your owners manual to see what is covered.

 

Next time, I would try leaving the car ON in Park for several minutes after a long drive to simulate your gas fill up. Leaving the car on will allow you to monitor the charge level meter in real-time (make sure engine doesn't start to charge the battery). If the battery is having problems, it should fall just as quick (probably quicker). If it doesn't fall much, turn off the car and wait a few minutes. If battery is multiple bars lower on restart, then it is likely something to do with charge calculation during car initialization. If charge is NOT multiple bars lower, then the test results will not be really helpful since you were unable to repeat the problem.

Another note about the test the dealer performed. ( I apologize in advance for this LOOONG post, but I find battery technology to be very fascinating.)
If they tested the hybrid battery while the car is parked, it is not a good test of the condition (I made this mistake when I first checked my own battery health in my Camry Hybrid). Under minimal load, a weak cell may report minimal voltage difference from other cells, which is used to determine "health". Once load is applied (driving in EV mode), the weak cell would drop faster than the others, causing the battery meter to fall very quickly (weakest link). Toyota programmed a certain amount of allowed deviation to account for wear and tear over many years, so a code will not appear until the problem is pretty bad. This (one or more cells dropping much faster than others) happening under load is something I've seen reported by some Prius drivers leading up to a battery failure. In my 2007 Camry with 113,000 miles, I tested the battery last month before selling to my brother in law. Voltage difference at rest between lowest voltage cell and highest was only 0.2v. Under load, it only went to 0.8v max difference for a moment. This battery is considered healthy because all cells are similar in strength (though capacity is probably reduced from new). All cells will degrade over time with use; You just want them to degrade at the same rate. A healthy battery pack that is HEAVILY used will usually have much more usable capacity than a new pack that has 1 or more weak cells.

Another possibility: Maybe the system is having trouble balancing the cells fully due to long periods of minimal use. I'm not familiar with how the system handles balancing cells, but if this is the reason for battery fluctuation, I think the dealership might have access to a machine that can rebalance the cells. Again, I am not sure of this but it is worth mentioning.

 

Did your test. 4 bars when starting after being parked 3 days. Five bars after 5 mile trip. Stayed on 5 bars in Park. Turned it off and came back 30 minutes later, turned it on and got 2 bars, started the engine and it went back to 5 bars. I'm going to quit worrying about it.

 

I rebuild Toyota hybrid batteries for a living, this isn't normal behavior on a healthy battery. The behavior is caused by the battery sitting for long periods of times without use. Before NIMH batteries are placed into operation after long periods (2 months+) of storage they must be discharged down to 1v per cell and recharged, rinse repeat 3x, this restores capacity in the usable battery range of 1.25 to 1.45 volts per cell. The car determines the charge level based on voltage of the battery pack, a battery pack that hasn't been cycled when put into operation works at higher voltage levels, as high as 20 volts per block and suffers from a very high rate of self discharge. When the vehicle is turned off and the battery is allowed to sit the voltage level drops dramatically causing the battery meter to read 2 bars. This will appear as a balanced and functional battery when viewing the live data on a dealer scan tool, but will have only 25% to 33% of the capacity of a good battery pack.

Toyota does not offer this service, only a handful of battery rebuilders have the equipment to do this. Hybrid Automotive sells a DIY solution for around $600.