hmmm.. I have an 89 Corolla GTS with a 4AGE motor.. now this is a 16yr old car and its got 340km on it.. well, my car used to do the same thing when it idled, it revved up and down. This started after I let Mr Lube do a throttle body cleaning, and I finally figured out how to get rid of it later on. All I had to do was find the idle adjusting screw and turn it up first to make the car rev steady at about 2000rpm.. then I gave it a few seconds and turned the screw down to lower the revs until they were at a steady 900-1000rpm, which is practically normal for a 4AGE. Before doing this.. my motor would go from 1500rpm and jolt to like 2000rpm then back down to 1500rpm. Of course this only happened when it was cold out and it didn't when it was hot.. it went away after the adjustment and never came back.

Try this with your car, hopefully it will work.

 

finally figured out how to get rid of it later on. All I had to do was find the idle adjusting screw and turn it up first to make the car rev steady at about 2000rpm.Try this with your car, hopefully it will work.

Unfortunately my car doesn't have an adjusting screw to better control the idle bypass air supply.

It is the computer that controls the Idle Air Control valve directly.

I think the computer is just ordering too much gas to be injected for some mysterious reason. Then it gets all upset because it sees the rpms climb higher than it predicted.

Thanks anyway for the suggestion.

 

NP hope you get your problem fixed.. sounds like the ECU is malfunctioning or miscalculating anyways.

 

NP hope you get your problem fixed.. sounds like the ECU is malfunctioning or miscalculating anyways.

That's what I think.

The problem is that the calculations are already optimized so that the millions of Toyotas in North America pass the pollution tests.

Toyota is not going to alter this program so that a few hundred owners like myself with marginal engine components can be saved. The risk of unforeseen sideeffects from a program change is too great. I certainly wouldn't touch the program if I was them.

 

Ok I have to ask a few questions first. The sound I hear sounds like the cycling of increasing and decreasing engine RPM. Is that the issue you're reporting?

Now I didn't see any info on what year and version of Matrix you have? What's the mileage? Have you made any modifications to engine, exhaust, drivetrain? Have you kept up with mainteance? This info might be important - I've seen wonky automatic transmission issues cause because someone when 25k on a single oil change. (wtg Mazda!). Now there are enough differences in parts between Corolla and Matrix to make them distinct cars so it's tough to know where to start.

Have you contacted Toyota Canada at 1-888-TOYOTA-8 and spoken to someone in their Customer Relations department? Do this yourself - don't let a dealer do this.

With the exception of the dealer...has your car been inspected by someone from Toyota Canada head office (ie: has someone from Toronto come out to see the car...or was it shipped to Toronto for inspection?).

Are there any engine codes generated?

 

I hear some bubbling sound in the audio file. I think that is what you are trying to point out. My 1ZZ (same as your Matrix engine) Corolla S did not have any bubbling sounds like that. It does not seem normal. You will have to get it checked out by a mechanic at your Toyota dealership.

 

I don't hear anything unusual - except for the non-OEM exhaust.

 

The bubbling sound is something I never heard before??

 

Ok I have to ask a few questions

1) The sound I hear sounds like the cycling of increasing and decreasing engine RPM. Is that the issue you're reporting?
2) what year and version of Matrix you have?
3) What's the mileage?
4) Have you made any modifications to engine, exhaust, drivetrain?
5) Have you kept up with mainteance?
6) Have you contacted Toyota Canada at 1-888-TOYOTA-8 and spoken to someone in their Customer Relations department?
7) With the exception of the dealer...has your car been inspected by someone from Toyota Canada head office ?
8) Are there any engine codes generated?

Answers:

1) Yes, those are the engine rpms that you hear when the car is idling, and only during the second minute, following a cold start with no one touching the gas pedal.
2) This is a 2003 base model Matrix with option package B (A/C).
3) The current mileage is 51 k kilometers ( 32 K miles) but the problem started the first week I brought the car home new in February 2002.
4) No modifications.
5) All scheduled maintenance done by the dealer.
6) I sent at least 4 e-mails to Toyota Canada (often to a contact person as opposed to the general mail box). Their responses thanked me for my submissions and said that my messages were being forwarded to the department concerned. One response said that there had not been other complaints similar to mine.
7) No Toyota person other than my Toyota dealer has looked at the car.
8) No engine codes were noted in all of the three scans taken.

As I have said many time since I discovered that I can make the problem temporarily go away by resetting my ECU computer memory, this is a software bug which only surfaces on a handful of vehicles that have many engine components on the borderline of being out of spec. The computer considers it a higher priority to minimize pollution than to provide a cosmetically smooth idle when cold.

Additionally. my car was inspected last month by an independant garage owned by a famous ex-rally car driver and popular local print and radio journalist. All his head mechanic could say was that the front O2 sensor is not operating during the second minute following a cold start. My O2 sensor had been changed during the first failed attempt (last February) by my dealer to fix the problem. Toyota head office refused to answer the following 3 questions:

"If you felt it necessary to change the O2 sensor because you felt that it might be causing the problem, wouldn't you appreciate knowing that the replacement sensor does not perform any better?" and
"Perhaps the O2 sensor plays no role during the second minute and you needlessly changed my sensor?", and
"At what point does the computer start monitoring the O2 sensor?"

Thanks for your detailed interest. I am more concerned in having your legal opinion about this unfixable cosmetic defect.

 

My 1ZZ (same as your Matrix engine) Corolla S did not have any bubbling sounds like that. It does not seem normal.

You will have to get it checked out by a mechanic at your Toyota dealership.

This was done twice and the technical support people at Toyota head office have written that my engine is "not abnormal". All this happening within the 3 year warranty period for a problem that started the first week after I bought the car.

My dealership service manager suggested that I should be able to live with this cosmetic problem.

The overwhelming response in this and three other similar threads is claiming that most people would not buy a second hand Toyota which makes this sound even with the assurance that the noise is not the sign of anything wrong with the motor.

The purposes of this poll is to measure the degree of public opinion in preparation for a Class Action Law Suit.

Thanks for your answer.

 

I don't hear anything unusual - except for the non-OEM exhaust.

What is unusual is that fewer than one car in a thousand (by my estimation) will make this sound when cold with no one touching the gas pedal. And the exhaust is what came from the Toyota assembly line in Cambridge Ontario. The whole car including the exhaust is OEM.

 

my car has a REALLY crappy idle at start.. and it goes away when my cpu is reset too.. I have an 01 btw.. but the thing is it idles too low

 

my car has a REALLY crappy idle at start.. and it goes away when my cpu is reset too.. I have an 01 btw.. but the thing is it idles too low

OK, If I understand you, you are saying that after you reset the cpu, the car will cold idle at a reasonable steady rpm (say between 1400 and 2000) but after a few days, the cold idle becomes lower and the smoothness disappears because the idle is too low?



If true, we may be suffering in the same way.



In my case, my cpu learns to increase cold idle speed unreasonably when faced with a set of marginal engine components that suggest that the injection volume should be increased.



In you case, I suspect, your cpu learns to decrease the cold idle speed unreasonably when faced with a set of marginal engine components that suggest that the injection volume should be decreased.

I say marginal in these cases because there is a remote chance that all the sensors in a car can be within spec, but they are all biased in the same direction and these biases don't cancel out as in the majority of cars.



As I believe in the inevitability that one in ten thousand cars could sound like mine, thanks to you, I now believe that one in ten thousand cars would sound like yours.



What we have in common is a computer that trusts too much what some engine sensors might be falsely reporting and when faced with a dilemma, the cpu must make choices that reduce pollution as a priority over a smooth idle which can be seen as a cosmetic issue.



My cpu deals with over-revving by momentarily shutting down the fuel.



Does your cpu deal with an under-revving problem by momentarily increasing the rpms? If so, are there pulses that you hear? How many pulses over how many seconds and how soon after a cold start?

How soon after your purchase did this problem begin? First winter?

What was your experience getting the dealer to improve the situation if it was under warranty?

Do you believe that you will experience difficulty in reselling your car because of the way it sounds?

 

Have they replaced the ECU?

In any event, let me be clear on this. Forget email. Would you let the plumber diagnose your flooded basement by email? Probably not! :lol: So when it comes to your car and the dealer throws up his/her hands, leave the marvels of technology behind and speak to a live human "bean" and call...

1-888-TOYOTA-8

Tell them your problem.
Tell them what's been done to the vehicle.
Ask them what they're system says has been done. (FYI any work you've had done to the car should be in their system).
Tell them how you temporarily resolve it.
Offer to give them that wave file.
Above all...Be polite.

Keep in mind that the person you speak with is just a first line representative and will just take your info and likely escalate it to their Customer Relations issues team...expect a call within a few days with further questions and help. Be patient...they will call. Trust me.

But this is an oddity.

As for the chap with the previous gen 2001 Corolla having odd idle...has that always been like that since day one...or just with wear? What's the mileage? Too many problems. Heck my 95 Civic did that when I hit over 100K - swaped out the plugs and voila - fixed.

 

Have they replaced the ECU?

So when it comes to your car and the dealer throws up his/her hands, leave the marvels of technology behind and speak to a live human "bean" and call...

1-888-TOYOTA-8

No, they haven't replaced the ECU and they aren't likely to,

It is not my dealership service manager who has thrown up his hands. He said he would be more than happy to take my money to finance the replacement of every sensor in my engine until the problem goes away.

It is Toyota head office speaking through my service manager who has said that they will not pay more than the $500 that they have already spent under my warranty.

Why, because head office (TAS) has looked at the scan readout from my ECU and concluded that there is no obvious single sensor malfunctioning. Since the vehicle is drivable (it most certainly is) and since it does not pollute, they (head office) feel my case is no longer worthy of having money spent on it.

I can accept all that.

What I can't accept is my service manager's belief that I will not suffer from a loss when reselling the car because , and I quote "many people have bought second hand Chrysler minivans knowing that their transmissions are fragile and in the case of your Toyota, there is nothing broken".

He may be right, but from the responses posted in this and three other threads auditioning my sound recording, the vast majority state that they would not buy my car.

That is why I need your answers (in support or not) to my 2 poll questions much more now than another round of knocking at Toyota's backdoor.

Please, let's turn the page on trying to find a technical solution. I need a legal one now.

Thanks

 

montreal...dude! When you bought your car, did you really think that the sales person was going back to the Sales Manager to confirm that he can give you the car at price "X"? I hope not...because they were probably talking about the weather, or checking out LaPresse, or some BS like that. Don't take this dealers advice as gospel.

Screw the dealer - find a new one. There's easily 10 or more in Montreal. They sound like total dicks anyways...there is no such limit of $500 of warranty repairs. Frig...which dealer is this anyways? That pisses me off. The service manager is quoting you some lame party line on anything that is questionably a warranty repair. So stop dealing with that lame ass dealer and go directly to the source!

Call Toyota directly!!

Until you can demonstrate that you have dealt directly with Toyota (via their Customer Relations Department in some fashion, CAMVAP will do nothing for you...and the courts will kick it back to you to allow Toyota to resolve it. You will spend lots of $$ and time and agravation getting no where.

When my dealer screwed me around, I called Toyota. I now have a new dealer...and a car that works. Case closed.

So...Call Toyota. I cannot stress this enough. Call Toyota...I will keep saying that until you do that and let them resolve it.

Call Toyota. Just call.

 

So...Call Toyota. I cannot stress this enough.
Call Toyota...I will keep saying that until you do that and let them resolve it.
Call Toyota.
Call. Just call. I mean it! Call :lol::deadhorse

I'll call 1-888-TOYOTA-8

I'll tell them rolla-XRS sent me.

Thanks

 

Montreal, do you not watch the Simpsons? Surely it's translated into x million languages including Canada's 2 official ones. Now that's one of the failings here...I have no idea about your age/gender/etc so having read your post I can understand that perhaps you are not a Simpson's fan.

I'm sorry if you were offended. It was not my intention to offend you, but rather to CHEER you on that you finally decided to choose the course of action which will give you the best result...even after you ignored my first piece of advice. Perhaps you missed the first piece...which is why I continued to give you that same advice and be verbose about it....so it could not be missed. Now if I had lost my cool, you would know it. But I neither have the time or patience to waste in flaming anyone. Besides, we're all family here anyways so why would I flame someone? If you stick around long enough...you'll realize that.

Now - complaining to TN management doesn't solve problems here. It just escalates them and ticks people off. They don't want to moderate this place anymore than you or I would. You could have brought your issue to me via a PM first. Had I known you were offended, I would have simply removed/edited the post - no questions asked.

I hope Toyota Canada resolves your issue. I really do. There is no ramification for you to call Toyota - legal or otherwise. And if you consult with a lawyer, they will (hopefully) tell you the same if they are honest. In any event, I hope you stick around here because this place is THE place for Toyota enthusiasts - bar none!! :thumbup:

Because of your concerns I have removed/edited the above post(s). I trust you will do the same to yours and we can get back to respect and decorum.

Cheerio!!

Now where did I put my beer...<sigh>

 

Montreal, do you not watch the Simpsons?
I hope Toyota Canada resolves your issue.

I don't watch the Simpsons but I did learn a few of Homer's famous quotes yesterday.

I do appreciate you clearing up the air because it confirms to me your good intentions and it renews my confidence in your idea, because new ideas that may work are what I really need now.

You are a great asset to this internet forum and I hope many members will continue to profit from your advice.

Of course you never know if the person you are posting to is the great grand mother of your best friend, or a student. So interpretations and reactions are bound to vary. I'll try to be more conscious of this reality in the future.

I have deleted the ambiguous post in question.

Best wishes.

 

Thanks!! :grouphug:

 

bump,

Annyone want to vote in my poll.

Thanks

 

1) how objectionable would you find this sound were your car to make it at the same frequency and for the same time duration as mine

VERY objectionable !!! Somethin' ain't right !!!

2) if you were offered for sale a second-hand Corrola that made this sound, would you offer less money to purchase it, and if so, how much less money, bearing in mind that this issue is strictly cosmetic?

Yes, MUCH less $$$.....sorry, that's more than a "cosmetic" issue....a scratch or small ding is "cosmetic"....cosmetic, it ain't !!! Sorry....:sosad:

 

VERY objectionable !!! Somethin' ain't right !!!

I agree,

It sounds to me like there's a vacuum or fuel injector leak that is not bad enough for the ECU to throw a code but still bad enough to create an idle rpm that upsets the ECU.

Thanks for yor vote.

 

Sorry to hear that the dealers can't find the problem! I had the same exact problem in a totally different car, and it was a faulty IAC... but that was a Camaro :lol:

 

Sorry to hear that the dealers can't find the problem! I had the same exact problem in a totally different car, and it was a faulty IAC... but that was a Camaro :lol:

Just like a vacuum leak, a faulty IAC has the effect of introducing more air into the cylinders than the ECU would prefer. In order to make sure that the burn is not too lean as a result of the extra air, the ECU has to squirt in more gas. Having that extra air and extra gas burning makes the engine turn over faster. When it becomes too fast, then the ECU has no choice but to pull the plug and cut gas and ignition until things slow down. And then start all over again.

Thanks for you response and I hope you voted.