doesn't sound like a fuel pressure issue, could be a flaky engine coolant temp sensor (2 wire) or a failing ignition coil or ignition module. You need to know if you have spark and injector pulse when it won't start.

 

Thank you. I'll check that out.

 

Fuel pump is computer-controlled and does not run unless the engine is spinning; either cranking to start or actually running. This is a safety feature. Don't want to be trapped upside down in a wreck with ruptured fuel lines and having the pump spray fuel all over your hot exhaust pipe.

Don't replace parts until you've tested them and confirm is bad. You've already spent money needlessly on plug wires, plugs, cap and rotor; additional parts gets progressively more expensive. If you suspect FPR, then attach gauge to fuel-rail and measure the actual fuel-pressure. Also be sure to measure vacuum at the FPR hose as well since the FPR varies pressure based upon vacuum.

Most likely you have a cold-start enrichment issue. The ECU may not be sensing cold conditions properly. Measure resistance of both IAT and ECT sensors at rooms temperature and freezing. Also measure the resistance of ignition coil's primary and secondary windings.

Also review these threads:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...a-7th-generation-1993-1997/1239322-list-confirmed-distributor-fault-issues.html
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...-7th-generation-1993-1997/1450418-95-occasional-misfires-when-accelerating.html

 

So I sprayed starting fluid into the intake this morning and the car started right up on the first try. I waited an hour and tried it again with the same results. So I guess its a fuel problem. I also noticed that two of the injectors have an oily residue around them.

 

Starting fluid probably ignites easier than gas, so if you have a weak spark it would make it easier to start. Your test doesn't prove it's definitely a fuel problem.

 

Testing requires arriving at NUMBERS; the value of which will determine if a part is good or bad. You want to test the entire fuel-system:

- fuel-pump
- fuel-pump wiring
- fuel-lines
- fuel-filter
- fuel-hose to rail
- fuel-rail
- fuel-injectors
- fuel-pressure regulator
- fuel-return hose & lines
- injector connectors & wiring
- ECU
- engine-speed & position sensors

Any single one or more of these parts can cause a fuel-problem. Unless you measure each one to rule it out as a problem, you need to replace every single one of them with brand-new OEM parts to know for sure the bad part has been replaced in the fuel-system. There is however, a single test you can do to verify all of these parts are functional...

Note that the starting-fluid test only points out a cold-start fuel-enrichment problem, that is, the additional fuel needed on cold-starts. That's not part of the regular fuel-system listed above.

 

I wonder if this could be a cps issue. I replaced mine about 30 to 40 thousand miles ago when it went bad and the car started acting like the transmission had gone out. It fixed the bucking/jerking issue but it did not fix the hard start issue which I though it would. I used a standard motor product as I didn't realize it was such a bad idea to use aftermarket parts on these cars at that time.

 

Sure, test it as well. There are impedance-specs for it.

However, a bad CPS would cause difficult running all the time. It wouldn't be bad just when the engine's off. Similarly, fuel problems would present themselves all the time as well.

You've isolated this to a cold-start issue. Let's look at components that affect:

1. how the ECU detects cold-engine or cold-environment conditions
2. how extra fuel is injected during only under cold-start conditions

 

So I was messing around with the car tonight checking things out when I came across something really strange. I pulled the distributor cap off and the pulled the ignition coil for testing and behind the ignition coil there is this melted crap inside the distributor. One of the wires leading to the positive terminal on the coil goes directly into this melted mess. Does anyone have any idea what this could be? I'll take some pictures tomorrow when my camera battery is charged.

Could this be my problem:

1993 Toyota Camry - 2.2L 4 Cylinder 140,000 mi,
Visitor

Tricky to diagnose coil failure because you may still have a spark at the plug and think it is some other problem, but in fact the spark is too weak to provide ignition. At 190,000 miles I had the same symptoms (car cranks normally, sounds like the engine wants to catch but never does) So I replaved the coil again, didn't fix it, and after further research learned about the stupid radio filter capacitor inside the distributor will overheat, and the potting will melt. This allows the capacitor to ground out the whole ignition system so the car won't start. Rather than removing the coil again to gain access to the capacitor, I just cut the wire lead from the capacitor going to the terminal connection. Thuis solved the problem. Crazy. For those old enough to remember mechanical distributors, this capacitor was called a condesor and served the same purpose - eliminate radio interference from the distibutor. By the way, cutting the lead did not affect the radio at all!!

 

Post a photo of what you have. The quote refers to the condenser capacitor.

 

I'll guess the pickup coil puked, from his description of a mess that looks melted.

 

Is this the part that's melted in your distributor?

If your car is '93-95, you have two pickup-coils in your distributor.
If your car is '95.5-97 there's one pickup-coil in distributor and one down by crank-pulley (CPS)

They both should be tested using the procedures outline in the threads linked in here:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...a-7th-generation-1993-1997/1239322-list-confirmed-distributor-fault-issues.html

Or you can just get a new Denso distributor. If junkyard used, that too need to be tested, otherwise it may be even more broken than yours.

 

Here's what a puked pickup-coil looks like. Can actually be found by impedance testing even before opening distributor (open circuit).

Inside distributor, there are two sensors with two sets of trigger teeth. Looks kinda like this when you remove the coil & ignitor. This is a from an older Corolla, but similar 1 & 4-tooth triggers.

The sensors are screwed into place with slotted mounting and can vibrate loose over time. You'll want to measure the gap between trigger-teeth and sensor and adjust to spec.

This site gives all the measurement specs on the sensors's resistance along with sensor-gap (use desktop browser): Autozone - Toyota Corolla 1988-1997 Repair Guide. Note that covers multiple generations and EFI versions. First, you need to figure out if you have an '95 OBD-1 car or '95.5 OBD-II. Then find the appropriate section of that guide. Note that it doesn't cover the '95 to '95.5 transition well and doesn't tell you the NE sensor was moved to the crank or how to find the wiring-connector for it.

 

Hopefully you guys can see these pictures. I can see them fine on my camera but on my old computer with a dark screen I can't make them out.

Looks like the condenser capacitor to me.

 

Looks like original potting compound. It may actually soften with heat. Here's how to test a condenser. If you replace, you also need to test it because many nowadays are bad right out of the box.

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/ignition/ig129.htm

 

Looks like original potting compound. It may actually soften with heat. Here's how to test a condenser. If you replace, you also need to test it because many nowadays are bad right out of the box.

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/ignition/ig129.htm

Thanks for the help. I don't think there is much sense in testing it though as it has melted everywhere. The insulation on the wire is cracked as well from it melting on it. Does anyone have a part number for this capacitor? I don't see a part number on it.

I'd like to just replace the whole distributor but it looks like that will cost over 400 dollars. I checked my coil last night and it is borderline. When I replaced the cps a few years ago I bought an aftermarket coil and put it on. It really smoothed the idle out. Unfortunately it would buck and jerk at higher speeds so it was bad out of the box.

 

Well I called Toyota and they want 6 dollars and some change for the part. I'll list the part number once I go pick it up.

 

Not common at all. I think you're only the 2nd person ever to replace the condenser. The other one did it in this thread and didn't solve misfire. It won't solve cold-start issues either. In this case, problem was aftermarket ignition-coil. http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...-7th-generation-1993-1997/1450418-95-occasional-misfires-when-accelerating.html

Mine was fine and not melted. I just mounted a 2nd one in parallel externally to help charge up coil faster. I'll eventually go with a high-power external-coil and ignitor combo, probably MSD HVC-II. Take care of ignition once and for all since that seems to plague these cars the most.

 

Would a bad distributor condenser cause a lot of radio interference, especially on AM? I'm just wondering if this could be a sign that it's gone bad.

 

Very possibly--when the ignition fires, it can create a LOT of interference, and the capacitor (condenser) is designed to mitigate that electrical spike.

That capacitor is definitely blown, and needs to be replaced. I got mine off RockAuto for $2.50 +shipping. These are much simpler devices than ignition coils, and the aftermarket one I put in has been working fine. Maybe that's why Toyota isn't price gouging as badly as they do on the ignition coils

Or I could just mail you the one I pulled out of my distributor...

 

My truck is so old, that in its first year of production, they were still using points. So I read on my truck's forum that crappy/defective brand-new condensers are quite common today. 21st century quality...

Save those original and old condensers from all of the old cars you junk or convert to electronic ignition...

 

Once a replacement has been confirmed to solve the issue I'll add this to the distributor sticky. Interesting twist...

 

The new condenser did not solve the problem. I noticed last night the car started up twice on the first crank after it cooled down outside. The sign at the bank said the temp was 74 F. I just started the car again this morning and it started right up on the first crank and its 64 F out. I still think this an iac issue.

Btw, before finding the melted condenser I pulled vacuum line off the FPR and there was no fuel. I checked the resistance values on the IAT and they were fine. Coil is borderline but if I'm going to replace the coil at $100 dollars I might as well get a whole new distributor from Autozone for $250.

 

You'll be worse off with the autozone distributor.

 

I don't have $400 dollars for a toyota unit. I mean I do, but I don't. I just tried to check the resistance values on the iac but I could only get to two of the prongs. Looked good on those two. I may have to pull the throttle body and iac to thoroughly check it. I also started the car twice and it started on the first crank both times. Still in the 60's out.

Oh and I had a family member start the car with a plug wire disconnected with a spare plug in it. I saw spark but it looked white not blue. I'm not really sure if it looked the way it should or not.

 

I tell ya, cold start enrichment is governed by IAT and ECT values. You need extra fuel on cold-starts and these two items are the ONLY thing that causes extra fuel to be injected. Really simple to test ECT and cheap to replace. All those other items would cause running issues all the time, cold or hot.

 

Every person who's used an aftermarket distributor has had problems. Stalling. Misfires. Won't start hot. Won't start cold. Intermittent no starts. Just nothing but problems. Even aftermarket coils are problematic. One guy had to mount the ICM in the airbox via extended wiring to keep it cool enough to run and restart hot. Others have had to mount them externally to make them work and stay cool and then still have problems. They use bottom bin parts on those rebuilds and it shows. Even with warranty if it leaves you stranded or makes you miss work is it worth it?

 

Yeah, by buying aftermarket distributor or components, you're introducing additional errors into your system that's going to have you chasing your tail in circles. Look at all these people who had all sorts off issues when they used brand new parts from auto-parts stores. They finally fixed it by getting USED Denso parts from junkyard cars!

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...a-7th-generation-1993-1997/1239322-list-confirmed-distributor-fault-issues.html
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...-7th-generation-1993-1997/1450418-95-occasional-misfires-when-accelerating.html

 

Do we know for sure that it's the distributor itself that's the problem, and not just the ignition coil? The reason I ask is that I've been fine with aftermarket rotors, caps, wires, and capacitors, meaning the only thing left is the pickup coil and the ignition coil. Has anyone tried an aftermarket distributor with a Denso coil?

 

There may not be an easy answer to this question as "aftermarket" isn't one manufacturer but a number of different options and build/rebuild qualities. Just as a simple example, your experience with aftermarket rotors is different than another recent example of an aftermarket rotor that actually caused real issues and was way more flimsy than the Denso rotor. So the answer may vary depending on what aftermarket manufactures are in play.

Asked differently: Could you assemble a quality distributor with a combination of Denso pickup coil, Denso ignition coil, and select non-Denso aftermarket components for the rest?

I think the answer is possibly yes for some, and definitely no for some aftermarket options. If you're up for experimenting I guess you could find out

 

Wasn't the 22R in trucks and rear-wheel-drive Celicas? I think the rock-crawler crowd loves those.