if it is blueish gray smoke, most likely bad valve seals/guides.

 

Smoke at first start is usually an indication that the valve guide seals are worn to the point of allowing some engine oil to leak down past them and into the cylinder. This will happen overnight as the engine cools off and when you start in the morning it will burn the oil in the cylinder producing the puff of blue smoke. Is it normal? Not really in my opinion.... but it is all too common in todays high mileage (over 100k mi.) engines.
Some cars do it more than others. It may be caused from many factors, cheap oil, neglecting to change the oil at recommended intervals or overheating the engine. Some people have suggested using a certain type of oil to help control the problem. There are oils that are called "high mileage" oils. These oils are made for cars with over 75K mi. They contain special additives to help soften the rubber valve seals and cause them to seal better. This is the option most people choose as the only other thing to do to remedy the situation is to have the seals replaced ($$$).
Aside from a little embarrassment, It is perfectly fine to drive it this way. I would suggest switching to the high mileage oils at the next oil change and give it a few hundred miles of driving to see if it helps.

 

I have this happen on my 02 camry. There isn't a ton of blue smoke but more a puff on morning/cold start.

My question: will this greatly cause like fouling/carbonizing of the pistons? (perhaps my yearly seafoam will take care of it )

 

See what's involved in changing out the stem seals:

http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/valve_stem/index.html

http://lextreme.com/valve_seals.html

 

I am the original poster and here's a video of my problem:
http://youtu.be/rVDzBs515kc

 

Oh me, I was fine until I read things like, "now let's discuss what happens if you drop blah, blah, blah down into blah, blah, blah".

 

Smoke at first start is usually an indication that the valve guide seals are worn to the point of allowing some engine oil to leak down past them and into the cylinder. This will happen overnight as the engine cools off and when you start in the morning it will burn the oil in the cylinder producing the puff of blue smoke. Is it normal? Not really in my opinion.... but it is all too common in todays high mileage (over 100k mi.) engines.
Some cars do it more than others. It may be caused from many factors, cheap oil, neglecting to change the oil at recommended intervals or overheating the engine. Some people have suggested using a certain type of oil to help control the problem. There are oils that are called "high mileage" oils. These oils are made for cars with over 75K mi. They contain special additives to help soften the rubber valve seals and cause them to seal better. This is the option most people choose as the only other thing to do to remedy the situation is to have the seals replaced ($$$).
Aside from a little embarrassment, It is perfectly fine to drive it this way. I would suggest switching to the high mileage oils at the next oil change and give it a few hundred miles of driving to see if it helps.

VPTUNING
c627627
sundarpn

Guys....
I'm with GuyGene, and think Tbalon has it about right...this is not a situation "where there's smoke, there's fire"....and while not "normal" it's all too typical....more importantly....
VPTUNING, c627627, sundarpn, HOW'S THE ENGINE RUNNING...? IS IT CONSUMING ANY MORE THAN A QUART OF OIL PER 1000 MILES? If not, just add some good oil between OCs and sleep well...

 

My 2002 Camry has 124K on it. Does the amount of smoke coming out as shown on video warrant simply using high mileage oil or do I need to do anything else?

 

My 02 was doing that pretty bad 100k ago. I switched to Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w30 and it slowly diminished to where I can't see it anymore.

 

Have the same issue with my 02 181,000 miles. I was doing research and know exactly what you mean by ur first post. Hopefully someone here can help us. :help:

 

smoking on start up

My 05 4cyl. Camary started doing this around the 152,000 mile mark maybe before just didn't see it. I now have 160,000 miles on the car, check the fluid level regularly and show no oil loss between oil changes. Started using Walmarts Supertech High mileage 5-30 oil two oil changes ago and haven't noticed as much smoking on start up, not going to spend the dollars on repairs as It drives fine and not sure the cost is worth it on an 05 with this mileage. We put a lot of highway miles on this car as we live out of the city and its driven a lot usually a 5,000 mile oil change every 3 months.



robert

 

Thank you for helpful replies. I will apply your suggestions then take another video after a while to see if there is a difference. I do not put that many miles on the car at all, so a long time passes between my oil changes. Specific questions: I am guessing I should not just straight away add Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w30 oil to regular oil in there?


1. Should I not wait and have an oil change done straight away and if so, which oil should I bring with me to have the oil change guy put in, should I go with Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w30?

2. Should I switch to changing the oil every x number of months if I do *not* put on that many miles on the car?

3. How often should I add more oil and to what mark should the oil go to, every x months, if I do not put that many miles on the car?


I did bring this up with a mechanic last weekend when I was having the oil changed for my dad's car, and the mechanic shrugged the high mileage oil idea off, saying how they already put in "the best oil" for our climate here in Kansas, whatever that means. I've always been using a $14.99 oil change coupon with them, I may continue to use the coupon but bring my own oil, so which one should I buy?

 

Thank you for helpful replies. I will apply your suggestions then take another video after a while to see if there is a difference. I do not put that many miles on the car at all, so a long time passes between my oil changes. Specific questions: I am guessing I should not just straight away add Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w30 oil to regular oil in there?

You could mix with existing oil, but would not experience the full effects of the oil because its diluted.

1. Should I not wait and have an oil change done straight away and if so, which oil should I bring with me to have the oil change guy put in, should I go with Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w30?

I think you should go with M1 HM 5w30. Its $22.45 for the 5qt jug at Walmart.

2. Should I switch to changing the oil every x number of months if I do *not* put on that many miles on the car?

Thats one advantage of M1 HM. Its a full syn, so you can switch to a 6 month/yearly oil change interval. The first couple of oil changes should be 6 months because the engine will clean up, seals will condition/swell. Then after that, a yearly oil change interval will be fine.

3. How often should I add more oil and to what mark should the oil go to, every x months, if I do not put that many miles on the car?

You need to come up with a schedule for checking the oil and topping off. Get familiar starting with weekly. I check cold before use. When the oil is in the middle of the 2 "dots", add 1/2 qt. Save a qt bottle for this. Transfer from the walmart 5qt jug to the dedicated top-off bottle. Maybe go buy 1qt of M1 HM 5w30 for this purpose now, or just use a spare bottle.

I did bring this up with a mechanic last weekend when I was having the oil changed for my dad's car, and the mechanic shrugged the high mileage oil idea off, saying how they already put in "the best oil" for our climate here in Kansas, whatever that means. I've always been using a $14.99 oil change coupon with them, I may continue to use the coupon but bring my own oil, so which one should I buy?

Yes mechanics shrug high mileage oil off, because they want to charge you $$$$ to fix it. If i hadn't switched to HM oil, I would have to replace the valve seals along with every other seal on the engine. i havent replaced one single gasket or seal, have no intentions on doing so.

 

For $14.99 your getting what you pay for - the cheapest conventional bulk oil there is combined with a .50c filter. The engines showing the results of that. The oil and filter I'm suggesting is 2X as expensive, but you can go 2X-3X as long, combined with being better for the engine your making out in the long run.

Remember most quick lube/mechanics are looking for profits and their bests interests, not yours.

 

c627627:

Everything Leaky says if just fine, really....but....
You haven't yet identified ANY problem that would suggest the need to change anything you've been doing....
i.e. would changing oil regimen solve the smoke at start.
You don't ID the oil going in your engine....but....
My local Toyo dealer's $20 OC bulk oil is Pennzoil 5w-30 conventional oil, an excellent oil....and the filter is the Toyo OEM, just fine also.

How often do you change oil? in months and miles...
How much oil do you have to add between oil changes? Do you HAVE to add any?

Like too many people...you're overthinking this....well meaning advice may be wanted, but people can't offer any serious advice without more information.

 

My last oil change was 2.5 months ago and because I did take a couple of big trips this time around, I did I put 2200 miles since then, this is my oil level now:

They used 5W30 "Conventional Oil." I have decided to listen to the advice given to me and buy Mobile 1 High Mileage 5w30, so regardless of what they used, it is not going to be used any more.

Consumer reports said that under normal driving conditions, most vehicles are designed to go 7,500 miles or more between oil changes, I go about 5,000 miles between oil changes. Perhaps you can jump on this and say AHA, if you changed it every 3000 miles, this wouldn't be happening.

I appear to be doing oil changes every 6-7 months, so I did change it sometimes with less than 5,000 miles in between.

The main culprit perhaps could be oil quality, so given all this information:

Should I go in right now and do an oil change with Mobile 1 High Mileage 5w30?

 

Thats approx 1/2 qt down in that dipstick pic. Sure go ahead, hopefully M1 HM can tighten the valve seals up and the startup cloud will lessen. Thats what my cloud looked like, can't really see it now. And its never come back. Its going to take a while for M1 HM to work, be patient (2-3k) Also add a couple of bottles of techron concentrate plus to the gas before you change the oil. Get rid of any deposits on the valve and stem that may be hanging things up.

 

Is there only one standard size for techron concentrate plus bottles?
How long after I add them should I wait to change the oil?


Also, should I buy a filter myself, if I were to buy a filter and change my own oil, which one should I buy? What is the best how-to link to change your own oil?
Where do you dispose of oil oil, how much does it cost to dispose?

 

My 07 has been shooting morning smoke since about 60k. Still does it now, at 83k, but I finally switched to M1hm last week. I will be interested to see if it makes a difference in the coming months. It never bothered me to much really, since it only happens on the first start of the day.

 

The problem described is worn valve stem seals. Upon your 1st start up of the day, the seals are cold and let a little bit of oil past them and into the combustion chamber, causing the smoke.. As the engine warms, the seals expand and stop the oil (most of it anyway) from leaking past the seal . Hence the smoking stops.
Synthetics have a smaller molecular structure and will slip more easily past the seals.
The damage to the seals is done. They will eventually need to be changed.

 

If Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w30 oil is exclusively used, will the seals also need to be replaced? Even in cases where High Mileage oil is not making it past the seals as regular engine oil would? After how many miles post Mobil 1 High Mileage 5w30 oil introduction is the blue smoke expected to subside?


Most important question: After how many miles and what is expected to happen if the seals are *not* replaced. What will the consequences be - there are a lot of people who seem to be posting that the unpleasantness of seeing the smoke on first start is the biggest problem here. But the question is what is the nature of engine damage and after how long is it expected to appear?

 

Impossible to predict how many miles before seals have deteriorated to the point where oil seeps past them constantly causing continuous smoking, but it will happen eventually.

 

Should the rest of us who have the Blue Smoke problem also get a new PCV valve? I have a 2002 Camry, it's the generation before your 2007 Camry, how is this installed in 7 minutes?



Thank you. So continuous smoking is the end result of continuing to use regular engine oil and High Mileage oil should extended the time this end result would occur, would that be the conclusion? What is the cost difference in dealing with this now vs. after continuous smoking occurs?

 

M1HM is "supposed" to eventually soften the seals up so they stop the leaking. Maybe if it was used from the start, this never would have happened, but to late to know that now. I just want to get another 80k ot of her and I will be happy. A seal job is NOT one of my planned repairs I could use that kind of cash to add to a down payment on a new Toy.

 

Just picked up a new PCV valve at my local dealer. I seriously doubt it will help, but for $5 and 7 minutes of my time to install, it is a well worth it anyway. And at 85k i'm sure mine is getting clogged.

 

Interesting link to the PCV, I changed my PCV valve on my 02 camry and since then the cold start up smoke has seemed to have gone down a bit. (Now I did clean the old PCV valve many times in it's life till 120K miles, so I dunno...)

 

As the seals get worse, oil will constantly get past them into the combustion chamber and begin to foul the spark plugs. Mileage and performance will both suffer.Not to mention excessive oil consumption. At some future point, it won't matter what type oil you put in it.The damage to the seals have been done.Worse case scenario is plugs will become so fouled the engine won't even start.

I have 393,xxx miles on my Tacoma 4x4 and I don't have this problem, due to regular oil changes. And I use 10w-30 Pennzoil dino oil.

 

I have also done regular oil changes since I bought the car 6 years ago, but yet I do have this problem, and obviously a few other people do to. Maybe our Jedi force is not as strong as yours, but that doesn't matter. The smoke does. But if it makes you feel better, just keep telling us that you are perfect and we are doomed. We will try to figure it out ourselves.

 

All right, obviously the big picture here is what to do short of expensive replacement. Based on what you posted, it sounds like excessive oil useage would be a reliable indicator that the expensive replacement cannot be put off any longer.

Post oil change, after how many miles and what oil level would constitute the kind of excessive oil usage we are talking about?


I have measured the mileage and it is consistent as in years past. This means that at this time, my 2002 Camry is not at that breaking point. It currently has 125K miles on it.

 

Personally, I'm going with the 'lousy factory seals' theory. I've had my 2002 4cyl since new, oil changes consistent at 3-5k miles, usually castrol 5w30. Puff of smoke started around 120K. Switched to M1, we'll see if that helps, but in my case lack of maintenance was not the cause.

 

I think people worry about oil "consumption" and
1. what is acceptable...
2. what's the cause...
3. should I repair...
4. what's the cost of repair...

It is true that there are Camrys that show no drop in oil level between 5-10k OCI
It is true that Camrys "use" oil....typically 1 quart per 5-10k OCI
It is true that some Camrys use more oil...as much as 1qt per 1k miles...

Nearly all my cars, Toyotas and others as well, used about 1/2 quart between 5-6k OCIs....and I felt that was acceptable....that much didn't seem to indicate any malfunction...

If I were losing 1qt per 1k miles I'd be concerned....but if that was on a car with over 150k miles, and if that was consistent I accept that too...and just add 4 quarts over 6k-mi OCIs and know I was replenishing the engine with fresh oil and additives....that would cost no more than $20...

....adding oil @ $20 between $20 6k OCs ($20 for conventional OCs at the dealer) is an extra $40-60 a year...if that were my only "repair" cost for oil loss I think I could live with that (even if I WERE angry about it...)...