I k n o w this has been discussed before.

 

Basically 3vzfe is an iron block so it works better for turbos and such while the 1mzfe is aluminum so it doesn't work as well for forced induction. However the 1mfze is more common and has more mods readily available for it. I think I like the 3vzfe better.

 

I usually don't like to interrupt people's pride (esp. the 3VZ owners), but it bothers me when people really think that the iron block on the 3VZ is like a god-sent gift for boost.

It is ridiculous to choose an engine based on the block without looking at everything else. The block is probably the last thing that it will get destroyed; I'd say way after the pistons, ring lands, rods, headgasket, tranny, axles, etc... in most situations.

In terms of block strength, the sleeves play the most important part in handling boost and power. I can have a rigid iron block with crappy sleeves and it won't handle boost at all. On the other hand, a good set of rigid sleeves in an aluminum block can withstand a good amount of power. A perfect example will be the known weak Honda blocks... After a good resleeving process, they can push over 500+ WHP and 28psi nicely. There are a handful of these resleeved B-series on the road already the last time I was on the Honda boards. They are not "the best" blocks out there, but decent enough to handle 500+ WHP, 28+ psi and 9000RPM daily.

Hey, if you are shooting for 1000+WHP, then an iron block with decent sleeves will get you there. Well, that will be way after the tranny, cylinder heads, crank, etc.. blow up on you first. However, we have no idea how strong the sleeves are on the 3VZ blocks anyway. Will the 3VZ's sleeves be worse than the 1MZ-FE's sleeves? You never know. We need some guy who is either pushing huge amounts of power in a 3VZ-FE, or an experienced engine builder to evaluate the sleeves on the 3VZ block.

Through my engine builder's and my evaluations on the 1MZ-FE block, we think that the sleeves on the 1MZ-FE block are actually pretty strong. It has a closed deck design and has thick sleeves (at stock bore) that are plenty for making great power. The 1MZ-FE also has a very friendly rod-to-stroke ratio which results in a slow piston speed. A slow piston speed will generally let the engine handle a lot more boost and greatly increases durability of the motor, but in the expense of lesser low-end torque and low-end engine response. A slow piston speed is also what lets a Honda engine rev to 9000RPM and still make power yet it will still last a long time -- but at the expense of low-end power.

IMO, I would choose the 1MZ-FE. More HP out of the box, digital ignition system, larger injectors from the factory, MAF-metered (no restrictive flap sensor), and of course, much more support than the 3VZ in terms of aftermarket and OEM parts. You can also supercharge the 1MZ-FE. What can you do to a 3VZ? Turbo? There is only one turbocharged 3VZ that I know of and it's all custom. I don't expect every 3VZ-FE owner out there to rig up his own turbo kit. That's not a job for an amature.

Until now, the Camry still has the 1MZ-FE engine, as well as the Avalon, ES300, etc... That tells you the 1MZ-FE does indeed have a reason to be a good engine. At least we know that there are many 1MZ-FE engine over the 100000 mile mark already and still running strong. And of course, it is much easier to get replacement parts for the 1MZ-FE.

My 1MZ-FE has 100000+ miles before I turbocharged it, and it has been holding up at 10 lbs of boost daily for half a year already Of course, it won't hold up forever, but it's taking up the beatings pretty damn good for now As for the tranny, at least I know that the 1MZ-FE auto tranny holds 268 WHP/TQ with no problems everyday. My tranny went simply because I was making more than 268 WHP If I kept my power at 268, I know it will hold for a good amount of time.

Alright, I am done yapping

 

OT, but.... more videos Tony, more videos!

 

I usually don't like to interrupt people's pride (esp. the 3VZ owners), but it bothers me when people really think that the iron block on the 3VZ is like a god-sent gift for boost.

It is ridiculous to choose an engine based on the block without looking at everything else. The block is probably the last thing that it will get destroyed; I'd say way after the pistons, ring lands, rods, headgasket, tranny, axles, etc... in most situations.

In terms of block strength, the sleeves play the most important part in handling boost and power. I can have a rigid iron block with crappy sleeves and it won't handle boost at all. On the other hand, a good set of rigid sleeves in an aluminum block can withstand a good amount of power. A perfect example will be the known weak Honda blocks... After a good resleeving process, they can push over 500+ WHP and 28psi nicely. There are a handful of these resleeved B-series on the road already the last time I was on the Honda boards. They are not "the best" blocks out there, but decent enough to handle 500+ WHP, 28+ psi and 9000RPM daily.

Hey, if you are shooting for 1000+WHP, then an iron block with decent sleeves will get you there. Well, that will be way after the tranny, cylinder heads, crank, etc.. blow up on you first. However, we have no idea how strong the sleeves are on the 3VZ blocks anyway. Will the 3VZ's sleeves be worse than the 1MZ-FE's sleeves? You never know. We need some guy who is either pushing huge amounts of power in a 3VZ-FE, or an experienced engine builder to evaluate the sleeves on the 3VZ block.

Through my engine builder's and my evaluations on the 1MZ-FE block, we think that the sleeves on the 1MZ-FE block are actually pretty strong. It has a closed deck design and has thick sleeves (at stock bore) that are plenty for making great power. The 1MZ-FE also has a very friendly rod-to-stroke ratio which results in a slow piston speed. A slow piston speed will generally let the engine handle a lot more boost and greatly increases durability of the motor, but in the expense of lesser low-end torque and low-end engine response. A slow piston speed is also what lets a Honda engine rev to 9000RPM and still make power yet it will still last a long time -- but at the expense of low-end power.

IMO, I would choose the 1MZ-FE. More HP out of the box, digital ignition system, larger injectors from the factory, MAF-metered (no restrictive flap sensor), and of course, much more support than the 3VZ in terms of aftermarket and OEM parts. You can also supercharge the 1MZ-FE. What can you do to a 3VZ? Turbo? There is only one turbocharged 3VZ that I know of and it's all custom. I don't expect every 3VZ-FE owner out there to rig up his own turbo kit. That's not a job for an amature.

Until now, the Camry still has the 1MZ-FE engine, as well as the Avalon, ES300, etc... That tells you the 1MZ-FE does indeed have a reason to be a good engine. At least we know that there are many 1MZ-FE engine over the 100000 mile mark already and still running strong. And of course, it is much easier to get replacement parts for the 1MZ-FE.

My 1MZ-FE has 100000+ miles before I turbocharged it, and it has been holding up at 10 lbs of boost daily for half a year already Of course, it won't hold up forever, but it's taking up the beatings pretty damn good for now As for the tranny, at least I know that the 1MZ-FE auto tranny holds 268 WHP/TQ with no problems everyday. My tranny went simply because I was making more than 268 WHP If I kept my power at 268, I know it will hold for a good amount of time.

Alright, I am done yapping

Tony.You forgot the 5vz-fe is base on a 3vz-fe and the 3VZ-fe crank is forge which is the same crank found on the 5vz-fe. Rods will hold 400 to 500whp with no problem. The rods are very stout... Its basically the same thickness as the 5vz-fe.
The reason why I know this ... is because I've seen both the internals of both engines... I have a friend who made 600whp on his 5vz-fe before he blew it. The 5vz-fe was making 350+whp on just supercharger alone. And he runs a dual stage NOS kit 150 + 200 shot...
The 3vz-fe crank was use as a upgrade unit for 5vz-fe motors. Theres alot of potential on the 3vz-fe than a 1mz-fe... I've seen how far you could push the 1mz-fe... can someone say 13psi on TRD supercharger, undisclosed shot of NOS, Aquamist, and a upgraded MAF unit... The first thing that let go was rods and they went striaght thru the block... I personnally have a bad taste in my mouth for the 1mz-fe. But dont get me wrong the motor has alot of potential , you just need to build it...

 

Justin,
What is the weak point of the 3vz? What should be built or changed before to much power is added?

Most know that you need new heads on the 1mz and stronger rods.

 

Justin,
What is the weak point of the 3vz? What should be built or changed before to much power is added?

Most know that you need new heads on the 1mz and stronger rods.

pistons and after that it would have to be the cams, valves, valve springs, headgasket and head bolts...

 

Ok. So im right on with my build up plans.

 

3vzfe
-Pros-
strong cylinders (600hp+)
strong crank (600hp+)
strong rods (400hp+)
-cons-
Weak pistons
heavy block
bad head design
stock injectors are 200cc

1mzfe
-Pros-
strong crank (600hp+)
stong sleves (450hp+)
bigger injectors stock 270cc
almost 100lbs lighter then the 3vzfe
head good for major flow and porting
-cons-
Weak rods
weak pistons
some models have a return-less fuel system
stock head bolts suck

 

3vzfe
-Pros-
strong cylinders (600hp+)
strong crank (600hp+)
strong rods (400hp+)
-cons-
Weak pistons
heavy block
bad head design
stock injectors are 200cc

1mzfe
-Pros-
strong crank (600hp+)
stong sleves (450hp+)
bigger injectors stock 270cc
almost 100lbs lighter then the 3vzfe
head good for major flow and porting
-cons-
Weak rods
weak pistons
some models have a return-less fuel system
stock head bolts suck

Ben, that actually wraps up the pros and cons very well. Both motors aren't really a canditate for big power in stock form. They have to be built regardless. When both motors are built, the heads, etc.. will be the next thing to look at.

Anyway, which Toyota car came with the 5VZ-FE?

 

Well the 5vzfe was used in the 4runner/Tacoma/Tundra/T100 so you can see it was a prety good engine to be used in every truck ..

 

Well, coming from a guy who doesn't know squat about engine internals or engines in general, I say get the 1mz.
Remember this opinion is coming from a guy who is not gonna turbo or supercharge his motor and will leave it stock for the most part.
Having said that, well you just can't say the 4 banger is better than the 6 in its stock form in terms of power(which is what I am looking for in a motor).

 

Ben, that actually wraps up the pros and cons very well. Both motors aren't really a canditate for big power in stock form. They have to be built regardless. When both motors are built, the heads, etc.. will be the next thing to look at.

Anyway, which Toyota car came with the 5VZ-FE?

The 5VZ-FE is found on a 3.4Liter V6 Tacomas , 3.4Liter V6 4Runners, 3.4Liter V6 Tundras, and the Sequoai...

 

I'm thinking about getting a v6 Camry. I'm not sure if I'd want a gen3 or gen3.5 one. For a 92-93 I could get a v6 5 speed stick sedan or for 94-96 an v6 automatic coupe.

When I was looking for a car to replace my 1993 Camry 5S-FE, I strongly considered the 1MZ-FE since it is newer. But then I was going to settle on the 3VZ-FE for 3 reasons - one was mentioned a few times, about the stronger iron block, but some good points were made by Tony.

But the big selling point for me was the cam profile of the 3VZ-FE. I am a big fan of low end torque and the 3VZ-FE torque curve is almost flat! It looks beautiful! The 1MZ-FE sacrificed low end for high end and better gas mileage. But it depends on where your priorities lie.

The last factor for me picking the 3VZ-FE is that since it came on the early gen 3 Camrys, they are cheaper to buy... and still just as reliable and good as the later gen 3.

Hope I was able to give you another view on the situation (low end torque = lotsa' fun!) You can always mod to get top end power, but low end power is harder to attain unless you already have it.

P.S. Do a search and you should be able to find comparative dyno graphs of the different gen 3 engines, posted by me about a year and a half ago (if the database goes that far back)

EDIT: Here's the link: http://www.toyotanation.com/showthread.php?threadid=2567

Notice the low end of the 3VZ-FE vs the 1MZ-FE.

 

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I had a burning question. I've googled the subject quite a bit, and it seems there is a general consensus that the 3VZ-FE has more responsive lower end than the 1MZ-FE.

Why does the following dyno graph show the 1MZ-FE to have an equivalent powerband (if anything, slightly more responsive) as the 3VZ-FE?

The above graph was found in this forum: http://www.mr2.com/forums/threads/8684-V6-Dyno-Collection

 

Honestly I don't like either because they are very difficult to work on, especially when you need to get to the back of the engine, and replacing the valve cover gaskets are impossible.

The only reason to get a V6 is if you wanted an Avalon or ES300.

My choice would be a 5-speed 5S-FE with a sunroof

But between the two, the 1MZ is a better engine: about 100 lb lighter, noticeably better gas mileage, no distributor, and also the 3VZ has head gasket issues (common to most if not all iron blocks with alum heads).

Unless you must have a stick, the 1MZ is better than the 3VZ.

Although they're not as common, Toyota did offer the Camry V6 with a stick from 97-01--IF you can find one, that is. Too bad it wasn't available on the 97-01 ES300 though

 

I disagree on a few things having both the 1MZ and 3VZ. The 3VZ most certainly makes torque at lower rpm it's quite obvious. Having a distributor is not a minus, you can change ignition timing try doing that on a 1MZ. The mileage on the 1MZ is not that much better, but yes it is better more noticeable on the highway. The 3VZ is very heavy this is true no arguing that. But it's a great engine for tuning because the OBD-I system will tolerate a heck of a lot before it codes, has lower compression and very sturdy internals so it can tolerate boost nicely. The 1MZ had its sludge issues and also is susceptible to carbon built up. the 3VZ has no such issues and it is nearly impossible to cause detonation in the engine.

I think the 3VZ-FE is the best V6 Toyota has built so far.

 

71 corolla makes some really good points here! I've tuned my 92 3vz-fe 5spd (e153) using just my AEM wideband, and am currently getting 23MPG (imperial gallons for those who like to know). I've got room to tune more lean as well. (currently still N/A) I also own and drive a 1mz-fe seinna and i highly recommend the 3vz-fe over the 1mz-fe.

 

The graphs and numbers were oh-so-close to being right for stock 3vz's, and 1mz's, just a tiny bit off. The 1mz-fe, made the bigger hp. numbers (from 3 to 30hp or so over the years) in North America. If you research the 3VZ-FE in later years in foreign markets, you would find that the power output differences are almost insignificant. The 3VZ's tuning and cam profiles are able to nearly match the 1MZ's hp outputs, but clearly trump its torque output, over the whole rpm range.

These engines are identicle twins. Every spec., bore/ stroke, bearing clearances, other clearances,valve sizeing, are all the same. These engines are identicle in fact, except for the differences required by having an aluminum block, and more up-to-date casting tech., to make slighty better flowing heads in the 1MZ-FE. (high rpm power) The 3VZ's cam timing is ever so slighty better for much better (lower rpm hp and torque) power output.

I don't think I see a great story for one over the other in all of this thread. Both engines are pretty good from my perspective, except that the old 3VZ-FE, runs on OBD1, and that system is so forgiving that it will let me do my little electric supercharging (3-4psi when you want it) game with no mods to the tuneing of the car, nothing nada!:wink: I have yet to see if a 1MZ-FE can do this.

Thanks for pulling this old thread up, I think I just learned that I can put 270cc injectors from a 1MZ-FE into my 3VZ-FE, with 200cc stock injectors. This is very good information when you are just tweeking around stock limitations.:smile: