Are you saying that the starter will not crank (spin over) the engine at times, or that the starter cranks the engine over and the engine doesn't start? You need to clarify this so we can point you in the right direction.

Mike

 

The starter spins the engine everytime. When I try to start it one of three things happens:

1. The engine will not fire
2. The engine will fire and run very rough and then stall out shortly after
3. The engine will fire up fine and run like a top with no issues whatsoever

I recently gave the car a tune up with a new distributor, wires, fuel pump, spark plugs, fuel filter, and timing belt. I was thinking maybe a ground somewhere was loose or the ECU is going bad but I'm not sure where to look or how to test these things.

 

check for the stored trouble codes

 

It sounds like a problem with the cold start injector time switch. Don't be fooled, it also acts while the starter is engaged (so it can affect cold and warm starts).

You can check for power at the cold start injector (middle of the manifold, has a fuel line and an electrical connection to it and bolts to the manifold) to see if the switch is failing. When cold, it should have power while cranking and after until the engine warms up a bit, when the engine is hot, it should only have power while cranking.

When mine when out (broke in half!) it would take 5+ seconds to start and was very difficult to keep running for a when cold (Southern California cold, not real cold). Warm starts were hit and miss.

-Charlie

 

I will check that. When I get the car up to opperating temp, I can turn the car off and I will have the same trouble trying to start it again. Sometimes it will fire right away, other time I try and try again. Would the cold start injector still play a role if the engine is at temp? EDIT: Sorry, I reread your post and say where you said it also affects warm and cold starts.

I tried to pull the codes by jumping the TE1 and T1 diagnostic terminals but my Check Engine light just flashed constantly. I counted up to 120 before I gave up. Maybe I wasn't doing it right?

 

I agree with whitedx90 that the cold start time switch needs to be tested. To do this you will need a digital volt/ohmeter and the specs from any manual. The cold start time switch is located on a coolant port to the right of the engine block, as you are standing in front of the engine. It is located under a brown colored plastic connector. Remove the connector and touch the 2 probes of the meter (set at the proper ohm scale) to the 2 prongs on the switch. Removing the connector can be a bit of a chore. The best way I found to do that is to pry each side of the locking tab out and then stick a toothpick or small probe on each side to keep it from snapping back to it's locking position. Do that to each side and and then wiggle the connector off. Maybe someone can suggest a better way to remove that locking connector.

Mike

 

I was able to get the connector off and test the cold start time switch. It was right around 34ohms. From what I can tell 30-35 is the acceptable range. There is also a little wire that connects to the head directly to the left of the cold start time switch. The connection looks very oily, if it's important for starting the car I could see this area being a problem. Does anyone know what it is?

 

The connection looks very oily, if it's important for starting the car I could see this area being a problem. Does anyone know what it is?

That's the oil pressure switch. It is only connected to the dummy light on the dash and doesn't affect how the car runs.

There very well could be other sensors that are bad on the car (water temp sensor, etc.). It would be worth double checking anything you can find.

It sounds like you were checking codes correctly. Just constant reasonably quick flashes, yeah? If so, that means no codes are stored.

-Charlie

 

Ok, that's good to know and yes they were just constant quick flashes.

The water temp senor is new since last summer before the starting issue began and the guage registers coolant temp correctly.

Only other sensors I can think of are the air flow sensor and the throttle position sensor. Any other sensors related to starting I should check?

Another thing I noticed, when I crank the car over and it runs rough the throttle doesn't affect the engine at all. When I crank the car over it will sometimes barely idle and will shake roughly. When this happens I can put the gas pedal to the floor and it doesn't affect idle one bit. I thought this was very strange considering it should be letting air into the intake and increasing the RPMs or at least stalling it out.

 

"The water temp senor is new since last summer before the starting issue began and the guage registers coolant temp correctly."

I think you are talking about the sensor that sends the signal to the gage on the dash. I think white90dx is talking about the one that feeds information to the computer to determine the basic fuel mixture. That one is referred to as the engine coolant temperature sensor (and sometimes it's called the ECT sesnor in some of the Toyota Manuals). It should be under a green plastic connector on the same coolant port where you found the cold start time switch. Get the DVM out again and the manual and check that sensor. Check it both cold and hot.

Mike

 

The coolant sensor is checking out ok. Right now I'm thinking it might be either the TPS, MAF, or a ground. Any good ways to check to see if the power to the MAF, TPS, and everything else is grounded?



Think it could be a loose ground somewhere?

 

You may want to double check connectors on the fuel pump ( under the rear seat) and hoses on the top of the gas tank (vapor recovery)
Then try to start/run the engine with jumper between B+ and FP connector
if these tests will not make difference run the compression test

 

What will the jumper between the B+ and FP connector do?

 

It will power the fuel pump directly from the main relay so even if AFM or circuit opening (fuel pump) relay are having problems the pump will still run. This will build up the pressure in the system for start up; if the engine will run very good after starting with jumper but will start to miss 3 seconds after start, the fuel pump may have issue

 

If you have tried everything else: IGNITION SWITCH.

The starter works every time but engine runs rough. try this: start the engine, if it runs rough: fiddle with the key just a fraction! What i mean is, apply light pressure and move the key in a SLIGHTLY different position. (Not to off, just using the play within the ignition switch itself in the "run" position, and that is caused from wear). If this does not make it runs smooth, try the other way. If your engine smooths out - change the ignition switch.

I actually saw this after i helped my dad change the engine in his old dodge truck years ago. Remanufactured engine, ran great for a minute, shut it off and went inside to have lunch. On next start, it ran like crap! i checked the vacuum hoses, the fuele filter, plugs etc. and we could not figure this out! A really crack mechanic tracked down the problem in about 30 seconds - the engine ran badly with the worn switch in one position but ran fine just by nudging it a very tiny amount.

 

If you have tried everything else: IGNITION SWITCH.

The starter works every time but engine runs rough. try this: start the engine, if it runs rough: fiddle with the key just a fraction! What i mean is, apply light pressure and move the key in a SLIGHTLY different position. (Not to off, just using the play within the ignition switch itself in the "run" position, and that is caused from wear). If this does not make it runs smooth, try the other way. If your engine smooths out - change the ignition switch.

If anyone tries this, be careful. By a fraction, take that literally. At one time my Camry ran so quietly that I couldn't really hear the engine over a low volume radio. So I once turned the key past the accessory position just a little while the car was running. It made one of the most ungodly screeches I've ever heard, haha. And about four months later my starter went out. It was the OEM starter and was old, but who knows, I might have even chipped my drive plate. Even the replacement went out some time later. The last one I put in has been okay. So treat everything with kid gloves.

Glad the thread starter resolved the problem. The roughest my car has ever run and turned off was when I had my distributor wires crossed. Another time was when I had one spark plug out, and another when the brake booster hose was loose. All this kinda' stuff is trial and error pretty much. I'd never put a remote starter in myself.

 

I tried to get fiddle with the key while it was running rough and that didn't help out. Also priming the engine by jumping the pins didn't help either.

When I turn the car over and it doesn't start I hear something that sounds like "clink clink....clink". Sometimes I hear one clink other times as many as two or three, very inconsistent. Sounds somewhat similar to when you connect a strong power source, same kind of "clink". Might just be my imagination making it want to be an electricial issue, but that's what it sounds like to me. From in the driver's seat it sounds like it's coming from behind the lower part of the dash. Is there a ground strap there that could be loose?

I've also notice that my cheap CD deck will sometimes reset all of it's saved stations and lose the time. Sometimes the starter will also struggle to turn over, but if I stop, try to turn it over again it'll turn over with ease.

 

Have a little bit of an update:

I checked every sensor in the haynes manual with no luck. Found a few little things but nothing that helps with the starting issue. I've also taken it to two mechanics who said they couldn't find anything wrong with it and they both suggested replacing the computer. Can anyone let me know of a good place to find a replacement computer? Do these things go bad sometimes? How hard are they to replace?

 

I also have a similar problem starting my 1991 V6 Camry. Over the past three weeks had the starter, alternator and battery replaced and still have the same issue. The car starts when cold and can run for several days. But sometimes just won't restart, won't crank at all. No sound like a dead battery. When it sits a few hours I can get it started fine. We are at a loss as to what to do next.

 

It's your IGNITION SWITCH. When you replace that it will fix your problems. If you take off the upper steering column you can see the switch on the left side, opposite of the key lock cylinder. It has several soldered pieces attached. If you look at it and smell it it should smell slightly burned or look slightly burned.

 

Sorry it's been a while since I've posted, but I'll give you all an update. After combing through every sensor and testing every part in the engine bay with no luck, and stumping three mechanics, I was about to give up. Then after having to roll start my car for about a week straight, I crawled under the dash and started looking at the wiring. At some point in time someone had installed a remote starter and did a complete hack job on it. There were exposed wires, poor electrical tape jobs, and no sign of a connector or use of a crimping tool. So I spent about three weeks working an hour here and there trying to sort through that mess. Once I got everything back as close to stock as I could (which was a headache from hell) it hasn't left me stranded since.

I guess this shouldn't have been a surprise, considering someone before me had installed the front sway bar upside down, and also put the driver's side automatic seat belt on a switch on dash so it no longer worked with the door.

Thank you guys for all your help, I learned a ton about these cars going through this process.

 

I wouldn't risk a possible fire and would just replace the switch to be on the safe side.