How do we drive hybrids in cold temp? Like other cars we wait for them to warm up do we do that aswell? First time i’ll drive a hybrid in cold temp. From the central valley in cali and it can get like in the 30s at times with the windows all frozen and what not. How we drive em? Anyone know?

 

Just like any other car. Get in, turn the car on. The computers will know to start the engine to get the coolant warmed up.

Get outside and start scraping windows. Get back inside and start driving.

Now, it's unfortunate, the CA "all-season washer fluid" in certain areas, is only the weak 0°F stuff. You have to go out of state to get -25°F or colder stuff.

 

There is no tricks.
Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive is operated by Toyota algorithm and there's nothing you can do about it.
After you start the system, depending on the hybrid battery status, ICE may or may not turn on.
After it starts, it will work until hybrid battery achieves 80% charge and catalytic converter reaches operational temperature.
System is geared towards satisfaction of EPA criteria.
When that is accomplished, ICE simply is being turned off.
And that is in a vehicle, that has ICE as primary heat source.
My 07 TCH had piezoelectric preheater, installed as factory add-on onto the heater core. I had full heat in less than a mile of driving. Far I know, they discontinued them in later models.
But pre heating car sitting in garage or parking lot - meh... You got to MOVE in order for coolant to reach proper temp faster.

 

Oregon no issues.. cold means more arctic like, not nippy

 

Hybrids in Toyotas are what they would call "wicked smaht" in New England! They have a heat exchanger on our mufflers which pumps coolant through there to help the car quickly heat up.

When I'm driving to work in the winter, here in Colorado, I can feel it heating up only after driving about five miles.

A tip for hybrid owners is to tap in the gas pedal after starting the car which will make the ICE start up a little quicker than normal.

 

Hybrids in Toyotas are what they would call "wicked smaht" in New England! They have a heat exchanger on our mufflers which pumps coolant through there to help the car quickly heat up.

Really? I'd like to see that, if you have reference. I've been under TCH many times, never saw any coolant lines or similar, run to muffler, that being at the end of the exhaust system.

 

I think Toyota Hybrids have an auxiliary electric heater to supplement the main heater core to keep from running the engine more than necessary. Even then you will notice your gas mileage going down because the computer is going to run the engine more for the heater.

 

If you really have to, you can put system into the maintenance mode at start up. Then, it runs just like a regular ICE car, so you can "preheat" it.. For how long, that I do not know. Wild guess, until you start driving.

 

Scratching my head.... Muffler is at the very end of the exhaust pipe.... Looks like Prius heat exchanger is between cats..... Can't find any reference to it for TCH though....

#17430 is MUFFLER
17410 and 1700 are cats....
17420 should be resonator

Out of curiosity, anyone saw any coolant lines going to their TCH exhaust? Definitely not on one I owned.

 

Having a heat exchanger at the muffler is pretty pointless, as it's too far from the engine exhaust manifold, for maximum transfer, as too much heat is already lost. This is why the heater core is as close to the engine as possible to minimize heat loss and pumping loses.

 

Just get in the car and drive. It will warm up as you go. Nothing special.

 

Maybe this is a placebo effect, I seem to get better fuel economy if I wait to turn on the heat until after the engine comes close to normal operating temperature. Almost as if the engine stays on longer in the beginning to generate heat for the cabin which does not maximize economy. But I could be wrong. Temperature is too variable near me to test this theory.

 

Well, yes, that is how it is. The engine runs more at first to warm itself up, even if it's not needed for any other purpose. I always wait to turn my heat on until after the car has warmed up. If you put it in "eco", it will not warm up the engine for you (reducing heating effect).

 

Most countries that have this severe temperature usually have the option to install a block heater to warm the car enough to start.

 

The block heater is for the engine block, not the HV batteries.

 

I have a 2020 Camry Hybrid with about all the electronics available. It is a joy to own and to drive. However, I'm bothered by the statement on page 211 of the Owner's Manuel, "When the hybrid battery (traction battery) is extremely cold (below approximately -22ᵒF [-30ᵒC]) under the influence of the outside temperature, it may not be possible to start the hybrid system. In this case, try to start the system again after the temperature of the hybrid system increases due to the outside temperature increase, etc.” This is an issue concerning the properties of Li-ion batteries and not unique to our hybrid and can be a significant issue for people who either live in northern states or who drive into clod areas during a brutal winter.

Since all new Camrys are hybrid, is there provision for warming the traction battery during cold weather operation? If not, has Toyota given up on providing a popular car for year-round use in all parts of the country?

This is why battery operated cars and cold climates don’t play well. I suspect the sales people don’t mention it. Especially the greatly reduced capacity at even +30 degrees.

 

Don't fool yourself, ICE vehicles efficiency is also reduced during cold weather conditions. I have driven my hybrid Camry in temperatures of 15-20ᵒF and never got lower than a 40 mpg tank average. Sure, that's 8 mpg less than my fair weather average. But far better than the ICE Camry's get. Temperature for temperature, a hybrid Camry will outperform it's ICE counterpart every time.

 

So far, have not seen a single word of such problems, even from Alaska and Canada owners.

 

Here's -35C start Prius

 

I have a 2020 Camry Hybrid with about all the electronics available. It is a joy to own and to drive. However, I'm bothered by the statement on page 211 of the Owner's Manuel, "When the hybrid battery (traction battery) is extremely cold (below approximately -22ᵒF [-30ᵒC]) under the influence of the outside temperature, it may not be possible to start the hybrid system. In this case, try to start the system again after the temperature of the hybrid system increases due to the outside temperature increase, etc.” This is an issue concerning the properties of Li-ion batteries and not unique to our hybrid and can be a significant issue for people who either live in northern states or who drive into clod areas during a brutal winter.

Since all new Camrys are hybrid, is there provision for warming the traction battery during cold weather operation? If not, has Toyota given up on providing a popular car for year-round use in all parts of the country?

Not very many vehicles will start at -22ᵒF without some sort of intervention of heat. It's not quite as much of a problem today with the new 0 viscosity synthetic motor oils, but "back in the day" you weren't going anywhere without a block heater plugged in of some sort at that temperature. With a modern hybrid vehicle it's the traction battery that needs the heat. If you can get the hybrid system to start, I can pretty much guarantee that MG1 (55HP) will get the ICE started far easier than any starter motor on a standard ICE car will, block heater or not.

If I lived in a climate where the temperature routinely dropped to -22ᵒF or less, I would simply slide the passenger seat all the way forward in my Camry hybrid and place a very small fan powered electric heater set on low on the floor aimed at the battery air intake at the left corner of the rear seat. You don't have to cook the battery, all you have to do is keep it above the -22ᵒF mark. You would have to experiment to find a heater that blew a fair volume of air at a low enough heat that you would feel safe with. And I would probably buy a flat wire 14g extension cord to be able to get the rear door shut. But it could be done with a little ingenuity and care. I do find it amazing though that there aren't already "kits" out there to take care of this very thing. So there's something for the entrepreneurial inclined to work on and get rich. 💲💲

 

OP is concerned about startability. Don't matter the mpg if car won't start. Just my 2 cents.

 

I think I covered that in a prior post.

 

Camry Hybrid does not have an exhaust heat exchanger as does my bro's Lexus CT200h (1.8 Hybrid)... It wraps the exhaust at catalyst outlet, and of course not back at the cold muffler.

Abgaswärmerückgewinnung (Exhaust Heat Recovery) – Prius Wiki

 

So I can get in and go long as the cars warmer than -10C or so. Any colder and you should let it warm up. I have 403,000KM logged so far. Anything between -10C to -38C I don't have difficulty starting the car long as I've been driving it regularly as in no less than 2 days apart in cold weather. You let a car remain untouched say between -20 to -38C for a few days then it's anyone's guess if the smaller AGM battery survived it and if it needs a boost first.

Our area Toyota dealers sell a hardware addon called comfort+ which adds a space heater to the engine block heater and a battery trickle charger. Its not cheap and its rebranded from a different manufacturer who's name I don't recall at the moment.

 

It sounds like you may have NMH traction batteries, they behave as chemical batteries and can function at low temperatures. The Li-ion batteries rather abruptly cease either to either deliver or accept a charge when temperatures are too low. Honda provides no guidance on what constitutes too low a temperature, but Toyota identifies it as about -22 F (-30 C) and below.

 

I have read through every post here twice. It seems no one with a hybrid has actually experienced attempting to start the car after it has been sitting outside in weather colder than-30 degrees C, -22 degrees F.

One of you suggested putting a space heater on the floor behind the front seat, but hadn’t actually done that (because, I think, they hadn’t experienced that much cold). There was also the suggestion that some 3rd party should market something.

I called the Fairbanks AK dealer and he was unaware of a traction battery heater. He thought Canadians might know more (he suggested Toyota treated Alaska as they treated other USA states).

An email to an Edmonton AB dealer didn’t yield anything helpful.

I want to be able to take my car (a 2025 Camry) into very cold country, and am disappointed with the lack of seriousness of those with whom I’ve communicated, and of Toyota generally.

Best of luck to all of us! bob

 

I have read through every post here twice. It seems no one with a hybrid has actually experienced attempting to start the car after it has been sitting outside in weather colder than-30 degrees C, -22 degrees F.

One of you suggested putting a space heater on the floor behind the front seat, but hadn’t actually done that (because, I think, they hadn’t experienced that much cold). There was also the suggestion that some 3rd party should market something.

I called the Fairbanks AK dealer and he was unaware of a traction battery heater. He thought Canadians might know more (he suggested Toyota treated Alaska as they treated other USA states).

An email to an Edmonton AB dealer didn’t yield anything helpful.

I want to be able to take my car (a 2025 Camry) into very cold country, and am disappointed with the lack of seriousness of those with whom I’ve communicated, and of Toyota generally.

Best of luck to all of us! bob

I lived in Sidney MT for 5 months for work from November to March in 1982. It got down to -40 deg. F for 2 weeks and was below 0 deg. F for a good month. Every vehicle there had an engine heater and I had to get one for mine as well. You couldn't survive there without one. I am also amazed about the lack of seriousness Toyota seems to have regarding this. It's hard to believe the difficulties associated with temperatures of -30 to -40 deg. F unless you've actually experienced it. People in Sidney would leave their cars running in the parking lot locked while they were inside shopping. If you left your car unattended for an hour shut off, it most likely wasn't going to start when you got back to it. They just carried two sets of keys. It was a way of life.

I found this video from a dealership in ON Canada.

Tips For Your Toyota: How to Find the Block Heater

Every car there leaves the dealership with a block heater unless the customer requests otherwise. They might be able to help you in your quest to winterize your Camry.

 

Sounds bad but it fired right up.

 

No problem with the battery there. I would still want an engine block heater though. If you live where it get's that cold, that should just be a given.

 

Unfortunately, only a plug-in hybrid or full EV will have a large enough battery to support heat for the traction battery. Camry is not available as a plug-in hybrid. Hopefully, Toyota will realize they need to sell cars people want to drive that are dependable in all weather.

Well, I really don't see much difference in this regard between a hybrid Camry compared to a non hybrid Camry, or any straight gas vehicle for that matter. Both vehicles should have an engine block heater as well as an electric thermal battery blanket for the 12v battery under those extreme conditions. No change there. But a big nod actually goes to the hybrid being better suited to starting under these extreme conditions due to the fact that it uses a direct drive 54 hp motor applying power directly to the crank shaft to start the car, instead of a small gear reduction starter motor that produces maybe 2 hp of power. Add that to the fact that the starter motor on a straight gas engine only cranks the engine at 200 to 300 rpm compared to the 54 hp MG1 spinning the motor at 1200 to 1500 rpm to start it. Quite a difference. I don't know if you noticed how quickly that RAV4 in @rl1910's post started as well as the Prius in @ukrkoz's video did. It was right now.

So the big thing in question is how well the Li-Ion traction battery will hold up and operate in these extreme conditions. Toyota says the battery will function down to -22f. But what will happen to it if left unattended in -40f temperature for a period of time. I don't know the answer to that. We need someone to chime in that's actually experienced it with their Li-Ion battery equipped hybrid. Some say it will brick the battery and forever be toast. Other's say Li-Ion batteries can survive if left to thaw out on their own without trying to artificially accelerate the process. And then there's those that say you can actually restore the life to a Li-Ion battery by putting it in the freezer for 24 hours. Who is right? I don't know. But I do know that it wouldn't prevent me from owning a hybrid if I had the unfortunate reality of living in a place where it got that cold. I would just approach it the same way people did when I lived in Sidney MT for the Winter.

In Sidney there were two ways of handling it. You either plugged your car in (everybody had engine heaters and electric wraps around their batteries) or you simply left it running if you couldn't plug it in. If you didn't, you could forget about using that car until next Spring when it finally thawed out. I worked for a trucking company and we had a truck that sat idling for at least 6 weeks because we didn't have a driver for it. We just had to keep fueling it up because if it ever died and sat for more than an hour, it was done for the season because we'd never be able to get it started again until after the thaw.

One of you suggested putting a space heater on the floor behind the front seat, but hadn’t actually done that (because, I think, they hadn’t experienced that much cold).

Yup. That was me. But I haven't had to try it because I don't live where it get's that cold anymore, not because I hadn't experienced it. In fact, I got the idea from living in Sidney where some people would actually put a small heater in their cars just to keep the seats from cracking when they got into the car. A small heater on low is perfectly fine if placed properly. This is what I was referring to.

This is a little ceramic heater that I have and the passenger seat is slid all the way forward. The shell of the heater is pretty much cool to the touch and when on low I can hold my hand about 18" in front of it without much discomfort. I have it aimed at the battery air intake on the right corner of the seat. The nice thing about Toyota's latest hybrids is that the battery is under the rear seat within the passenger compartment, so it benefit's from the climate within the car. Keep in mind that you only have to keep it above -22f to be sure the system will turn on. Once on you're home free.

If I ever had to move back to a place like Sidney MT (God forbid!) I wouldn't hesitate to do this. It's no different than what other people living there are doing already if they want their cars to survive. And if you don't have access to a power outlet and you have to resort to leaving your car running, our hybrids are the perfect vehicle for that too. Far better than a straight gas car. Because the hybrid system can be left on indefinitely and it will start and stop the engine on a "as needed" basis, instead of just leaving it running all the time. You can just set the hvac on LO and that would be sufficient to keep the battery and interior at a reasonable temperature. People who are into "van life" like buying Sienna's because they can just leave them on all night to keep warm in the Winter and cool in the Summer. The van uses very little gas while maintaining their comfort level. This put's our hybrids on another level when it comes to keeping it ready for use under extreme conditions. Just keep gas in the tank with a fuel additive to keep moisture from freezing in the bottom of the tank. And you can even lock the car and leave it running if you need to leave it. Simply start the system, lock all the doors, open the drivers door only from the interior handle, and once outside with the door closed, use the mechanical key from your fob to lock the door. Voila'! Car's locked and the system is on. Then you just have to unlock the car with the mechanical key when you return.

These are really superior vehicles under extreme conditions if just understood and used properly. I hope this helps anyone concerned about this.

 

I was talking about this to a mechanic friend of mine who used to live in Minnesota and is well aware of what -40f is like for a vehicle. He also drives a hybrid Toyota, only it's a 2024 RAV4. He said why not just put an electric blanket over the back seat? Sounded like a viable option to me. Certainly worth a try. Just make sure the rear battery vent is clear after you get the car started.

Again, we're just trying to keep the battery over -22f so it will start the car. It doesn't have to be toasty under there.

 

That makes sense in your garage, but what do you do in the parking lot at work or at a shopping mall?

 

You leave it running locked like everybody else does.

(Added info)
Extreme temperatures require extreme measures. The beauty of the hybrid is that if you leave it on (Ready), it will only run the engine on an "as needed" basis. So the engine isn't just idling non stop. And of course this uses much less fuel. If you set your HVAC to LO the car will use even less fuel and the traction battery will stay warm from the cabin temperature.

When I lived in Sidney Montana, when the temperature dropped below -20f everybody just left their cars running locked anywhere they went if they didn't have a means to plug it in. Stores, shopping malls, at work, visiting friends etc.. It was just what you had to do if you wanted to get back home. Thankfully temperatures like that usually only last for a few days to maybe a few weeks. Once it gets above -20f you can usually shut your car off throughout the day and just plug it in at home. Everybody had engine heaters.