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Intersting info on 5 Speed C59 to 6 Speed C60/C64 Swap

37K views 16 replies 8 participants last post by  9thgen1zz/2zz  
#1 · (Edited)
After perusing the internet looking for info in case I ever wanted to swap a 6 Speed in my Corolla I decided to check out a gear ratio calculator to see what speeds I would be at if I had a 6 Speed transmission (keep in mind the C64 allegedly came in the Celica and compared to the Corolla/Matrix XRS and Pontiac Vibe GT C60, allegedly has a different 6th gear ratio).

Here is some interesting info.

Here are the ratios for a 9th Gen Corolla/Matrix/Vibe C59 trans

1st 3.166
2nd 1.904
3rd 1.310
4th 0.969
5th 0.815
Reverse 3.250
Final 3.941

Here are the corresponding MPH at 2500, 3000, and 6000 RPM with 195/65/15 tires

2500
1st 14
2nd 24
3rd 35
4th 48
5th 57
Reverse 14

3000
1st 17
2nd 29
3rd 43
4th 58
5th 69
Reverse 17

6000
1st 35
2nd 59
3rd 86
4th 116
5th 138
Reverse 34

Here is the same chart for the C64 from the Elise and maybe Celica GT-S (unsure of accuracy)

1st 3.166
2nd 2.050
3rd 1.481
4th 1.166
5th 0.916
6th 0.815
Reverse 3.250
Final 4.529

2500
1st 12
2nd 20
3rd 27
4th 35
5th 44
6th 50
Reverse 12


3000
1st 15
2nd 24
3rd 33
4th 42
5th 53
6th 60
Reverse 15

6000
1st 31
2nd 48
3rd 66
4th 84
5th 107
6th 120
Reverse 30

Same Chart for the Corolla/Matrix XRS and Pontiac Vibe GT C60 with .725 6th Gear

1st 3.166
2nd 2.050
3rd 1.481
4th 1.166
5th 0.916
6th 0.725
Reverse 3.250
Final 4.529

2500
1st 12
2nd 20
3rd 27
4th 35
5th 44
6th 56
Reverse 12


3000
1st 15
2nd 24
3rd 33
4th 42
5th 53
6th 67
Reverse 15

6000
1st 31
2nd 48
3rd 66
4th 84
5th 107
6th 135
Reverse 30

What you can see is that with the C64 you have to rev the engine significantly higher in 6th gear to achieve cruising speeds. Just at 2500 and 3000 RPM you can see a 6 to 7 MPH jump at the same RPM. You would have to hit 3500 RPM just to see 70 MPH with this C64. This is a product of the higher top gear ratio from the C59 combined with the 4.529 final drive. All of the shifting, none of the top end. However by switching the the Corolla/Matrix XRS and Pontiac Vibe GT C60 we are at nearly identical levels as the C59 for cruising speed and RPM yet the gears are spaced closer together exactly like the XRS meaning passing will be easier and there won't be as much load on your clutch when cruising along from a stop as there isnt a large gap from 3-4. All of the shifting and the top end.The shifts while closer together are better spaced (and who doesnt want a 6 speed). Also you can still always skip shifts and maintain nearly identical RPM. The reasoning is you can still get all of the benefits of the 6 speed (faster acceleration, easier shifts, claimed better reliability, better gear choices when passing or downshifting, all while maintaining the 1ZZFE C59 fuel economy).

All in all with this data it shows me that the Corolla/Matrix XRS and Pontiac Vibe C60 is the absolute best swap option for those looking to do a 6 speed swap. Not only are they cheaper for some reason, they are a direct swap using all of your existing parts. Not to mention if you haven't grenaded your C59 you can sell it to fund the C60 swap.

Hope this helps.
 
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#2 ·
Great info, hardtop! It's interesting to see the differences between the 1ZZ-FE engined cars when you'd think they're pretty much just the same guts in different skin.
 
#3 ·
Those 6 speeds are from 2ZZGE cars. I believe only the Celica and MR-S were available with a 1ZZFE 6 Speed combo in the UK.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Corolla XRS turns at 3500 rpm at 70 mph???? You are quoting the C64 transmission for the C60. Do you realize that??? Corolla XRS does not have the C64 in it nor does it turn at 3500 rpm at 70 mph speeds.

XRS C60 is pretty much the same as the one in Celica GTS 1 - 6th and I believe the Matrix XRS has the same gear ratios 1 - 6th. A shorter 6th gear will not do anything for the XRS since top speed is achieved in 5th gear anyway of 138 mph. 1 - 5th are close-ratio gears spaced closely for acceleration, which frees up the 6th gear only to serve as an overdrive gear only. Toyota only used the 0.725:1 sixth gear for all of its models until Lotus came along.

That is why they all share the same code - C60.

It is also inaccurately stated that the Corolla XRS is turning at 3500 rpm at 70 mph. It is actually 3000 rpm and not 3500 rpm. If you want to see, I can make a video for you on this. 3500 rpm gives about ~ 78 mph on the Corolla XRS.

The one that has a shorter 6th gear ratio is actually the C64 6 speed manual transaxle, but that was a special variant developed only for Lotus Elise where Lotus requested a shorter acceleration-oriented 6th gear in order to benefit the car around the race track (even though, it hits the top speed in 5th gear as well), but then again C64 was only for Lotus Elise, which had a 0.815:1 6th gear ratio.

Where Matrix XRS is overall getting the taller gearing from the taller circumference of the wheel/tire combo. Matrix XRS comes with 215/50/17 wheel tire combo, which is a lot taller than the Celica GTS and Corolla XRS near identical 195/55/16 and 205/50/16 wheel tire combo.


Lotus Elise C64 transmission ratios:


1st: 3.166:1

2nd: 2.050:1

3rd: 1.481:1

4th: 1.166:1

5th: 0.916:1

6th: 0.815:1

Reverse: 3.250:1

Final: 4.529:1
 
#7 · (Edited)
Notice that I used several caveats in my post including that different sources listed different ratios and that I had not verified the 100% truth.

Regardless if they are the same then the second part of the post stands true.

The overall point was to dismiss the rumor that the C60 is a useless swap into the 1ZZFE cars.

Also tire circumference on the respective car doesn't matter. All those numbers are achieved using the 195/65/15 tire and respective transmission only. Those are not factory numbers except maybe the C59 numbers.

Also remember most speedometers are inaccurate and get more inaccurate as speed increases. At 70MPH on the speedo the car is probably closer to 67-68 MPH without error. I know based on mile markers mine is slightly inaccurate on all my cars.
 
#5 · (Edited)
It appears that all C60 trannies already have a 0.725:1 6th gear ratio, as used in:

* Toyota Matrix XRS 2003-2006
* Pontiac Vibe GT 2003-2006
* Toyota Corolla
* Toyota Celica 2000-2005
* Toyota MR2 Roadster/Spyder 2003-2007

The 0.815 6th gear is found in C64 trannies as used in:

* Toyota Corolla XRS (USA), 2005-2006
* Toyota Celica with the 2ZZ-GE engine, 2000-2005 (not UK)
* Toyota Corolla Sportivo (Australia)
* Toyota Corolla TS (Europe)
* Toyota Corolla Compressor (Europe)

* Toyota Corolla Fielder Z Aero Tourer (Japan)
* Toyota Corolla Runx Z Aero Tourer (Japan)
* Lotus Elise (North America/UK) (mid engine application), 2004-present
* Lotus Exige (US/UK) (mid engine application), 2005-present

0.815 6th gear also in C65/C65M:

* 2003-2007 Toyota MR2 Spyder (JP) (manual mid-engine application)
* 2003-2007 Toyota MR2 Spyder (US/UK/JP) (SMT mid-engine application)


0.725:1 6th gear set is available for C64 and C65/C65M:

http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product_info.php?products_id=1156

http://www.britishspeed.com/forum/s...-drive-shaft-6th-gear-Replacement-Step-by-step-with-pics...&p=118924#post118924
 
#6 · (Edited)
I am not sure if that is accurate though.

It does not seem consistent with the fact that my car turns at 3000 rpm cruising around 70 mph and also the fact that C64 code has never been synonymous with Celica GTS or Corolla XRS. I have always seen C60 being used in specs and documentation for XRS and GTS. Whenever you see C64, generally will always see people talking about Lotus Elise.

This is the first time I have read that my XRS actually has the C64 gearbox and not the C60.

Plus I am not sure why Toyota would want to give Corolla XRS and Celica GTS an acceleration-oriented 6th gear when it is going to be useless as 5th gear at 8400 rpm is way beyond the 138 mph top speed. In the Elise, it makes sense since it is a pure-bred track car.

Not that it matters to me since it makes no difference. I am only trying to get to the facts of this so that people are informed correctly.


It appears that all C60 trannies already have a 0.725:1 6th gear ratio, as used in:

* Toyota Celica 2000-2005
* Toyota Corolla
* Toyota Matrix XRS 2003-2006
* Pontiac Vibe GT 2003-2006
* Toyota MR2 Roadster/Spyder 2003-2007.

The 0.815 6th gear is found in C64 trannies as used in:

* Toyota Celica with the 2ZZ-GE engine, 2000-2005 (not UK)
* Toyota Corolla Sportivo (Australia)
* Toyota Corolla TS (Europe)
* Toyota Corolla Compressor (Europe)
* Toyota Corolla XRS (USA), 2005-2006
* Toyota Corolla Fielder Z Aero Tourer (Japan)
* Toyota Corolla Runx Z Aero Tourer (Japan)
* Lotus Elise (North America/UK) (mid engine application), 2004-present
* Lotus Exige (US/UK) (mid engine application), 2005-present

0.815 6th gear also in C65/C65M:

* 2003-2007 Toyota MR2 Spyder (JP) (manual mid-engine application)
* 2003-2007 Toyota MR2 Spyder (US/UK/JP) (SMT mid-engine application)


0.725:1 6th gear set is available for C64 and C65/C65M:

http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product_info.php?products_id=1156

http://www.britishspeed.com/forum/s...-drive-shaft-6th-gear-Replacement-Step-by-step-with-pics...&p=118924#post118924
 
#9 ·
Hi, very old thread but thought I'd try and ask anyway. I have a 2010 Matrix with the 2ZR-FE and 5 speed. I'm wanting to swap a 6 speed into it but I'm unsure which 6 speed will fit the best, if any. I'm pretty confident that it can be done but I'm unsure of how. I'm needing help to put a list together for parts that I will require to get it swapped. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
#11 ·
The shifter shaft is on the outside of the transmission. Corolla shifter cables are short. You will need to relocate the shifter shaft to use the corolla shifter cable or use the celica shifter cables.
 
#14 ·
Went away from the Celica transmission as it was going to be too complicated. But to my understanding the matrix 6speed is the same location of the shifter shaft as the corolla. Is this correct? Also is there a difference in the length of the axle shafts from the 6speed to the 5speed?.
Thanks again
 
#15 ·
Went away from the Celica transmission as it was going to be too complicated. But to my understanding the matrix 6speed is the same location of the shifter shaft as the corolla. Is this correct? Also is there a difference in the length of the axle shafts from the 6speed to the 5speed?.
Thanks again
Yes the matrix and corolla shifter shaft locations are the same. No modification needed for install or to work with the corolla/matrix.