Something is up. My 2009 SE V6, gets about 25 city and 28 hwy.

 

Yeah I get low 20's city and right about 30 hwy.


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Yeah don't get me wrong for 18 years as a first car I was amazed which how many people have the nerve to buy the same car and expect another 20+ years again. But alas my MPG being 13-15 lately which it's currently at 14.2 mpg and dropping is too hard to accept in this day and age. It's the perfect options I wanted a V6 this time to get the best Camry possible in the design I envied for past 7 years. I even went through Toyota Finance at a Toyota Dealership for 1.9% finance and got the car for $19.999 which only 2 Camry's around the same mileage and same color was available. The first one sold the next day after my test drive in PA. Really regretting that right now.

So think if you drove for 18 years seeing a car that has ABS, traction control, break assist, variable transmission, and the HP that surpassed a Supra back in the 90s that suppose to have better gas mileage from a 4 Cylinder to a 6 Cylinder and then find out your gas mileage 13 city and 16 MPG average on the HWY. It just keeps dropping and you can't do anything about it. The dealer goes and tells you oh that's normal and nothing is wrong here.

All I want is to have what everyone is having on a Camry. Reliable Family car that is economical and safe to drive (19-28 EPA would be a dream come true right about now).

 

Seems abnormally low and if the tank avg shows that I wonder why the dealer would just dismiss it. I wonder if they drove it for a week if they'd notice any different mpg. And my 3.5 only gets around 18 mpg city and around 25 highway. So I average 20mpg which is pretty subpar IMO and I baby it too.

 

Its pretty much on basis that nothing came back on my diagnostic's check on CEL and the open ended variables on MPG. Ok fine I can understand that but I saw them put 3 miles before I left the garage is what gets me. They didn't even drive it for a few minutes yet I was there for over and hour.

Toyota Customer care can't do anything else but recommend me to have it checked by a personal mechanic because the dealer will keep charging me if I'm not 100% sure what is causing it which wouldn't they be interested in keeping their reputation by thoroughly checking the car by test driving it themselves longer?

160 point inspection is not sounding reliable at all to me now. Did no one notice the MPG meter on the car the whole time it was inspected? Given its an estimation but 16 mpg on route 130 wouldn't raise any flags something is going on here? Seeing how drastic the MPG drop on every fuel up is strange enough symptom.

 

I'd take it to another dealer. That's certainly low unless you are in a lot of stop and go traffic.

What tires are on there? Inflate them to 35. Probably wouldn't hurt to change the oil with some Mobil 1 0w-20 and see if that helps. Does the car drive fine, no hesitation?

Btw, I wouldn't entirely rely on the computer MPG readout. I see you're using Fuelly, so why not fill up the car all the way and see what happens over the next 2 fillups?

 

All 4 tires are Michelin Energy 215/60-16 (all seasonal tires 35psi no low tire pressure light). Oil change and air filter was checked out by my mechanic and all seem normal to him (Carfax original dealership done it at 25,584 OM). Due to the lifetime powertrain warranty with Toyota Liberty I can't get regular maintenance done anywhere else (Includes Oil Changes). As for trying another dealership I could go to the original Champion Toyota dealership 3 miles away from me where my first Camry 95 LE purchased from but going to have to wait since I already committed to 2 fuel injection cleanings and MPG inspections from my local personal mechanic. Just in case they try to charge me for inspecting it.

As for driving as I'm gliding (coasting) slightly downhill it does feel like my car is downshifting by itself. Kind of a tug feel and then slows down but doesn't happen all the time kind of intermittent.

 

Is "injection cleaning" the same as THROTTLE BODY (TB) cleaning?

....if not I'd check that possibility. (The TB is the butterfly valve in modern engines that adjusts the amount of air "injected" into the air intake....unlike the old carb that adjusted both air AND fuel.)

 

Doesn't sound right to me. My '09 LE 3.5 averages 25-26 consistently with a 75/25% highway/city cycle where much of the highway is very heavy commuting traffic.

 

Yep had the personal Mechanic check that as well and he said the TB was clean. I been reading up on low gas mileage articles for at least over a month. Along with forums about low gas mileage and not finding anything that really helps.

As for HWY traffic it was clear on I-95 Southbound at night 8pm so no traffic. Other times the same since I travel during my days off. Did a trip that same day the fuel injection cleaning was done to push out the carbon build up and was driving at least 40 minutes.

 

mileage is horrible; something WRONG

My 09 V6 mpg is 26 everyday 30+ highway; 33 highway if 93 Octane.

Look in the avalon forum (link below) going on right now ...... same engine; heavier car and they all get better than you unless it's a lead foot problem:

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/156-3rd-generation-2005-2012/478161-gas-mileage.html

Something is really wrong with your car.

See if ECU can be reset. I think all you have to do is disconnect battery terminals plus one other step.

Good luck

 

Could be a defective thermostat or O2 sensor. Even when defective, you might not see an error code(s) or CEL.

 

As for driving with a lead foot, I feather my gas pedal and coast and keep around 1500-2000 rpm at 30-35 mph in 10-15 miles of driving per day. I never floor it and have yet to press the accelerator pedal to the floor in 20 years of driving. The pedal goes no further than 1-1.5 inward hence the rpms never going past 2000. I'll admit I had it at 3000 RPM once merging on the Roosevelt Blvd but that was it. If I had to do that then most likely I wouldn't try at all but that's how Philly driving is everyone speeds up to hit you and don't care. This is the worst driving city I've seen between 3000 miles of living in NYC, CALI, and working in NJ. My only 3 accidents in 20 years of driving was here in Philly and people hitting me at a stop or ahead of them driving into me in a angle inward invading my lane from the left hitting my gas tank and totaling my driver side up to the front tire. Lady was too busy looking behind her not judging her overshot from a merger in hitting me.

As for the O2 sensor or thermostat not too sure because everyone keeps telling me their fine. I've yet to remove them myself and see but I'll ask my mechanic next time to remove them when I'm there.

 

Hi i also have a 2011 v6 mine is the se (bought on the 7/16/13) and i do about 90-95% city and im getting 15 mpg. Im very disappointed but i still love it very much.My 20 year old van gets 12 mpg with a bad 02 sensor i have yet to change. Im a mechanic and driving the car slow isn't always a good thing it can lead to a unhealthy level of carbon deposit. When im in the city im revving at 15-1800 rpm. But every once in a while mainly in the highway ill give my cars a good revving. But on the camry i have yet to past 4000 rpm. I plan on going on a small 3 hour road trip this month i will run techron chevron 20 ounce when the tank is empty put it in and them fill it up i also use mobil 93 only in all my cars. I plan on giving the camry a good run down.See with cars it doesn't really matter how fast your going as long as you dont get there too fast. Thats what hurts the engine. However with a fuel additive you should slame on the gas a few time on the highway to put a good load to clean up the fuel system. Hope this helps

 

Seems like you would have to drive like a race car driver to get that MPG. Maybe the car is in "limp" mode?

 

Well i Push the heck out of my car every once in a while just to fool around with exhaust notes and teach some kids a lesson.

I get ~20+ miles per gallon....thats pushing it down the freeway on ramps and just cruising by people at 70mph. ...and Im usually pushing it past the "speed limit" drivers that drive in the left lane.

On a conservative tank 50/50 city/highway....i can push 22-24 mpg

Long trips i can push 30+ mpg.... 65-80mph

So there seems to be something wrong with his car to get such low milage. :/

 

Have you calibrated your UltraGauge? It is insanely accurate once calibrated.

Here is my suggestion to you.

Run the car all the way until E (around 15 gallons give or take) then fill it up all the way. On your UltraGauge clear all your trips, and previous readings. Find a stretch of highway that has a mile marker for at least 3 consecutive miles and go there.

Verify that your trip meter/odometer is accurate when compared against the mile marker. If it isn't (highly unlikely) then that may be part of the problem. Go to the calibration (located under vehicle setup in the main menu) of the UltraGauge and calibrate the correct mileage calculation if it isn't accurate (both my cars needed no calibration). Once that is set run the car all the way to E again and fill it up. While still in the gas station after fill up calibrate the UltraGauge by entering the exact amount of fuel you filled up with. After that is complete enter the fuel fill up in UltraGauge and reclear everything like before (trips, run time, mpg). And run to E and fill up once again. Again while still at the gas station calibrate the fuel used by entering exactly what was used at the pump.

From now on the UltraGauge is calibrated and will not really need another adjustment. Now that your UltraGauge is calibrated you have a real time look at the fuel economy of the vehicle. This can help you to adjust your driving habits. If the numbers show that you are actually in the 20's then you are good. If not then go ahead and start observing your catalytic converter temps, 02 and A/F readings, and fuel trim numbers. This can point you in the direction of your problem (defective MAF, sensor, coil, plugged cat, etc.)

If you send me a PM I can give you step by step tips on setting up the Ultragauge. Mine is unbelievably accurate after setup and helps me to keep my Camry in the high 20's in the city and mid 30's on the highway far exceeding the EPA numbers.

 

Ultra Gauge Pending Trouble Code Popped

Just got another Fuel Injection Cleaning done and this popped up on UG OBDII meter- P0301 & P0175 Trouble Codes as Pending. Not sure what I should do next. Should I tell the Dealership about this and have it serviced and take a risk on $119.99 Diagnostic's Check again charge or just wait till the CEL comes up on the car?

P0301 Code - Cylinder #1 Misfire

Technical Description

Cylinder #1 Misfire Detected
What does that mean?

A P0301 code means that the the car's computer has detected that one of the engine's cylinders is not firing properly. In this case it's cylinder #1.
Symptoms

Symptoms may include:

• <LI itxtNodeId="57" itxtHarvested="0">the engine may be harder to start <LI itxtNodeId="56" itxtHarvested="0">the engine may stumble / stumble, and/or hesitate
• other symptoms may also be present

Causes

A code P0301 may mean that one or more of the following has happened:

• <LI itxtNodeId="66" itxtHarvested="0">Faulty spark plug or wire <LI itxtNodeId="65" itxtHarvested="0">Faulty coil (pack) <LI itxtNodeId="64" itxtHarvested="0">Faulty oxygen sensor(s) <LI itxtNodeId="63" itxtHarvested="0">Faulty fuel injector <LI itxtNodeId="62" itxtHarvested="0">Burned exhaust valve <LI itxtNodeId="61" itxtHarvested="0">Faulty catalytic converter(s) <LI itxtNodeId="60" itxtHarvested="0">Running out of fuel <LI itxtNodeId="59" itxtHarvested="0">Poor compression
• Defective computer

Possible Solutions

If there are no symptoms, the simplest thing to do is to reset the code and see if it comes back.
If there are symptoms such as the engine is stumbling or hesitating, check all wiring and connectors that lead to the cylinders (i.e. spark plugs). Depending on how long the ignition components have been in the car, it may be a good idea to replace them as part of your regular maintenance schedule. I would suggest spark plugs, spark plug wires, distributor cap, and rotor (if applicable). Otherwise, check the coils (a.k.a. coil packs). In some cases, the catalytic converter has gone bad. If you smell rotten eggs in the exhaust, your cat converter needs to be replaced. I've also heard in other cases the problems were faulty fuel injectors.





P0175 OBD-II Trouble Code

Technical Description

System Too Rich (Bank 2)
What does that mean?

Basically this means that an oxygen sensor in bank 2detected a rich condition (too little oxygen in the exhaust). On V6/V8/V10 engines, Bank 2 is the side of the engine that doesn't have cylinder #1.
Note: This DTC is very similar to P0172, and in fact your vehicle may show both codes at the same time.
Symptoms

You will more than likely not notice any drivability problems, although there may be symptoms such as a misfire.
Causes

A code P0175 may mean that one or more of the following has happened:

• <LI itxtNodeId="46" itxtHarvested="0">The MAF (Mass Air Flow) Sensor is dirty or faulty. Note: The use of "oiled" air filters can cause the MAF to become dirty if the filter is over-oiled <LI itxtNodeId="45" itxtHarvested="0">There could be a vacuum leak.
• There could be a fuel pressure or delivery problem

Possible Solutions

Possible solutions include:

• <LI itxtNodeId="52" itxtHarvested="0">Inspect all vacuum and PCV hoses, replace if necessary <LI itxtNodeId="51" itxtHarvested="0">Clean the MAF sensor. Consult your service manual for it's location if you need help. I find it's best to take it off and spray it with electronics cleaner or brake cleaner. Make sure you are careful not to damage the MAF sensor, and make sure it's dry before reinstalling <LI itxtNodeId="50" itxtHarvested="0">Inspect fuel lines for cracks, leaks, or pinches <LI itxtNodeId="49" itxtHarvested="0">Check the fuel pressure at the fuel rail <LI itxtNodeId="48" itxtHarvested="0">Check the fuel injectors, they may be dirty. Use fuel injector cleaner or get them professionally cleaned/replaced.
• Check for an exhaust leak before the first oxygen sensor (this is unlikely to cause the problem, but it is possible)

 

The mileage is unusually low but there are issues to explain:
a) check the tire pressures and keep at 35 psi. The low pressure light suggests that you have a flat. It isn't at issue. here. Actually check the pressure.
b) did you check the air filter?
c)explain how you are calculating the mileage. Putting $30 worth of fuel in doesn't help out. At what point are you calling the tank 'full'?

 

Well....this is interesting...

There are a few things YOU can check without any harm (unless someone more knowledgeable than me says NOOOOOOoooo!)

If cyl 1 and 2 are up-front and accessible (...unless cylinders 1 and 2 are at the rear, which can be difficult to access on the 6 cylinder engine, from what I've read and come to understand)...

You can switch spark plugs between cyl 1 and 2 and see if the codes change accordingly...
If they do not...
You can switch ignition coils between cyl 1 and 2 and see if the codes change accordingly...
If they do not...
The wires/cable to the coil #1 may be bad...

The rich mix may be related to a clogged PCV valve...easy to check, I think (...it is on the 4/not sure about the 6)
a pcv valve should LOOK clean with a rattle not sludgy/gunky with a rattle that alone does not ensure a properly working valve...

I hope this give you some hope...

 

Take it to the dealership. You have proof to backup the poor mileage claims.

 

Extremely Fast Dropping MPG while Idling a few seconds

Ok I'm starting to believe that the issue is the idling. I found a Camry 2005 SE that had this issue 10/12/2009 off the Tundra forum website.
Seems when I idle literally within a few seconds of pulling out from park it drops from 16 to 15.8 then 15.7 after 5-10 seconds then 15.5 MPG within 30 seconds. Within less than a minute or half idling at a red light I lose .2-.3 mpg. It drops after fuel injection services the next day from 20 MPG to 15 mpg the first time. Second time it dropped from 20 mpg again to 17 mpg that morning then by night 15-16 mpg. When I fill up gas I seem to get a boost to 22-23 mpg then drops like a ton of bricks by that evening to 16-18 mpg.

Does your MPG flux that rapidly on your dash Tank Average? I feel like a bomb is ticking off on my MPG when I wait for 30 seconds initial warm up it drops down like .3-.5 mpg by the time I hit the road from driving down off my parking lot. Not sure if this is normal.

 

Drive your car normally, floor it. Does the car pull normally or stumble? If you're driving like a grandma, there's the potential that you'll never notice a problem at higher RPMs. Beat on the car for a little, it will probably like it. All engines need a little wide open throttle once in awhile.. usually it blows out some crud.

Also, why did you get a V6 if you barely ever go over 3000rpm?

Something tells me absolutely nothing is wrong with the car. The misfire codes are probably from the fuel injection service. When you're throwing cleansing agents into an engine, it's going to misfire a few times. They should go away.

 

It accelerates smoothly no sounds or stumbling from the transmission. I got the V6 because my friends who had push to start talked me into it plus the color and options just fit the criteria of what I was looking for as my next car. They were right though the engine is quitter and smoother on a V6. The EPA rating on this 2010 Camry XLE V6 was better than my 95 Camry LE 4 cylinder.

Your right about the Ultra Gauge CEL pending lights. After I reset the ECU from the negative battery terminal the codes disappeared now. Only thing is being the car likes to hang around 13-15 mpg city and never seen it pass 16-20 mpg on I-95 going 55-60 mph average seems kind of odd. With tier 1 gas from shell or exxon and non-tier Sunoco I should of gotten mid to high 20s MPG driving.

 

I'm happy to see the codes have gone away...good.
As for your MPG...zmon and gdanaher have pointed out that the gauge may not be the most accurate way to measure MGP...especially when measuring differences less than 1mpg

Have you checked MPG by simple calculation of miles driven divided by gallons added to the tank?
....and done so after 2 tankfuls of the same driving...e.g. all city/no highway...all highway (non-stop @ x mph, =/- 5mph for 3 hours)?
For all the effort made to discover something wrong, you might gather some data this way if you haven't already...just to be sure of the performance before drawing any more conclusions.

 

I read on some other forums under RAV4 that - "Your typical "fuel injector cleaning" is nothing but running some fluid through the fuel system (or manifold) and is a super-money maker for mechanics and dealerships.
A proper cleaning involves removing them, putting them in an ultrasonic vat, and then flow testing them. It's not expensive, but it is time consuming."
Also read on this forum - "Fuel injectors can be quite blocked giving very poor combustion and not give a CEL and the gas mileage / fuel economy can be terrible because of this. Clean air filter, Toyota say 27,000 miles between changes
Fuel pressure? If the regulator is failing then lower fuel pressure gives poorer atomisation = poor fuel economy.
This is the same outcome as blocked injectors or a blocked fuel filter."

Does any of these 2 suggestions sound right to you guys?

 

I think the real question here is what part of the car can effect MPG by 6-7 PG city or 6-7 HWY mileage. I'm seeing O2 sensors can affect 40% drop in fuel economy on a website. But I had 2 Fuel Injection Flushes from front engine area and cleaner dropped in the gas tank but not seeing much results still from them.

Because looking at the difference of drop were looking at 25%to 33% drop in MPG from EPA averages which most people are claiming to get even higher out there. I was told that Fuel Injection Cleaning services eventually fix all areas of MPG but it's not showing after 2 tries now.