Do they weigh the same?

 

They are likely differently weighted (get a 5s pulley for the Celica application without balance shafts if you do go that direction). I'd worry about pully drive diameters - but those should be VERY similar, if not the same.

-Charlie

 

Yeah the weights differ by about .4 lbs.
The 3s one has counterweights in the back. The 5s ones just don't have the counterweights and are neutral. But the 5s without balance shafts use the same one as the 3s.
The diameters should be the same according to the rockauto tech specs. I did have the chance to compare the 2 different parts side by side though and the diameter seemed to be exactly the same. The only difference was the weights.

I was wondering if it would matter running one that didn't have the weights really. I already have poly mounts so I get a lot more vibration, so that wouldn't bother me. Mostly just curious from a longevity standpoint.

Left is the 3S one and right is the 5S one

 

3S and 5S (non balance cartridge) balancers have different part numbers that don't cross over but they look identical to me. Running the balance shaft version could have bad effects long term only way to know is try.

 

Yeah I'm concerned mainly if it'll have bad effects on the motor. Though I have polyurethane front and rear mounts and a torque damper so I feel like my motor gets extra vibrations anyways lol.
Hoping someone has firsthand experience at being janky like me or extended knowledge on engine balancing.

I may just try my luck seeing as some guys delete the 5s balance shafts for power and run the non balanced pulley and it seems fine(?)

 

If the weight is hard mounted to the crank, it is likely for NVH reasons (like adding a bigger flywheel). The rubber isolation for the accessory drive pulleys is there to protect the accessory system from excess wear.

Like I said, I'd run the non-balance shaft version if they are (nearly) the same price... It might help with putting a (bit) of power down with the lighter pulley if that interests you. The total extra possible wear is likely very small.

-Charlie

 

Yeah the difference between them is just a metal weight ring attached on the backwide where it's recessed.

The main reason I'd considered 5S pulleys is cause there's double the available options for significantly cheaper from comparable brands (also with comparable limited lifetime warranties).

My main concern is just reliability and effect on the motor/ crankshaft though yeah.

If I could separate the weight from the 3s and just buy the cheaper 5s ones and slap it on em it would be a much easier choice though haha.

 

Does anyone have any recommendations on brands for the harmonic balancers actually?
The ones available for the 3s from cheapest to most expensive are skp, atp, pioneer and dorman, at least on rockauto. Otherwise there's eBay ones but they all look like they're the unbalanced kind

 

Yea OEM that's it. Fabest shows up a lot when looking at parts from Amayama they'll show them as lower cost alternative to original so maybe they are decent.

 

OEM is just out of the price range at the moment, need to replace my balancer though because the rubber is deteriorating to the point it's noticable unfortunately.
OEM stuff from the US is around 500$, I had my buddy at Toyota check, and it's just cause it's discontinued do any stock left is pretty pricey.

Amayama probably a bit cheaper but still close to 200$.

Sub 100$ is ideal at the moment, as long as it lasts til the next timing belt change it's fine.
Doing it at the same time as valve stem seals, water pump, timing belt etc.

Most aftermarket stuff is from China but dorman and atp have limited lifetime warranties is all.

 

13408-74020 is reasonable on Amayama as you say but almost certain it will come back NLA. Dorman has a wide range of quality from decent to absolute garbage.

 

Yeah even the amayama one is just slightly out of my allocated budget at the moment after shipping unfortunately. But yeah chances are it'll be unavailable.
Dorman ones are the ones in the picture I had sent prior actually. I had the chance to check them out at AutoZone and they seemed decent. I've had poor luck with dorman exhaust stuff though haha.

Still weighing my options, at least I was able to get an aisin timing kit, too bad they don't include a crank pulley though

 

Are we sure it's discontinued? 13408-74010 is the current part number (superseding the 13408-74020) and all the Toyota websites are still showing active. Errors do happen, but it might still be made.

 

Not 100% certain but for both part numbers I hate my friend at Toyotas parts department check and they both came as discontinued, though there's stock left. It's all just very very expensive unfortunately. Could've been an error but again I'm not 100% certain.

Normally I try to get OEM or OEM equivalent but this is a case of not enough allocated funds and has to get changed asap unfortunately. I also have to get a new axle as well soon, everything is snowballing unfortunately 😅

 

How bad is your current part? I've yet to see one completely separate but have seen a couple that wobbled horribly.

 

It's currently wobbling something fierce, and is pretty noticeable at idle. Trying to get to it before it does eventually separate and cause issues haha.

 

Anything Dorman is a turd.

 

Unfortunately aside from the astronomically price oem stuff, the aftermarket is limited to chinese stuff, at least for the 3S. The 5S has a bit more options still. Part of the reason I inquired, but at the very least dorman has a limited lifetime warranty lol. My options are severely limited due to time and money unfortunately. I'm sitting on it partially though in the event I'm able to allocate enough to try my luck with amayama.

 

5S crank pulley balance shaft version doesn't look like it has that much less mass maybe you won't notice. You're right it looks like they hit the pulley with a coat of paint even the where the belts have contact. Dumb. You will be disappointed with aftermarket balancers, bonding rubber to metal is quite difficult it turns out that's why aftermarket mounts are so awful.

 

I believe according to dorman, the weight difference is about .3 lbs between the two, it's just the 3S one is biased to one side, since it's to balance the crank which makes sense. Tho yeah might be negligible since people delete 5s balance shafts, essentially creating the same effect.

And yeah my experience with aftermarket motor mounts has been...less than stellar. It's why I opted for polyurethane mounts where I could, 2 years without issues, except more engine vibration/ noise.

 

Thing about balance shaft delete engines is I haven't seen what happens to them after extended miles.

 

That's been my main concern yeah, because that would be essentially what I'm doing. Granted I don't drive my car too often but still a concern given my car is reaching 200k pretty soon
Crank wobble the last thing I'd want

 

Haven't had luck on amayama for 3s stuff as expected haha..
Greatly considering 5S stuff now, just still skeptical on if it will effect engine longevity. If i manage to get a 5s one from amayama I'm sure it would be better than the dorman i can get from rockauto durability wise, not sure what effect itll have on the motor though..

 

So I was talking to a fellow who deleted his 5sfe balance shafts (essentially making his motor around what I'd be doing, no balance shafts and neutral weighted crank pulley) around 7 years ago according to him, which gives me hope for using a 5S balancer. All quite a lot of digging for something that's probably going to end up being negligible haha.

Curious which of the 3S or 5S was a more balanced engine (or had a more balanced crank baseline I guess, without shafts or anything)
They've always felt similar to me, but my judgement is skewed since I have poly mounts and my car rattles a lot anyways 😆

 

Balance shafts are not related to the primary balance of the reciprocating assembly, so unless either the 3 or 5 is externally balanced, the only difference will be increased rotational weight which would really only make it marginally smoother, if anything.

 

The 3S harmonic balancer has some sort of counterweight in the middle of it that the 5S one lacks so I assume it's externally balanced(?) A lot of conflicting information I've been receiving so I apologize for any redunancy also.
Also the 3S balancer/ pulley is .3lbs heavier than the 5S one due to the weights.
The weight itself appears to be a steel ring with a couple holes drilled on one half.

I assume it would be fine though to run a 5S balancer, talking to the fellow on one of the FB groups whose put 85k miles on his 5s with a balancer shaft delete has given me some hope. Since the setup would essentially be the same as me running a 5s balancer/ pulley on my 3s.

Though it makes me curious on which engine is inherently more balanced too, if the 3s is a more balanced engine id probably see even less issues down the road if that makes sense.

Ah it's all so much thinking for such a small problem haha 😆

 

The extra mass is to help it run smoother, since 4 cylinders only fire every 180⁰ and are therefore not smooth like inline 6 or even v8.

 

Well this gives me a bit more confidence to buy a 5S harmonic balancer now, gonna give it a shot and see how it goes 😁

Appreciate all the insight, help and input from everyone!
Time to be a guinea pig 😆

 

Well in light of all the extremely helpful info both here and from some guys in the 5sfe/3sfe performance fb group (and some advice from some toyota tech friends) I've decided to try my luck with a toyota 5sfe harmonic balancer/ crank pulley from amayama.

I'll update to let yall know how it goes when the time comes for me to replace everything (doing water pump, timing belt +tensioner and bearings, valve cover gaskets n seals, and valve stem seals along with the harmonic balancer). Also replacing wheel bearings and axles at the moment haha. Maintenance hit me like a truck all at once as usual.
Thanks again for all the help everyone, hopefully all will go well!

 

Anything that has rubber bonded to metal is junk unless OEM. All of it. My prediction: Amayama will cancel your order.

 

You’re right to want to avoid the Chinese junk. I’ve found nothing good for 2nd gen aftermarket. Especially at this juncture.

definitely try the one for a 5S or even a used one.

Yeah I put in an order for a 5S one thru amayama, luckily much more available than the 3S ones!

Anything that has rubber bonded to metal is junk unless OEM. All of it. My prediction: Amayama will cancel your order.

They cancelled my 3S order, but they have 5S ones available still luckily, order got confirmed after an inventory check so just gotta wait a week or so for shipping now 😁

But yeah I've done my best to use oem stuff where possible, or oem equivalents like denso, aisin, etc. Only stuff I've had to go the chinese route is axles, my transmission mount, and my ignition coil (autozone) when it shredded itself internally (I still kept the original in case I can get it rebuilt). Some gaskets I've gotten fel-pro but I haven't ran into issues with those.

 

5S harmonic balancer off of amayama came in, looks good, the extra weight in the middle that's present on the 3S is the only difference, feels solid and the quality seems better of course than the dormans I checked out at AutoZone. Hopefully it installs fine, I picked up extra woodruff keys just in case, the 3S and 5S have different part numbers for the woodruff keys but are identical in dimension which I thought was funny, so now I have extras 😆

Will update on how it goes install wise when I get around to it.

 

I bet that thing was sitting in a warehouse for decades.

 

I'd still trust it more than the dorman stuff 😆

But it actually feels pretty good, rubber or whatever material is bonded feels fresh still

Amayama still has a handful available too, they're in UAE though, shipped to EU then to NA, tariffs were like 35% for me unfortunately, but still cheaper than buying here by a landslide.

 

5S harmonic balancer off of amayama came in, looks good, the extra weight in the middle that's present on the 3S is the only difference, feels solid and the quality seems better of course than the dormans I checked out at AutoZone. Hopefully it installs fine, I picked up extra woodruff keys just in case, the 3S and 5S have different part numbers for the woodruff keys but are identical in dimension which I thought was funny, so now I have extras 😆

Will update on how it goes install wise when I get around to it.

View attachment 496857 View attachment 496858

I bet that thing was sitting in a warehouse for decades.

The date code on the sticker is May 12, 2025. Toyota doesn't sit on parts like that. They get them from the suppliers based on demand.

 

Got everything installed and noticed pretty much no difference.
Maybe if there was a difference it's cancelled out by the fact that I basically resealed the head while doing my valve stem seals and timing belt stuff.
Also replaced my super worn passenger side motor mount (why is it such a pain 😂).

Appreciate everyone's input, I'll try to remember to make an update in the future to see if there's any noticeable impact down the line.

Some pics
Valve stems were fried

Hammered old balancer together, maybe I'll make a billet one down the line haha.

Need to run some oil with heavy detergents to clean up some of the gunk but it's not that bad for never being opened up before.