If you need it, then get it. This is the only way to adjust camber.

 

Definitely the cheapest and most accessible way for most people, but not the only way.

• Lowering the vehicle will increase negative camber approx 1/2 deg per inch of ride height.
• Strut top mount camber plates allow massive amounts of camber alteration. You can also rotate these inwards towards the firewall to trade 100% negative camber for a 50/50 camber/caster gain.
• Using a screw clamp to move the knuckle as far as physically possible then torquing the bolts to get an extra few points of a degree per bolt.
• Where there is a will, and time, and money; there is a way.

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@John Gi

Front camber on fwd - will never hurt handling, will barely hurt tires if kept around or above -2 degrees, and will really hurt tires and handling if you go under -5 degrees.

I haven't even seen your tires and I'd bet my horse that your inner tread wear was caused by the positive toe. Show a few closeup tread pictures aimed along the tread and I'll tell you what likely caused the wear, I'm 90% sure already though, your front tires in that printout are pointing 1/8th inch inwards, each. This was causing tons of scrubbing of the inner tread blocks, and over many miles the inner side of the tire being scrubbed against the pavement as the tire turns wore it down

With zero toe, the camber amount on that alignment sheet wouldn't cause visible tire wear on street tires after 50,000 miles. MAYBE 1mm inner wear after that distance, but you would likely never see camber wear from -1.5 degrees. I recommend leaving the camber alone, as you will have noticeably worse handling if you try zero it out.

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Right now my I daily drive my car with around -3.5 degrees front camber, and -2 degrees rear camber.

I've ran at least -3 degrees front camber for over the last year straight even in a foot of snow and the whole winter Those snow tires wore evenly and are sitting on my old wheels with essentially no camber wear below the treadbars.

I can go as low as -4.5 degrees camber on the front wheels without rubbing my tires or running out of suspension joint movement.

A little camber doesn't cause excess tire wear with non stanced cars under normal street driving. Toe has so much more effect on tire wear that camber isn't even worth considering as a reason for wear based on that alignment printout.


P.S. You mentioned the tech said he couldn't align it due to worn tie rods, which is kosher; but if he told you that the camber caused the tread wear get a new shop.

EDIT: Looked at the alignment sheet again... Did you pay for only a thrust angle alignment instead of 4 wheel alignment? If not then your tech is possibly lazy and bad at his job, call his manager and ask for a refund or different tech, or swap shops.

Tech decided he didn't want to touch the rear end or deal with breaking loose the adjusting rods; unless he made you aware of this or you only paid for a thrust angle alignment then this is a big deal.

Alignment techs are supposed to adjust the rear thrust angle to zero first and rear toe to spec, instead of trying to compensate the messed up rear end alignment with only a front toe adjustment.. which he managed to not set correctly...

Guys like that piss me off. I'm ranting now but even if you only paid for a thrust angle alignment this guy still managed to be so lazy he couldn't do it right...

 

Thanks. I don't think that I need it now, because they adjusted the left side to spec, but the right side only to the limit of normal.

 

Thanks.

The invoice paperwork only says, "alignment service." It does not specify "four wheel alignment" or "thurst angle alignment;" the printout I attached in my first post says nothing about any of that.

I just called the shop and they generalized that Camry's get a four wheel alignment.

Is there anything I need to do?

 

Camrys do get a 4 wheel alignment, anything with an independent rear suspension does.

Ask for the service manager and tell them you want them to re-aligned to center of oem alignment specs for your car or you want them to give you a refund.

They need to end up re-doing it and correcting the thrust angle by undoing the adjusting nuts and properly centering rear toe, with each tire the same - ignoring camber thrust compensation because the amount of cross camber won't have any affect on handling or wear. Then centering front toe, with each tire the same number or one point off from the other at most.

Watch them and make sure they actually undo the adjusting nuts because guys like this will just push on the tire to get the machine to read its position after they flex the suspension bushings so they don't have to do their job.

If they ask why you think it needs to be re-aligned and give you pushback then ask them why rear end wasn't aligned the first time you paid for it.

If they still give you pushback then it's a whole shop problem with putting out lazy alignments, any service manager should be appalled at their techs doing this; and if at the end of it all they still don't fix it then you should dispute the payment since they didn't provide the service you agreed to pay for - and find a new shop.

Sorry you have to deal with this crap, Good shops are hard to find; good alignment techs even harder.

 

Has this car ever been in a wreck? Do you know if the wheels are in good shape (not bent)?

 

The title is clean. The left front bumper has scratches, the rear bumper on the left is discolored and loose.

 

In the past, when I complained that the rear was not adjusted, all alignment shops said that the rears don't/can't be adjusted.

I don't understand what's wrong. Please advise.

The alignment rack is in the rear of the shop and I can't see what they're doing from the customer area and outside the shop.

On the sheet that they gave me and I posted, there are no specs for thrust angle. Also, I don't see anything out of spec for the rear, just the right cambe at the border of normal.

 

• Toe is adjustable
• Camber is not adjustable
  • Only adjustable via shims and other alignment tools
• Caster is not adjustable
  • Only adjustable via shims and other alignment tools

A "majority" of shops will only adjust for toe for Toyota.

 

Most shops won't adjust anything except toe on any vehicle, a lot of them in my area I've been to even have pricing signs stating they only touch toe. Unless you find a unicorn independent mechanic that will work with you then you basically need to find a race shop to adjust camber and caster on an alignment rack.

In other news my firestone just canceled and refunded my lifetime alignment because they said I use it too much and they don't like having to pay the techs.

Techs got paid 1 hour of 80% warranty rate by firestone along with a more in tips than their regular rate, while firestone hasn't gotten a dime from me. I got 7 or 8 alignments from the shop that was cool with it before the service manager that sold it from a different shop decided to cancel it after telling me I could use it every month if I wanted to. Screw firestone lol.

EDIT: Lol called corporate and politely informed them of what their employee did.. turns out that's not corporate policy to tell customers that they cost the company too much money so they are going to cancel them; and that there is no limit on how many times I can go in.

She said she opened a case with the district manager to review, here's to getting back my lifetime alignments, I'll make sure to tip the techs a few hours worth of the service managers pay and go in more frequently to screw up his bonus cause I'm a vindictive b****, but firestone itself will still never get a dime from me.

@John Gi

There is no spec for thrust angle because cars are not supposed to have a thrust angle other than zero.

Imagine your car has only rear tires and is magically suspended in the front, the thrust angle is the difference in angle that your rear tires are pointing car compared to the centerline of the car front to back.

Normally if the thrust angle isn't zero it means that something was bent, likely from a big pothole or hitting a curb if you haven't been in any accidents. When cars can adjust the direction the rear tires point like ours can, the thrust angle can be non-zero if the direction of the rear tires is not pointed the same amount in or out on each side.

Currently your car's rear tires are pointed inwards with the right rear pointing further inward than the left, this will cause your rear tires to want to steer the car to the right, because they are trying to push the rear end towards the left and rotate it around itself. This is going to mean you will likely have pulling slightly to the right, and likely need to turn your wheel and hold it a bit to the left to drive straight.

Instead of making the rear right tire point forwards the same angle as the left, the tech just made it so the steering wheel points straight ahead, while the rear tires are not pointed evenly ahead, and the front tires are pointed so the left tire is in a good spot, but then didn't set the right tire as he should have if he had corrected the rear in the first place.

Instead what he did is ignore the rear, straighten the steering wheel and lock it in place, then adjust the front tie rods only so that the front of your car is pointing towards the right as well so you have to turn the wheel left to keep the front tires pointed evenly ahead and both the front and the rear of the car going straight.

Those points of a degree might not seem like much, but a -0.04 thrust angle doesn't make for a great alignment, if it was due to damaged parts or a rear end he couldn't loosen (for context: every tech who hasn't been able to get any tie rod loose has told me, they could even lie if they wanted to; the fact he didn't mention the rear is telling of him trying to ignore it. It's impossible to not see if the rear is adjustable. If you are under the car looking at the rear end you literally can not miss the adjusters.) He didn't even try correct it, which is makes it so egregious. And if he's the kind of alignment tech just pushing cars to the extent he didn't try correct the thrust angle of an independent rear suspension (which the shop confirmed they knew camrys had when they told you camrys generally get a 4 wheel alignment???)....then he could had easily fudged those too to get his alignment computer to say ok this is fine and let him do the next car he gets paid for doing.

TLR That's the unnecessarily long reason this is a big deal service and quality wise while not a huge deal in alignment terms if he had actually tried and couldn't get it better.

There is NO reason not to try ZERO the thrust angle of a car with an independent rear suspension, Maybe there are a few cars out there with non adjustable independant rears, but I don't know of any or have ever heard of one - probably because that car company would go out of business.

He wanted to get the next car on the rack for the next dollar in his pocket instead of even bothering to try to do the job right on your car, and probably the rest of them.

Now you get to drive a car with a crooked steering wheel and more likely than not a pull, different steering feel cornering left and right, and more front and rear tire wear than if he had turned his wrenches a few more times.

 

Thanks. I'm begininng to understand the problem.

I omitted the following, which irritates me more. I had a 7 AM appointment, the shop being across town in a shelter-in-place area with not much to do. I was the third car in line. They said it would take "a couple hours" to do the alignment. I should have staying in the customer waiting area to be a thorn in their side (that's my speciality, LOL). Instead, I tried to do errands in the general area. At 11 AM, I asked them to check on the status. They promised to expedite it and got done in about 30 minutes. Mind you, they didn't do a brake inspection, which I asked AND they ignored a previous request NOT to lower the passenger window, which is very difficult to raise.

I asked them WHEN were less busy times/days. They said, "none," because everyone is bringing cars in for work, now that COVID-19 restrictions are easing. They facility looked like a giant parking lot!

 

Alignment racks are a game of juggling cars and commercial shops make tons of basically free money off alignments so they try always keep them filled and go through cars as fast as they possibly can, techs go fast as they can because they're paid a specific hourly rate per car they align, good techs get good at aligning and do them quickly to get paid more and typically bonuses, bad techs cheat the customer and screw the shops reputation to increase their hourly wage.

Thats why I pay commercial shop alignment techs fat tips, it's not just generosity, Im basically trying to bribe them for extra alignment time/custom alignments while not paying the shop for it, just the tech who then gets paid the same amount as two cars and doesn't mind taking his time.

In my experience if service managers know you're waiting in shop for your car instead of being picked up and coming back later they will often put your car above everyone else who dropped theirs off but isn't there yet, and they can just say they're running behind if those people ask; but generally they're told they will be called when it's done with a day it will be done.

Alignment shops will often truly have no openings even when there is like 1 person waiting there because they want to keep the alignment rack filled [BIG cash flow, a busy chain shop can break even on a 50 grand alignment rack in 2-3 months, then every car they run through after is mostly profit.] A queue is the best way to do that. A lot of places try queue up 2-3 days ahead of time worth of booked alignments and get you to schedule appointments they can't keep (overbooking) so they don't end up with the alignment rack empty. They don't care if customers have to wait, cause money. Les Schwab is horrible at this, and most things in general.

So when it comes to alignments if you're the kind of guy who gets more in a year than the average person in their life, then tip the techs, wait in store, and ask how much longer before we get there if you want to really grease that squeaky wheel.

---

Heres how to fix that window problem if the issue is from the track being warped or too tight.

If you unscrew the 6 or 7 screws holding your passenger door panel on and pop the door panel off there will be a 10mm adjusting nut for the top and bottom of the window track on the forward side of the window. With the window halfway down, loosen the top screw by the tweeter speaker until you can move the window down and up easily, then with the window 2 inches from closed with your hand over the top of the window, gently wiggle it while loosening/tighten that adjusting bolt so the window doesn't wiggle and isn't too stiff in the track.

Roll the window down, and you should be able to roll it back up just as easily as when you tightened the adjusting nut when it was closed.

Then screw the door panel back on and enjoy your open windows.

If that doesn't make sense I'll take some pictures for you since I dont have door panels anyway.

 

Thanks.

Photos would be great. Thanks!

I never had this problem with a power window (there are no signs of damage to the door or window, eg from an accident). Only the passenger front window. It almost always will roll down, but either won't respond to either button (driver or passenger side) going up, goes up part ways, or only goes up in 1/2" increments. Could that be an electrical/contact problem, or definitely the track is too tight?

 

I figured out how to remove the door panel. I loosened that top 10mm bolt. The problem persists, but now the switch doesn't work going down all the time. I tried a new driver's side switch, which works with all windows, except the passenger front.

 

Doesn't sound like the track is a problem but the connection, I'd check the wiring to the passenger window motor.

Make sure the passenger door harness that plugs into the passenger door controls doesn't have pulled out contacts or loose/broken wires, and the ground strap by the passenger side tweeter is clean and tight. The driver's door controls require the passenger door controls to be functional for them to work remotely.

Have you had any issues with locking or unlocking the passenger door from the driver's lock?

After that you'd want to start at the window motor with the drivers side switch taped down and just go along the door wiring and harness plugs/connectors with a multimeter until you find where the connection dies.

 

I forgot to add that they did NOT test drive the car after doing the alignment, because they were "busy." However, I told them that I WILL bring it back if it doesn't seem right. Yesterday, I hit a curb with my right front tire when going into a parking lot. This morning, the car intermittently pulled to the left.

 

Lol I can't tell from your post if you intentionally hit the curb so it doesn't seem right or if it was just convenient timing.

Did the service manager ever try give you a reason why they didn't touch the rear after he said most camrys have adjustable rears?

 

I accidentally hit the curb; I have no interest in damaging a car that I've put more than $1k worth of repairs into during the past three weeks of ownership. As I like to say, I might be crazy, but I'm not dumb, LOL.

No one gave an explanation as to why they didn't adjust the rear.

 

Well hello fello crazy person

Hopefully nothing was damaged or bent, I've clipped or drove off more than a few curbs with my right rear tire when the car turns more than I meant it to pulling out of parking lots and while my rears were already bent.

I dont think I ever ended up bending something so bad it couldn't be aligned, even when I hit a curb dead on with the right rear tire because the I steered too tightly around it, and the tire drove up, over, then slammed down 6 inches I dont think my rear alignment was off.

 

Just thinking out loud: could they have meant, "the rear adjusters are too rusted" when they said to you, "the rear is not adjustable"?

 

I didn't see any rust.

 

2000 Camry LE 5S-FE engine with 181k miles. I got the car two weeks ago and noticed excessive wear on the inside of the right front tires. I took the car in for an alignment, but the shop said that they couldn't do it because the tie rods were bad. All inner and outer tie rods were loose by my inspection, so I replaced all of them* yesterday, then took the Camry in for an alignment today. I attached the results.

Importantly, the right front camber is at the limit of normal, as is the right rear. Before I knew about camber kits, my Tercel needed one per the alignment shop. A $190 alignment (from a different shop) became a $350 job with an overpriced camber kit ($80 from them vs. $20 on Amazon).

I'm thinking about buying front and rear camber kits (about $20 each on Amazon), then installing them myself, then taking the car back for an alignment, which the shop said that they will re-align at no extra charge. This would be preventive maintenance, as I expect the camber to get worse over time. Thoughts about that?

Although the shop is 4 miles from my house, I want everything as close as possible to normal as possible if I'm going to do a DIY camber kit install. Today, on the way to the shop, the car pulled to the left A LOT, though I had no trouble driving it. Last night, I noticed that both front tires pointed to the left, so I adjusted them to point straight. I got pretty close (.27' and .22' with .10' being upper limits of normal). I didn't see any DIY threads on alignment in Toyotanation (TN), though there are several on YouTube. Anyone know of a TN thread on point?

* I saved $532. The alignment shop's estimate would use O'Reilly's MasterPro EV301, which have a lifetime warranty, and cost me $26 at O'Reilly, $97 for each tie rod on the alignment shop's estimate).

Do Not get camber kit even as last resort. I had one instaled back around Y2K and it would not hold alighnment for 6 months wore tires out constantly, tell them to just get it as close as they can. and get a print out to make sure every thing else is OK. By the way that wear is from your toe in/out, not your camber

 

Camber kits are fine, you just need to get one with a locking washer to make sure it's not being held in place by friction alone - the washers have a peg that goes over the cam and prevents it from rotating in the bore.

Modern camber bolts come with nyloc pinch nuts that hold friction extremely well.

I have only camber bolts in my knuckles and my camber doesn't change, and I beat the living **** out of my car and suspension.

The camber bolts that used to slip were the cam only bolts with friction nuts which would basically change camber over a 10mph speed bump.